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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40208 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:30 pm Post subject: LAKERS -vs- HEAT - 10/4 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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Playing With Fire... And the Heat burned them tonight.
An awful start to this game by L.A. The Lakers had 10 turnovers in the first quarter, the most of any game this season. Just sloppy ball. They trailed by 13 points but managed to have it tied back up by the first possession of the second quarter.
Anthony Davis had 4 of those early turnovers and was sidelined with foul trouble. He’d return to the floor in the second quarter, but pick up his third foul (and yet another turnover).
At the half, the Lakers trailed by 4 points. They quickly gave up an 8-0 run to start the second half with AD picking up his fourth foul in the process, and Vogel called a timeout down 12. They would trail by as many as 14 in that third, but trimmed the lead down to 5.
With a couple of threes by Morris as LeBron drew defenders and a layup by Rondo early in the fourth, the Lakers would take the 2-point lead and force a timeout.
The Lakers struggled to keep primary defenders on Jimmy Butler. He hunted the switches, attacked the mismatches and down the stretch in this one that killed the Lakers. To try to negate this, the Lakers could have switched to their 3-2 zone, but we never saw it. We stayed with the switching D and paid the price.
The daggers came with a couple minutes left. Butler got a switch with KCP. (The Heat pull AD up top, Rondo down low as help.) He attacked the wide open lane and drew FTs and a 5-point game with 1:47 left became 7. Butler then attacked Morris next time down to push it to 9 and the Lakers were toast. They fell 115-104.
The Lakers lost all four quarters in this game as they let their defense get dictated to and never adjusted.
LeBron -- -- Sloppy game for LeBron. He had several of those early turnovers. Late in the game, he’d get turnover prone again with a couple of travels and getting caught in the air to throw a pass away. He’d been playing clean in the first couple of games, but in this one everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. He’d finish with 8 turnovers. Defensively, he had a couple of blocks. On one of his turnovers, he hustled back for a trackdown block (he also swatted a man on drive early). He’d take on the Butler assignment to try to slow that down but our switching schemes would just allow Butler to find other matches to attack. Offensively, some good moments attacking the early hedges. He had a big layup to end the third and another And-1 to start the fourth. Then he hit Morris for a couple of threes. But that’s when he’d get turnover prone again. Then another killer, he had a ball poked away from behind in transition. No help from teammates there and an unusual turnover to see from LeBron anyway. No help from his other start tonight. The Stats: He scored 25 points on 9-16 shooting (1-5 from three, 6-9 from the line) to go with 10 boards, 8 assists, 2 blocks, 8 turnovers and 2 fouls in 39 minutes. He was a -4.
Davis -- -- Where was he on the offensive glass in this game? That really annoyed me more than anything. So many plays where guys would attack or shoot and we’d see AD hanging out on the perimeter. We never imposed our size down there. Awful start to the game for him tonight. Two fouls and 4 turnovers in the first 7:44 before sitting without a point. He came back in and would hit a three and finish a lob before picking up his third foul on a perimeter charge (weak call). So he was a -17 with 5 turnovers in his 11 first half minutes. Losing our defensive anchor made it much easier on guys attacking the rim, and we didn’t have a rebounding advantage. We’d need a complete turnaround in the second half from him. He picked up his fourth foul on a perimeter reach a couple minutes into the second half. Vogel left him in and AD would score 10 points in the third while avoiding picking up that fifth foul. He’d hit an elbow jumper and a tough turnaround. He finally had a putback jam after stealing the ball and cleaning up AC’s miss on the break. Still, just 9 shots and a couple of FTs in his 33 minutes and defensively he was pulled away from the hoop with the perimeter oriented Heat bigs. “I think the foul trouble made him a little passive,” LeBron said. AD said that definitely slowed his aggressive. But he kind of stuck in that mode in the fourth quarter when he didn’t need to. He also mentioned there was a lot of miscommunication defensively. The Stats: He scored 15 points on 6-9 shooting (1-2 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 5 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals, 5 turnovers and 4 fouls in 33 minutes. He was a -26.
Howard -- -- We found him for a lob dunk on the first play of the game. We’d hit him for another lob dunk later. That was his scoring and it happened early. Defensively, we still have issues with the switching at times. He’s getting caught in no man’s land. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-2 shooting to go with 3 boards (2 offensive), 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 15 minutes. He was a -15.
Green -- -- Butler seemingly can have his way with him. We went away from him as the game went along. Just couldn’t do anything offensively and Butler loved to see him on D. Got to hit those corner threes. He’s been wide open on a lot of those this whole series but keeps missing. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 0-6 shooting (0-4 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 1 assist, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 17 minutes. He was a -15.
