Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2 pick, I'd do the deal and ask what else Minny wants for Kevin Garnett.
We'd get a Trade X in the Chicago deal. Sign Banks with the MLE (we'd still be over the cap) and then use the Trade X on a veteran free agent. With a team of Kobe and KG, it shouldn't be hard to get one.
What??? without odom, who the heck would minny want for KG? Chandler? This is getting more and more ridiculous as we go. Put down the crack pipes, guys.
A) we're not getting KG for anything other than Kobe Bean Bryant.
B) Odom for Chandler and Roy would be a horrible trade. You guys are way overvaluing Roy. He's a rookie, a top prospect in a weak draft, but still a rookie. KB would be buried under the weight of having to carry that team. Get real, guys! We'd be in the lottery for sure. :roll:
Addressing your first point: Only in a player for player swap, and those are rare. Look at the Tracy McGrady trade, or the Shaquille O'Neal trade... players that make a lot of money are traded for multiple players.
Because KG makes so much money, we'd trade at least 4 or 5 players to get him in return. Chicago can offer the best package: Picks, youth at every position. By trading Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2, we essentually take Chicago out of the picture.
We'd acquire Chandler and the second pick in the draft. That second pick doesn't have to be Roy, that entire senereo could be the smoke screen. Or rather the Wolves would want Roy. We're addressing our point guard situation with the mid-level exception: Marcus Banks. Wolves need a two guard, we could be drafting Roy for them, in the event of a KG trade.
Or offer would be a combination of Bynum, Chandler, Brown, Mihm, the No. 2 pick, future picks and fillers. They can draft a backcourt with the No. 2 and No. 6 picks: Brandon Roy and Marcus Williams wouldn't be bad. They already have Ricky Davis at SF. They could have Chandler replace Garnett at PF and use Brown or Mihm at center with Bynum developing.
Of course we'd have to outbid all other clubs, including the Warriors, Knicks, etc. But remember, Cheryl Miller reported on TNT that Dr. Buss talked with Taylor about acquiring Garnett at the deadline, they could have orchistrated all of this over the past month.
buphead wrote:
jminges wrote:
Think of the bigger picture folks -- Kevin Garnett.
We don't need another star to win it all. I'd be happy with a package of a solid player or two and/or a lottery pick for Odom. That's more like what we'd get anyway for Odom.
Which was the last championship team that won without star power? Stars have consistancy. Two-way players typically win championships. Kobe and KG are perineal All-NBA and All-Defense players. Not all loaded teams win championships, but the odds of that team winning a championship are significantly increased with stars.
Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2 pick, I'd do the deal and ask what else Minny wants for Kevin Garnett.
We'd get a Trade X in the Chicago deal. Sign Banks with the MLE (we'd still be over the cap) and then use the Trade X on a veteran free agent. With a team of Kobe and KG, it shouldn't be hard to get one.
What??? without odom, who the heck would minny want for KG? Chandler? This is getting more and more ridiculous as we go. Put down the crack pipes, guys.
A) we're not getting KG for anything other than Kobe Bean Bryant.
B) Odom for Chandler and Roy would be a horrible trade. You guys are way overvaluing Roy. He's a rookie, a top prospect in a weak draft, but still a rookie. KB would be buried under the weight of having to carry that team. Get real, guys! We'd be in the lottery for sure. :roll:
Addressing your first point: Only in a player for player swap, and those are rare. Look at the Tracy McGrady trade, or the Shaquille O'Neal trade... players that make a lot of money are traded for multiple players.
Because KG makes so much money, we'd trade at least 4 or 5 players to get him in return. Chicago can offer the best package: Picks, youth at every position. By trading Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2, we essentually take Chicago out of the picture.
We'd acquire Chandler and the second pick in the draft. That second pick doesn't have to be Roy, that entire senereo could be the smoke screen. Or rather the Wolves would want Roy. We're addressing our point guard situation with the mid-level exception: Marcus Banks. Wolves need a two guard, we could be drafting Roy for them, in the event of a KG trade.
Or offer would be a combination of Bynum, Chandler, Brown, Mihm, the No. 2 pick, future picks and fillers. They can draft a backcourt with the No. 2 and No. 6 picks: Brandon Roy and Marcus Williams wouldn't be bad. They already have Ricky Davis at SF. They could have Chandler replace Garnett at PF and use Brown or Mihm at center with Bynum developing.
