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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Big Shot Bob wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
Of course Kuz/Trezz would put up better numbers on a likely non playoff team, while Buddy may put up less numbers but be on a championship caliber team. We know how that works. |
I think you're agreeing with me then? If Kuz and Trezz are going to put up those kind of numbers then their value will go back to what it was 1-2 years ago... which means that trading both of them for Buddy isn't fair value. My point is that we'd need more. |
No. I’m saying they’ll have inflated non playoff numbers while Hield may be putting good numbers on a championship squad. |
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panamaniac Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 11246 Location: PTY
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuz and Trez being out are not a shocker. Lakers barely used Trez and Vogel needs elite rim protection at the basket to use his D to its best. We have AD at the 5 and AD should be working towards a program to get his body to be able to play half his minutes at the 5, ala Pau Gasol 2008-2011. All we need at the 5 is a big guy that can take the match ups that are very physical for AD, and come in and play those situations. That again, is not Trez.
So anything we can get out of Trez is a major upgrade, because he has no role on this team. Because he was a Klutch guy, he may do us a favor and allow us to help him get to his next team. |
Our D was already the best in the league. What Vogel SHOULD be focusing on is our offense and getting an offensive coordinator. We were the best defensive team in the league and by a large margin, particularly when AD was healthy.
If people or even Vogel are still on "But Harrell isn't elite rim protection!" they are focusing on the wrong thing. |
Facts. What this team needs is perimeter shooting. |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
The Kings run really bad lineups, so that would probably cancel out the curse. LeBron and AD would get him better looks and he would do the same for them. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16881
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
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Why? People here hate both guys and we need a shooter. This solves both right?
Or are they that underrated here and maybe we should be getting more? This is what loses me. |
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Kobe_Is_King13 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2018 Posts: 555
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Halflife wrote: | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
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Why? People here hate both guys and we need a shooter. This solves both right?
Or are they that underrated here and maybe we should be getting more? This is what loses me. |
They are both very underrated. I think the move is a home run for the Kings. They get two guys that really benefit from playing without the weight of expectations and in a free flowing offense.
Kuz and Montrezl helped the Lakers bench lead the league in scoring in the regular season. They'll go to Sacremento and do the same. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16881
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | Halflife wrote: | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
. |
Why? People here hate both guys and we need a shooter. This solves both right?
Or are they that underrated here and maybe we should be getting more? This is what loses me. |
They are both very underrated. I think the move is a home run for the Kings. They get two guys that really benefit from playing without the weight of expectations and in a free flowing offense.
Kuz and Montrezl helped the Lakers bench lead the league in scoring in the regular season. They'll go to Sacremento and do the same. |
I 100% agree. |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6289 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:10 am Post subject: |
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No one I think is in love with a reported Kuzma/Trez AND the 22nd pick. But Buddy would bring a skill set we just don't have. In a better system, surrounded by vets, Buddy could really be something special.
The 22nd pick appears to be cannon fodder anyway - packaged in some trade to acquire us assets. Kuzma is going out in some deal - Trez. opting in to be traded, he is going out anyway and actually doing us a favor (if he does opt in). We don't want to deal THT; I mean are we hoping someone will take McKinney instead of the 22nd pick?
We are in win now mode, for better or worse. Trying to get one more chip before Lebron really starts diminishing. If Buddy ends up being a 17-20 point scorer as a third wheel, especially since he is such a good 3 point shooter, that outweighs a rookie at the 22nd pick brining value this year. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16881
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: |
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waterman40 wrote: | No one I think is in love with a reported Kuzma/Trez AND the 22nd pick. But Buddy would bring a skill set we just don't have. In a better system, surrounded by vets, Buddy could really be something special.
The 22nd pick appears to be cannon fodder anyway - packaged in some trade to acquire us assets. Kuzma is going out in some deal - Trez. opting in to be traded, he is going out anyway and actually doing us a favor (if he does opt in). We don't want to deal THT; I mean are we hoping someone will take McKinney instead of the 22nd pick?
We are in win now mode, for better or worse. Trying to get one more chip before Lebron really starts diminishing. If Buddy ends up being a 17-20 point scorer as a third wheel, especially since he is such a good 3 point shooter, that outweighs a rookie at the 22nd pick brining value this year. |
this makes sense but leaves us with do we re-sign DS or S&T. |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6289 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: |
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My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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oaktown_dimond Star Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 1362
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I hope we can keep the 22nd pick. Use it to package with Dennis. To me, Trez and kuz is more than enough to trade for buddy. It's fair for both sides. We get our elite shooter... And Trez and kuz very might well go nuts scoring for luke. No championship pressure. The offense is basically run real fast and jack shots. They'll be in heaven! |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16881
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 am Post subject: |
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oaktown_dimond wrote: | I hope we can keep the 22nd pick. Use it to package with Dennis. To me, Trez and kuz is more than enough to trade for buddy. It's fair for both sides. We get our elite shooter... And Trez and kuz very might well go nuts scoring for luke. No championship pressure. The offense is basically run real fast and jack shots. They'll be in heaven! |
so if kuz and trez arent enough what do you do? |
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Kobe_Is_King13 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2018 Posts: 555
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16881
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
is nothing better than Russ? |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11968
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
And how has his teams fare throughout his career? What has he accomplished since not playing alongside KD and Harden anymore? Ever heard of stat padding? against bad teams? That's why I don't just look at the stats. Stats are nice but the player has to pass the eye test as well and Westbrick doesn't pass the eye test for me. Dude can't shoot to save his life. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
And how has his teams fare throughout his career? What has he accomplished since not playing alongside KD and Harden anymore? Ever heard of stat padding? against bad teams? That's why I don't just look at the stats. Stats are nice but the player has to pass the eye test as well and Westbrick doesn't pass the eye test for me. Dude can't shoot to save his life. |
If you want to get into a discussion about how a particular players team has fared throughout their careers, why not bring up Damian Lilliard and Bradley Beal as well?