Caldwell-Pope -- -- He missed his first couple of looks, neither on balance early on, as he was fading or pumping. That second one hit the side of the backboard. That’s no way to get yourself going. Butler loved to see him on D, as well. That’s an instant problem and the Heat know it. He’d sink one three in this game and struggle a bit from the line, as well. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 1-5 shooting (1-3 from three, 2-4 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal and 4 fouls in 29 minutes. He was a -26.
Kuzma -- -- Some good moments from Kuz in the first half. He sank a three on a kickout and then another corner three at the end of the first quarter when LeBron found him. He’s also hit an And-1 runner in transition. He’d sink a couple of corner threes in the seconds half (4-8 from behind the arc). Excellent work offensively. His third foul was a weak one on a pass off that erased a three by AC. He’s one of the guys we need out there to defend Butler, so that foul trouble in the first half hurt a bit The Stats: He scored 19 points on 6-13 shooting (4-8 from three, 3-3 from the line) to go with 3 boards (2 offensive), 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 23 minutes. He was a +6.
Caruso -- -- He had 7 points in the first half, sinking a three and attacking the paint for FTs. Good job getting to the line. Also some nice swing passes that set up Morris for both of his threes in the first half. Good effort as always on D. Occasionally, he’s allowing a man to get a step on him and the angle to the hoop. Hopefully, he can clean that up. He got his 21st steal in these playoffs deflecting a pass, still three shy of Cooper’s Laker record. He also drew a moving screen call fighting around one. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 1-4 shooting (1-3 from three, 5-6 from the line) to go with 1 board, 2 assists, 1 steal and no fouls in 26 minutes. He was a +8.
Rondo -- -- Man, he had a layup to his left that gave the Lakers a lead early in the fourth. The team just couldn’t sustain their run as they struggled to get stops after he forced that timeout. That would have been a great time to spring the zone on the Heat, but we really had no gear shifting strategically in this game. Rondo got a cou[le steals in the first half, one to ignite the break. Another on an inbounds in the backcourt. But the Lakers were really on their heels all game defensively. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-8 shooting to go with 8 boards (2 offensive), 2 steals, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a +6.
Morris -- -- We needed someone to step up with AD in foul trouble. We went to microball, lost our size for a long stretch, but he was able to help space the floor and scratch out 10 points early on when we needed some help. That included a couple of threes, getting fouled on a three and dunk off a two-man sequence with LeBron. To start the fourth, he sank a couple huge corner threes as the Heat tried to send help on LeBron. That helped the Lakers even things up. He’d finish with 5 threes on the night to lead the team there and a +10 to lead the team in that category. We wasted a good game from him offensively. Defensively, he had mixed results, but was able to be a little disruptive around the rim until he gave up a real easy one to Butler late. The Stats: He scored 19 points on 6-13 shooting (5-11 from three, 2-3 from the line) to go with 6 boards, 2 assists, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 25 minutes. He was a +10.
Smith -- -- AD picked up his third foul on a weak charge call on the perimeter in the first half. We brought JR in and went small. He’d swish a three behind a Rondo screen and miss a couple of corner threes on the move to his right. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-3 shooting from three to go with 1 board, 1 steal and no fouls in 5 minutes. He was a +1.
Vogel -- -- Key Moment: Let’s go with that stretch with 9 minutes left where the Lakers took the 2-point lead. They couldn’t sustain their run as their continually got spread out and attacked in it’s weakest points by Butler as he hunted switches. Very predictable defense and that led to the Heat getting what they wanted.
Key Substitution: The Lakers got 19 points from each of Morris and Kuzma off the bench as they sank a combined 9-19 from three. We’re getting some shooting by our big guys, but our starting guards? Yikes.
Key Stat: Jimmy Butler with 40 points on 14-20 shooting, 11 boards, 13 assists in 45 minutes. He was a +20. So in the 3 minutes he was out the Heat were a -9. You would think with Butler being 0-0 from three in this game, we could have defended the perimeter a little better so that we didn't wind up in so many mismatches or slip screens because we're playing to high up. And for the Lakers stat-wise, 20 turnovers? Not going to get it done. Clean that up. |
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FernieBee Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2003 Posts: 8033 Location: 921SD
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, DB.
Two more!
_________________ Garvey, Lopes, Cey, Russell |
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j-dawg Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 12177
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks DB
If it takes their best player to have a 40 point Triple Double (Nevermind the percentage he shot at), then you have to tip your hat to your opponent. If that’s what it takes, I like our chances for winning this series. |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 6049
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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They took AD out of his groove and we suffered. 9 shots only? Should’ve tried forcing it in a little more but the problem wasn’t the O..we couldn’t stop them today. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40208 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Snipes wrote: | They took AD out of his groove and we suffered. 9 shots only? Should’ve tried forcing it in a little more but the problem wasn’t the O..we couldn’t stop them today. |
Or last game. |
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, DB. Do you think the foul trouble kept AD from getting into the scrums inside and attacking the offensive glass like last game? Seems we basically lost the game in the first quarter by digging that hole, giving the Heat confidence, and never adjusting + tone got set for AD with the 2 early fouls. Simply get out to a better start, and we probably win this one...
