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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:56 am Post subject: |
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The problem is not Russ but Pelinka.
He was the one that traded 4 good role players and a FRP for Westbrook.
Russ wasn't the one breaking up a championship team.
Pelinka is a horrible manager but probably was a great agent. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4464
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: |
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laker50 wrote: | The problem is not Russ but Pelinka.
He was the one that traded 4 good role players and a FRP for Westbrook.
Russ wasn't the one breaking up a championship team.
Pelinka is a horrible manager but probably was a great agent. |
Yea, that’s it in a nutshell. Vogel some blame sure, probably won the championship in spite of him more than because of him tho he deserves credit as the head coach since blame is given for losing.
Then Russ has some blame as do health of AD and LeBron…but the major prob last year and I predict this year as well is lack of options as backup SF/PF with too many back court sized players with non-starting caliber Centers trying to force a situation that allows AD to play PF. Those problems, the major reason for missing playoffs is roster construction by Rob. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40208 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | zambia wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | He played well in his minutes last night. Kings obviously have a bad defensive team so the Suns should be a better barometer in a few days. Good to see him not just standing on offense and being involved in more movement. |
How did Reaves do last night, against the Kings bad defense. |
He’s playing literally a different role with Ham. Seems they are trying to make him a primary ball handler. |
I'm not sure what they are planning with him because Schroder was out. So when he returns, I imagine Reaves' role is no longer primary ball handler. How does Dennis slot in next to Bev? Where does Lonnie fit in the mix? Reaves's role will be in flux for a bit, I think. |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10723
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I prefer Reaves as primary ballhandler far more than Beverley, that's for sure.
I have no idea when and where Lonnie Walker is going to play.
Russ
Nunn
Lebron
AD
Jones
Schroder
Beverley
Reaves
JTA (?)
Bryant |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:16 am Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | zambia wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | He played well in his minutes last night. Kings obviously have a bad defensive team so the Suns should be a better barometer in a few days. Good to see him not just standing on offense and being involved in more movement. |
How did Reaves do last night, against the Kings bad defense. |
He’s playing literally a different role with Ham. Seems they are trying to make him a primary ball handler. |
I'm not sure what they are planning with him because Schroder was out. So when he returns, I imagine Reaves' role is no longer primary ball handler. How does Dennis slot in next to Bev? Where does Lonnie fit in the mix? Reaves's role will be in flux for a bit, I think. |
Way too many short guards. This roster is still screaming for a trade. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there |
By Scott was about the last reputed shooter who panned out to expected levels w/ us. We've been lucky to just get small slippages in those cases a la Rice. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4464
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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levon wrote: | I prefer Reaves as primary ballhandler far more than Beverley, that's for sure.
I have no idea when and where Lonnie Walker is going to play.
Russ
Nunn
Lebron
AD
Jones
Schroder
Beverley
Reaves
JTA (?)
Bryant |
Gabriel is 6’9” vs JTA @ 6’6”. Also JTA is a slim build…1 preseason game but based on it and the size I think we have to assume Gabriel will be the PF2 as the primary back up for AD.
Reeves, Walker, JTA, and Brown will need to step up so that at least one of them emerges as the SF2 primarily backing up LeBron…and that’s if Jones or Bryant step up, if we don’t get the impact from those two then we may have to let AD play center…in that case one of the G/F will have to start.
AD Jones Bryant
LeBron Gabriel
Reeves Walker JTA Brown
Nunn Bev Christie
WB Shroeder |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking way too soon, but hoping that first quarter is a template of how Russ should play this year. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12681
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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It's a good sign that he knocked down both of his threes. Aside from a couple of turnovers I think he's played about as well as you can ask him to so far in the first couple preseason appearances. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for typing anything positive about Russ.
