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vasashi17+ Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5743
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:03 am Post subject: |
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RG73 wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: |
True but the argument isn't should we load 100% of the time or 0% of the time. It's should we load manage occasionally or never. The correct answer is occasionally |
So 3 games into the season is occasionally? There is also the issue that he needs to get into playing shape by....playing.
Sure, 30-40 games into the season on the 2nd night of a back-to-back on the road against a lousy, but scrappy team, yes, have him rest. That is when you start load managing. 3 games into the season at home and you want to rest him because he might get hurt?
The thing Lebron needs to be doing is less standing around in the crowded paint where people seem to continually fall onto his legs. He has proven he can rebound. Now leave that to Russ and AD. The management is putting Lebron in safer positions on the court. Standing lock kneed in the paint with a history of ankle injuries due to collisions is what we need to avoid more than minutes. |
That all makes sense for a guy that’s not as seasoned as Bron is. Dude is about to be 37, has had plenty of mileage put on those ankles as well with consecutive deep playoff runs throughout his career…and tonight is the 1st of a back-to-back…the 1st game of 3 in the next 4 days. Dude should rest up and recover imho.
I don’t really understand the pushback on how important it is to manage Bron’s load during this stage of his career.
We have an expectation to manage his load with what has been done and said this off/preseason. I mean after loading up the responsibilities of playmaking on dude as the de facto point guard, we finally got insurance for the guy this season. It’s all about the long play and Vog’s even gave us the expectation that Bron will play roughly 34 minutes per. Playing him 40+ minutes after the fact is bizarre so early into the season…on top of that, it occurred in a game where he appeared to have dodged a major injury. So why exacerbate his condition? _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE! |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | miggz23 wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | Moments like yesterday when LeBron hurt his ankle is the reason why the Lakers need to take note from the Clippers playbook and install load management, seeding does not matter for a heavy experienced basketball team, even if we end up with the 5th or 6th seed, the players health on our team will determine rather we win the championship. |
That type of injury has nothing to do with load management. Those are just one of those unfortunate stuff that happens when a player rolls under you after being knocked down. |
Load management prevents those type of situations. |
Load management reduces the amount of physiological stress a body suffers.
But it's not magical. Players will still step on other players and break their ankles, or tear their ACL, or jam their fingers, etc. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68345 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10914
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:58 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP |
honestly at this point there's more evidence that playing more prevents injuries, or at the very least has no effect. there were historical studies done about 4 games in 5 nights: no correlation to injury
honestly preventative load management is a combination of asset protections, competitive advantage, and a little bit of sports superstition |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8484
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP |
It's ridiculous. They tried to copy Pops formula, but they aren't doing it right. Pop used to do it so the older stars would get rest and be fresh against the teams he really needed them for. He wasn't doing it to prevent injury or just doing it. They are trying to prevent injury, when you can't, and also, just doing it. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP |
You can't judge load management based on one player. It's like judging whether a medicine works based on how it affects one individual.
Even if you load manage, players can still get hurt. And, for all we know, the load management for Kawhi was successful -- without it, he might have played fewer games and been less effective. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 12173
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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KD last year, 2020 Lebron. That's more than enough proof load management on superstars provide a tremendous advantage to team with said superstars. It's almost unfair...lol. But if the league doesn't crack down on it harder, then we should abuse it as much as possible. We have the superstar. We have the option to do it. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68345 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP |
You can't judge load management based on one player. It's like judging whether a medicine works based on how it affects one individual.
Even if you load manage, players can still get hurt. And, for all we know, the load management for Kawhi was successful -- without it, he might have played fewer games and been less effective. |
OK. Name one player who used load management and it was for sure the reason they didn't get injured.
If Kawi's load management was successful it's a formula I'd steer clear of.
Without its use, if Kawhi played fewer games I'd be looking to see why. Like conditioning and work ethic. The latter are sometimes a reason for injury. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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hype Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4390 Location: Lake Nacimiento
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | KD last year, 2020 Lebron. That's more than enough proof load management on superstars provide a tremendous advantage to team with said superstars. It's almost unfair...lol. But if the league doesn't crack down on it harder, then we should abuse it as much as possible. We have the superstar. We have the option to do it. |
Maybe i'm missing something but both of your examples are not remotely realistic load management? Bron got 4 months off because of a one off weird Covid affected season then KD was coming off a long injury recovery and played a little bit earlier in the season and then he got a hamstring strain? and missed another huge chunk of the season and only played the last part of the season and into the Playoffs. Not sure how that's proof whatsoever let alone "more then enough".
I'm all for sitting him on some of the back2back's or when we play a bunch of games in a short period since that's one of the main reasons I have accepted Westbrook here but I hope there's no extreme periods he is sitting as we need chemistry real bad as an entire team which will only happen with real game reps. |
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BandwagonLBJhopper Star Player
Joined: 07 Feb 2020 Posts: 3609
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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He will play when healthy - he is chasing Kareem’s scoring record. Trust me if he didn’t play, he is worried about that ankle. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: |
OK. Name one player who used load management and it was for sure the reason they didn't get injured. |
If this is the way you want to frame a discussion on load management, it truly is a waste of time for both you and me. |
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JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44295
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:11 am Post subject: |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25320
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Skip saying LeBron faked an injury to load manage last night is pretty nauseating to hear, dude need to get off his nhats |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68345 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | jodeke wrote: |
OK. Name one player who used load management and it was for sure the reason they didn't get injured. |
If this is the way you want to frame a discussion on load management, it truly is a waste of time for both you and me. |
My position on load management is it's a tool when properly used will keep players fresh not one used to prevent injuries. IMO it should be employed on all players of meaning to a squad, not just superstars.