Having said that, the defense (specifically on Jimmy) needs to be addressed before Game 3. And I know Vogel will keep going with DG, but if he doesn't start hitting those shots soon, the Heat are gonna keep packing the paint against Lebron and AD and getting away with it. |
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cheesehead88 Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 151
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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3 - 2 Zone
Caruso up top with Kuzma and Bron flanking him
Dwight and AD backline
Kuzma key 🔑 to this whole series just like Morris key 🔑 to Houston and AD key 🔑 to Denver
Kuzma only one quick enough to stay with Jimmy and strong 💪 enough to hole his ground
Jimmy driving for free throws and layups
Make him shoot pull up midrange jumpers
The 3 - 2 zone will force them out of the paint and make them shoot pull up midrange jumpers
We don’t have to worry about CJ or Lillard
These guys aren’t great pull up jump shooters
They like to catch and shoot or go off of handoffs and quick swing passes |
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cmonkee Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 5301 Location: Redondo Beach
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks DB.
Really annoying/frustrating game to watch. Still have faith in the team though, and they typically respond well to losses. Hope to see smart adjustments, especially getting AD going again.
I am somewhat concerned about Danny Green's health though - he doesn't seem to be moving all that well out there (hip issue probably still bothering him?). |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Another great summary DB.
Couple of things summed up this one; and here is one of them as you said:
1. Quote: | The Lakers struggled to keep primary defenders on Jimmy Butler. He hunted the switches, attacked the mismatches and down the stretch in this one that killed the Lakers. To try to negate this, the Lakers could have switched to their 3-2 zone, but we never saw it. We stayed with the switching D and paid the price. |
Watching him rip the defense up single-handedly was just mind blowing. Of course he's going to say "they're in trouble" - he's right if we dont change what we are doing. They could have gone zone, forced Jimmy to try and beat them outside, or even throw at him double teams like we did with Murray, Harden, and Lillard before. Nope, terrible, and I mean terrible coaching by Vogel on that. He did not make any adjustment. Seems to always take an L for him to make one.
2. AD's passivity. I understand the foul trouble probably frustrated him but he has got to be more assertive on the offensive end. It was annoying to watch him just float around the 3 line most of the night. No movement. No getting the ball and immediately attacking like he did vs other similar D's. Just...very passive.
On the whole, the Heat get a tip of the hat, Butler went off and that was huge, and Olynyk is making the most of his minutes (which our guys need to stop). |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks DB. Whole team seemed off, not ready to play. Maybe the first two games were so easy and they turned in on whenever they needed it, the took this one for granted. Hope the turn it up in the next one. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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BTW post game interview with Vogel...no one asked about the defense on Butler, lol! |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12187 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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second game in a row they've scored at-will against us. Fairly concerning. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks DB,
Another sad part was the Lakers being outscored in EVERY quarter!
The Heat only outscored the Lakers in in one quarter in each of the first two games! _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6162
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers didn't come close to playing with the passion that the Heat brought to the game
If the team had won this game playing this awful, they would be beaten in the next game, hence hoping this is a "Woke" Call
AD has to learn to play "clean" when in foul troublel. When he is not a threat on defense or offense, he's just a very talented player that's not scoring or defending while looking at the game
Heat's game plan to take AD worked, how will the Lakers respond
When Jimmy Buckets was more successful than LeBron/AD combined, that's a problem
When the bench totally outscored the starting lineup, that's a problem |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21089 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB for an excellent T&R.
Miami adjusted. Vogel's turn. |
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akgolf Star Player
Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 1448 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB ( |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:36 am Post subject: |
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It seems that Butler and moving Heat had their way with a one on one
Laker defense. There was much too many inside shots made.
Play the zone with variations. Or a doubt team on Butller.
Watch the Heat moving around on offense. And the Lakers 4 sitting while
Lebron goes one on 4. Good thing there is Rondo to help.
But Rondo has lost a step and it shows.
Just not enough movement and plays on offense. It has to b be more than
Lebron on 4.
Green and KCP are too streaky to start together. They keep putting up bricks and just sit there on offense. Play Morris, Kuzma, Waiters, Cook, anyone who moves and can shoot.
Davis has to learn to pass out of triple and double teams. |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22407 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Putrid game from the Lakers. And yet we had plenty of chances to win it.