Maybe if he does good enough he can be traded before the season starts |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11929
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Today, he played like a $10M player. It's not terrible but it certainly wasn't great. For the Lakers to take that leap into contenders, he would have to play like a $30M player. Otherwise, everyone else would have to step up in order to make up for his little contribution. |
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BandwagonLBJhopper Star Player
Joined: 07 Feb 2020 Posts: 3606
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Westbrook started great, flashes of what he used to be and some nice form on his set shot three. But it got worse rapidly as the game went on with the turnovers, forced shots and turnovers we are all used to seeing.
I don't think he is a bad player, his strengths just don't fit on this team and his weaknesses are hella magnified next to Lebron.
The best we can hope for is him playing decent enough that it ups his trade value. |
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ZeroDark30_ Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2019 Posts: 8656
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Reaves maturation as a secondary playmaker only makes Westbrook more expendable. This team is a shooter and big away from being dangerous. We can always add a big wing later. |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6885
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | Westbrook started great, flashes of what he used to be and some nice form on his set shot three. But it got worse rapidly as the game went on with the turnovers, forced shots and turnovers we are all used to seeing.
I don't think he is a bad player, his strengths just don't fit on this team and his weaknesses are hella magnified next to Lebron.
The best we can hope for is him playing decent enough that it ups his trade value. |
Russ is now the 3rd/4th option... Fans will have hard time if they continue to compare his production to when he was the 1st or 2nd option... The problem is that you have to maximize his touches to be super effective. He won't be getting that with Lebron and AD on the team. Reason his weaknesses stands out more. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10843
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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ZeroDark30_ wrote: | Reaves maturation as a secondary playmaker only makes Westbrook more expendable. This team is a shooter and big away from being dangerous. We can always add a big wing later. |
I mean, I guess it depends on who the big and the shooter are but clearly there is an elite shooter and a 3&D big who we've passed on moving two 1sts for. Hopefully Indy will move off that demand but I still wouldn't call us dangerous necessarily.
Russ has looked marginally better so far so hopefully that will help us to either win games or make a trade. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Yesterday was a tale of two Russ's.
First half of Russ was good. Making decisive scoring attacks and hitting wide open 3s.
Second half of Russ was the bad Russ from last year. 4 TOs in 20 minutes or so is not good at all. With Ham's system, you don't need a dribble heavy PG. Instead, you have to move the ball. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:46 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Yesterday was a tale of two Russ's.
First half of Russ was good. Making decisive scoring attacks and hitting wide open 3s.
Second half of Russ was the bad Russ from last year. 4 TOs in 20 minutes or so is not good at all. With Ham's system, you don't need a dribble heavy PG. Instead, you have to move the ball. |
we have tons of guard, sub him out when he's like that |
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PenG_ Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 10535
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Still the same player. He looked good early, shooting the open corner three and actually converting on aggressive drives in transition.
But as last year showed, his finishing has fallen off a cliff. Once he misses a layup, the bad habits re-surface and it gets ugly quick. Preseason game, whatever, but it's relevant considering what Russ showed last season.
It's always interesting watching him and CP3 in the same game. So much of what hurts Russ is his lack of options in the midrange. Lebron has a similar problem obviously, but it harms his overall offensive impact a lot less.
Last edited by PenG_ on Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11929
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:17 am Post subject: |
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We need him to be the second ballhandler when Lebron sits. He just couldn't do it. It seems like he just doesn't have it anymore.
The problem with Brick is that he's a shoot-first guard his entire career and passing was never his strong point. So what happens when he gets older and no longer have that freakish speed to go to the rim? He ends up missing layups. So now when he wants to drive and pass instead, he turns it over because he just doesn't have that true point guard mentality. His turnovers CANNOT be fixed.
Luckily, we have DS as another ballhandler!! I'd much rather DS be the dedicated secondary ballhandler.
We don't really need Brick at this point. We could just buy him out and hold on to our frp.
If we start Brick to play alongside Bron and let DS run the second unit, then Brick would have to be an above average three point shooter and play good defense because we wouldn't need him to run the offense.
Just playing good defense and can shoot three? There's like so many that could fill that role. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I thought Russ had a very good first 8-9 minutes. Aggressive and decisive quick scores.
It's when he started reverting to being dribble happy that the turnovers and bad shot selection piled up as he went back to triple dub Russ.