All 3 are great players, IMO. I would not put them in the same realm of stat padding as say a Kevin Love during his time in Minnesota. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: |
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If WB made something more reasonable, say 25m, I'd say, ok, let's see how that goes. But he's making something like 44m and then 47m the year after. Then you need to talk about extending him, which may run in the 50m/year range. That's not something I want to really do. |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | If WB made something more reasonable, say 25m, I'd say, ok, let's see how that goes. But he's making something like 44m and then 47m the year after. Then you need to talk about extending him, which may run in the 50m/year range. That's not something I want to really do. |
Why would you have to extend him? If he comes off the books, and I believe LeBron will too, if I'm not mistaken, then suddenly you have cap space to go after another star. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If WB made something more reasonable, say 25m, I'd say, ok, let's see how that goes. But he's making something like 44m and then 47m the year after. Then you need to talk about extending him, which may run in the 50m/year range. That's not something I want to really do. |
Why would you have to extend him? If he comes off the books, and I believe LeBron will too, if I'm not mistaken, then suddenly you have cap space to go after another star. |
He is guaranteed for next season. LBJ is guaranteed beyond that.
WB would likely want an extension of several more years, likely in the high 30m+ range. I doubt Lakers are just going to let him walk for nothing, right? |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If WB made something more reasonable, say 25m, I'd say, ok, let's see how that goes. But he's making something like 44m and then 47m the year after. Then you need to talk about extending him, which may run in the 50m/year range. That's not something I want to really do. |
Why would you have to extend him? If he comes off the books, and I believe LeBron will too, if I'm not mistaken, then suddenly you have cap space to go after another star. |
He is guaranteed for next season. LBJ is guaranteed beyond that.
WB would likely want an extension of several more years, likely in the high 30m+ range. I doubt Lakers are just going to let him walk for nothing, right? |
I just looked up LBJ's contract - it says he's a FA in 2023 (same as Russell).
So yes - if we have cap space for a max deal for another star player next to AD, then I could see us letting Russell just walk. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11968
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
And how has his teams fare throughout his career? What has he accomplished since not playing alongside KD and Harden anymore? Ever heard of stat padding? against bad teams? That's why I don't just look at the stats. Stats are nice but the player has to pass the eye test as well and Westbrick doesn't pass the eye test for me. Dude can't shoot to save his life. |
If you want to get into a discussion about how a particular players team has fared throughout their careers, why not bring up Damian Lilliard and Bradley Beal as well?
All 3 are great players, IMO. I would not put them in the same realm of stat padding as say a Kevin Love during his time in Minnesota. |
Why does it matter what other players do? We're only talking about Westbrick here. Bottom line is Westbrick hasn't accomplished much and his regular season stats are diluted due to facing a lot of inferior opponents. Put up monster stats in the playoffs then I'll be impressed. Oh wait, he doesn't even get to the playoffs that often. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 578
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
And how has his teams fare throughout his career? What has he accomplished since not playing alongside KD and Harden anymore? Ever heard of stat padding? against bad teams? That's why I don't just look at the stats. Stats are nice but the player has to pass the eye test as well and Westbrick doesn't pass the eye test for me. Dude can't shoot to save his life. |
If you want to get into a discussion about how a particular players team has fared throughout their careers, why not bring up Damian Lilliard and Bradley Beal as well?
All 3 are great players, IMO. I would not put them in the same realm of stat padding as say a Kevin Love during his time in Minnesota. |
Why does it matter what other players do? We're only talking about Westbrick here. Bottom line is Westbrick hasn't accomplished much and his regular season stats are diluted due to facing a lot of inferior opponents. Put up monster stats in the playoffs then I'll be impressed. Oh wait, he doesn't even get to the playoffs that often. |
The point I'm trying to make is that he hasn't exactly had the greatest quality of teammates talent-wise since the KD/Harden days. So to expect him to have won championships with as little help as he has had, I don't think it's fair to hold that against him.
Give him teammates like he'd have with the Lakers and just imagine how many assists he could rack up. |
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anth2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12262 Location: Pasadena, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
I don't....worst possible fit. Ball dominate and can't shoot a lick. We need shooters, not bricklayers who is still owed over $81 million for two years left on his contract. I think folks here don't know that, it seems..... |
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Kobe_Is_King13 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2018 Posts: 555
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: |
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quartzcharm wrote: | Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | quartzcharm wrote: | waterman40 wrote: | My guess is that DS is plan C; he try to sign and trade him for Westbrook - I don't think we are in the position to acquire Lowry, CP3, Beal, or Lillard.
Plan A: acquire a super friends guard to play here cheaply for a short 1-2 period, sort of a Rondo 2.0. Espeically if someone like Derozan comes here for the MLE money. A Rubio or George Hill type might be the target.
Plan B: Sign and trade DS
Plan C: Re-sign Dennis and he remains the starter for now. |
I want Westbrook. |
Of all the available PGs, Westbrook is the absolute worst fit from both an on-court compatibility and financial standpoint. |
The guy is a walking triple double. Some people are put off by his attitude on the court, but dude has that fire to him that we haven't had since Kobe. |
All the intensity in the world doesn't make up for the fact he's a bad basketball fit. He's an extremely ball dominant PG that adds little to no value off ball. He's a shaky decision maker at best, especially in crunch time. And his contract is ghastly!! |
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