Thanks, DB. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58352
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Those ridiculing the Heat as if they are the 2002 Nets 2.0 were in for this rude awakening. Not all surprised that this series is 2-1, in fact that is exactly how I thought we would drop the games, either (or both) game 1 and 3. When we went up 2-0, and you saw that Heat energy in game 2 second half. Spo was going to make some adjustments as we busted up the zone easily in game 2.
The positive. Despite playing pretty bad, we were easily able to come back in the game and go back up 1 in the 4th. This with AD a no show, and Lebron being a TO machine. The Heat still had to play incredible in the clutch to win (and we tapered off again). I think we saw all that Spo is gonna bring out this series, with both his zone and man D schemes (even the man, there is a lot of quick shift to packing the paint going on). We OTOH have not made too many shifts in what we can do, and once we do that, I think it will be over.
The negative. We could not get AD involved, even after the foul trouble. The refs ensured early on he would not be involved in the game. Had the game 90-89 despite poor play from us, mainly due to Kieff and Kuz. AD settled and played soft, I think out of fear of being fouled out. He knows next game he can not do that. Bron was a little bit trying to figure out the Heat defense. Leading to over dribbling and some confusion (TOs). Second negative was that we continue to struggle with a scheme to stop Jimmy from being in the Harden role. That is essentially what the Heat are doing, putting Jimmy in the Harden-PG role. We need to do to Jimmy, what we did to Harden Dame and Murray. It is on us as a team to really put the clamps on, with mixes of blitzing him, sending AD on him, as AD is the one that seems to give Jimmy the most trouble.
Overall, this is why all the celebrating and overconfidence by some of the Laker fans was troubling me. I am quite sure the Lakers themselves did not have this, as they legit looked like the typical 2-0 team that is a little tired, coming into face an opposing team playing for their lives. The Heat played for their lives. Credit to them. This is why I said, after we beat Houston, and once the Clips lost, I respected all the teams left in the playoffs. Boston, Heat, LA, Nuggets. All good teams with good character. They all will fight till the end. Well coached. All the coaches left in the conference Finals, from Stevens, Vogel, Spo and Malone are very good coaches. Their teams all play hard.
It is on us to make an adjustment defensively, and for Bron-AD to play with higher IQ. Vogel needs to get the guys to see where they can make things tougher for Butler. Game 4 needs to be our best effort. We need to show the Heat that we are bigger, more athletic, skilled and physical. The 3 point shots need to be a later option, as that is exactly what Spo wants us to be, a 3 point soft team instead of a physical beat you down inside team. |
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Theseus Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 14270
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Even in a tough loss its still nice to be able to read one of these write ups. Well done, and thanks again. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23793
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:45 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Overall, this is why all the celebrating and overconfidence by some of the Laker fans was troubling me. I am quite sure the Lakers themselves did not have this, as they legit looked like the typical 2-0 team that is a little tired, coming into face an opposing team playing for their lives. The Heat played for their lives. Credit to them. This is why I said, after we beat Houston, and once the Clips lost, I respected all the teams left in the playoffs. Boston, Heat, LA, Nuggets. All good teams with good character. They all will fight till the end. Well coached. All the coaches left in the conference Finals, from Stevens, Vogel, Spo and Malone are very good coaches. Their teams all play hard. |
Well said Wolf, particularly this part. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Another tid-bit that is a positive for the Heat, is that they have now outscored the Lakers in total number of Quarters through the 3 games:
Heat: 6
Lakers: 5
Tie: 1
This should be of great concern for the Lakers going forward! _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:42 am Post subject: |
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unleasHell wrote: | Another tid-bit that is a positive for the Heat, is that they have now outscored the Lakers in total number of Quarters through the 3 games:
Heat: 6
Lakers: 5
Tie: 1
This should be of great concern for the Lakers going forward! |
If I recall correctly, back in the day the CBA had a rule that awarded a point in the standings to whichever team won a quarter, plus three points to the team that won the game. So you could have a game in which the points were split 4-3, or you could have a game that was 7-0. Under that system, we would be leading 11.5-9.5.
But this ain't the CBA. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | unleasHell wrote: | Another tid-bit that is a positive for the Heat, is that they have now outscored the Lakers in total number of Quarters through the 3 games:
Heat: 6
Lakers: 5
Tie: 1
This should be of great concern for the Lakers going forward! |
If I recall correctly, back in the day the CBA had a rule that awarded a point in the standings to whichever team won a quarter, plus three points to the team that won the game. So you could have a game in which the points were split 4-3, or you could have a game that was 7-0. Under that system, we would be leading 11.5-9.5.
But this ain't the CBA. |
LOL, yeah, there are different ways to spin the numbers, for instance; I'm sure the Lakers have scored a higher point differential in 5 quarters that the Heat have in 6! (That's why the Lakers are up 2-1)... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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Gile Rookie
Joined: 05 Sep 2020 Posts: 24
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