I think the key, if he has to start, is to reduce his minutes. Seems he can be more focused when on a tighter leash. We really don't need him to play more than 25 minutes per game. If you can give me Russ at 100% effort/focus for 25 minutes versus 60% effort/focus for 32 minutes, I'll take the former.
We still have to sort this mess as Dennis/Lonnie will be joining the rotation. And we are hard pressed for minutes as is with Nunn/Reaves really deserving at least 25mpg plus too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11929
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:31 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I thought Russ had a very good first 8-9 minutes. Aggressive and decisive quick scores.
It's when he started reverting to being dribble happy that the turnovers and bad shot selection piled up as he went back to triple dub Russ.
I think the key, if he has to start, is to reduce his minutes. Seems he can be more focused when on a tighter leash. We really don't need him to play more than 25 minutes per game. If you can give me Russ at 100% effort/focus for 25 minutes versus 60% effort/focus for 32 minutes, I'll take the former.
We still have to sort this mess as Dennis/Lonnie will be joining the rotation. And we are hard pressed for minutes as is with Nunn/Reaves really deserving at least 25mpg plus too. |
Buy out Russ so we wouldn't have minute issues anymore. Let DS run the second unit just like Rondo did. Start Nunn and Reaves. I saw flashes of Caruso in Reaves. I think he should definitely get starter minutes.
Last edited by lakersfever714 on Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:34 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I thought Russ had a very good first 8-9 minutes. Aggressive and decisive quick scores.
It's when he started reverting to being dribble happy that the turnovers and bad shot selection piled up as he went back to triple dub Russ.
I think the key, if he has to start, is to reduce his minutes. Seems he can be more focused when on a tighter leash. We really don't need him to play more than 25 minutes per game. If you can give me Russ at 100% effort/focus for 25 minutes versus 60% effort/focus for 32 minutes, I'll take the former.
We still have to sort this mess as Dennis/Lonnie will be joining the rotation. And we are hard pressed for minutes as is with Nunn/Reaves really deserving at least 25mpg plus too. |
Buy out Russ so we wouldn't have minute issues anymore. Let DS run the second unit just like Rondo did. Start Nunn and Reaves. |
Lakers are not going to buy him out. Do you honestly expect the team to fork out 45m (assuming he agrees to a 2m buyout for a vet's min) for him not to play? Absolutely not. Nor should they stretch him and have a 15-16m cap hit for 3 years.
If and when they trade Russ is pretty much the only way to resolve the guard minutes issue until mid-December at the least, when newly signed players can be moved. I don't think they will move Bev as I think Ham likes that competitive spirit from him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:42 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Nor should they stretch him and have a 15-16m cap hit for 3 years. |
Just for the record, the deadline for stretching him was September 1. That ship has sailed. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11929
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Trading Russ would mean giving up at least one future frp so that's a no-no. I guess we could limit his minutes on the bench. I don't know what's a good situation to put him in though.
Can't use him as a defensive specialist or a three point specialist or a ballhandler because of the TO.
It would really bother me if we spent this season as another Westbrick experiment again because we actually have a very talented team with healthy and young energetic players that could hang with the team with the best record last season.
Whatever our decision with Russ, I hope we make it soon and have the team focus on chemistry building for a championship run. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:55 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | Trading Russ would mean giving up at least one future frp so that's a no-no. I guess we could limit his minutes on the bench. I don't know what's a good situation to put him in though.
Can't use him as a defensive specialist or a three point specialist or a ballhandler because of the TO.
It would really bother me if we spent this season as another Westbrick experiment again because we actually have a very talented team with healthy and young energetic players that could hang with the team with the best record last season.
Whatever our decision with Russ, I hope we make it soon and have the team focus on chemistry building for a championship run. |
You know that I was anti-Westbrook before it became fashionable. At this point, I think we need to see how it plays out with Ham. I saw only snippets of the first two games because League Pass and NBA TV are messed up, but this seems to be working better than a lot of people expected. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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