The Spurs were fined $250,000 after coach Gregg Popovich gave four key players the night off during a nationally televised game. Pop did it right.
My mention of Kawhi in the conversation may have been misplaced. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8484
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
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PenG_ Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 10565
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
The same guy who started every game last season up until some bum from Atlanta lunged into his planted leg? |
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LakesGnrLake Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Posts: 1309
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: |
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If you are going to load manage keep it simple. No back to backs. Keep to a tight minute restriction(like Phil used to do with Kobe) and maybe pick a handful of games during the year you aren't going to play. |
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Brawn13 Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2019 Posts: 4015
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
Lol. Bron ain’t soft. He’s played more minutes than damn near anyone in league history. He’s chasing Kareem’s record…being so close he wouldn’t sit out if he didn’t absolutely need to.
And don’t bring up Kobe…his late career is exactly what we DONT want Lebron to do. That Achilles tear ruined Kobe’s twilight years. There’s soft and there’s stupid, playing til the wheels fall off doesn’t make you tough or a warrior. |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8484
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: |
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PenG_ wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
The same guy who started every game last season up until some bum from Atlanta lunged into his planted leg? |
Yes. That same guy is soft. Mentally soft, flops, rolls around on the ground when he barely gets hit, and acts like a dang drama queen. That same guy. |
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PenG_ Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 10565
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Outspoken wrote: | PenG_ wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
The same guy who started every game last season up until some bum from Atlanta lunged into his planted leg? |
Yes. That same guy is soft. Mentally soft, flops, rolls around on the ground when he barely gets hit, and acts like a dang drama queen. That same guy. |
Well that's a different discussion. Calling him soft for sitting out these games seems wrong though. |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8484
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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PenG_ wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | PenG_ wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
The same guy who started every game last season up until some bum from Atlanta lunged into his planted leg? |
Yes. That same guy is soft. Mentally soft, flops, rolls around on the ground when he barely gets hit, and acts like a dang drama queen. That same guy. |
Well that's a different discussion. Calling him soft for sitting out these games seems wrong though. |
I could understand the misinterpretation of my comment because the way I worded it gives that impression. But I just called him soft, not for sitting out the games. Someone in the game thread said he was gonna play because he is trying to pass Kareem. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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5D Chess.. for all we know he did it on purpose to force the team to play without him.. make them regain their strengths |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11509
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Does load management really work? Kawhi uses it and he's always hurt.
2018 Raptors 60 GP
2019 Clippers 57 GP
2020 Clippers 52 GP
2021 Clippers 0 GP |
He has a degenerative leg disorder, so he isn't an ideal test case. I mean I think if he doesn't move his leg turns to wood, and if he moves too much...it still turns to wood.
I think it makes sense sometimes on 2nd night of back-to-back scenarios, or those 3 games in 4 nights scenarios on the road--basically scenarios where your older players do not get sufficient sleep between games and/or sufficient recovery time. And absolutely keeping minutes managed during the season--there is a huge difference between a guy going 40+ minutes a night and the low 30s. These are reasonable load management scenarios IMO, and ones that are beneficial. Just resting guys for days who aren't actually injured just because? That sounds like mid-season vacation. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: |
The Spurs were fined $250,000 after coach Gregg Popovich gave four key players the night off during a nationally televised game. Pop did it right. |
Pop did that a decade ago, It was a much different time and no one was talking about load management.
In finding Pop, the NBA sent out a press release that said: ""The Spurs decided to make four of their top players unavailable for an early-season game that was the team’s only regular-season visit to Miami. The team also did this without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way. Under these circumstances, I have concluded that the Spurs did a disservice to the league and our fans."
I think the league's position was right. If you are going to say load management is a worthwhile thing to do, the teams and the league should be coordinated about it. They are still an entertainment business, and stars being pulled out of games without warning isn't good for the league. |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11509
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Outspoken wrote: | PenG_ wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | Who said soft Bron would play this game? |
The same guy who started every game last season up until some bum from Atlanta lunged into his planted leg? |
Yes. That same guy is soft. Mentally soft, flops, rolls around on the ground when he barely gets hit, and acts like a dang drama queen. That same guy. |
I would be happy to perform an experiment on you wherein you stand with locked knees while a 200+ man barrels into your legs. Then we can see who is an actual drama queen.
The most likely thing here is that you are the attention seeking drama queen intentionally posting this sort of nonsense. You get that dopamine drip when you think you post something edgy. And then you need to get another fix, so you double down on your hot take.
I need to take a shower after reading this sort of take as I'm covered in the shower of this mental ejaculate that I didn't ask for. It's impolite really. There are places you can do that outside of a public sphere you know.
Now I get it, when I was a kid I would spew all over anyone, anytime too. But this is a kind, gentler and more censored internet now that my generation is all grown up and you gotta take that trash to...maybe one of the chans or something?
The reality is very few NBA players are actually soft in the way the amateurs throw that term around. And certainly no NBA players who have lasted a couple decades in the league. The sort of work you need to put in to stay at Lebron's level at his age necessarily involves the sort of pain (mental and physical) that few of us could imagine, much less endure. So unless your resume includes 2 decade NBA baller--which I am 100% certain it doesn't--then you ought to pipe the hell down about Lebron being soft because he had a over 200 lbs dropped on his ankle. |
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