Of course we'd have to outbid all other clubs, including the Warriors, Knicks, etc. But remember, Cheryl Miller reported on TNT that Dr. Buss talked with Taylor about acquiring Garnett at the deadline, they could have orchistrated all of this over the past month.
buphead wrote:
jminges wrote:
Think of the bigger picture folks -- Kevin Garnett.
We don't need another star to win it all. I'd be happy with a package of a solid player or two and/or a lottery pick for Odom. That's more like what we'd get anyway for Odom.
Which was the last championship team that won without star power? Stars have consistancy. Two-way players typically win championships. Kobe and KG are perineal All-NBA and All-Defense players. Not all loaded teams win championships, but the odds of that team winning a championship are significantly increased with stars.
What? We have a guy named Kobe Bryant, he's a star. If you read carefully, I said "we don't need ANOTHER star to win it all." And to answer your question, the last team to win a championship was WAY back 3 years ago, Detroit Pistons. The biggest name on their team is Chauncey Billups. Why??? Because they won the championship and he was Finals MVP.
I am saying we need more solid two-way contributors, not stars, on this team to return to dominance. Guys like Tayshaun Prince, staying with the Pistons. _________________ -- Buphead --
Chandler couldn't score if he was the only dude at a sex addicts anonymous retreat.
Seriously, the dude scored 15+ PTs. twice last season and 2 PTs or less 20 times.
Not to mention he tends to miss large chuncks of seasons with his back issues. And no one has mentioned his contract yet. If you think LO is inconsistent and overpaid, wait'll you get a load of Chandler.
Add that this is a weak draft class and you're taking a huge gamble on this trade. I'd pass.
Thank you!
Some people here just can't wait to get rid of LO. It's like they hear a name and say "OK!" but dont even look at what the trade would do for our team.
LO might not be what some people think he is, but he did average 15-9-5 for us last year. Inconsistant you say? You think Tyson Chandler, or anyone else wont be inconsistent in their first year learning the triangle? He averaged a whopping 5-9-1 without the tri. I would hope you guys are smarter than that.
Not to mention LO is gonna be much better next year, and is gonna be an All Star.
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:
jminges wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
jminges wrote:
Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2 pick, I'd do the deal and ask what else Minny wants for Kevin Garnett.
We'd get a Trade X in the Chicago deal. Sign Banks with the MLE (we'd still be over the cap) and then use the Trade X on a veteran free agent. With a team of Kobe and KG, it shouldn't be hard to get one.
What??? without odom, who the heck would minny want for KG? Chandler? This is getting more and more ridiculous as we go. Put down the crack pipes, guys.
A) we're not getting KG for anything other than Kobe Bean Bryant.
B) Odom for Chandler and Roy would be a horrible trade. You guys are way overvaluing Roy. He's a rookie, a top prospect in a weak draft, but still a rookie. KB would be buried under the weight of having to carry that team. Get real, guys! We'd be in the lottery for sure. :roll:
Addressing your first point: Only in a player for player swap, and those are rare. Look at the Tracy McGrady trade, or the Shaquille O'Neal trade... players that make a lot of money are traded for multiple players.
Because KG makes so much money, we'd trade at least 4 or 5 players to get him in return. Chicago can offer the best package: Picks, youth at every position. By trading Odom and the No. 26 for Chandler and the No. 2, we essentually take Chicago out of the picture.
We'd acquire Chandler and the second pick in the draft. That second pick doesn't have to be Roy, that entire senereo could be the smoke screen. Or rather the Wolves would want Roy. We're addressing our point guard situation with the mid-level exception: Marcus Banks. Wolves need a two guard, we could be drafting Roy for them, in the event of a KG trade.
Or offer would be a combination of Bynum, Chandler, Brown, Mihm, the No. 2 pick, future picks and fillers. They can draft a backcourt with the No. 2 and No. 6 picks: Brandon Roy and Marcus Williams wouldn't be bad. They already have Ricky Davis at SF. They could have Chandler replace Garnett at PF and use Brown or Mihm at center with Bynum developing.
Of course we'd have to outbid all other clubs, including the Warriors, Knicks, etc. But remember, Cheryl Miller reported on TNT that Dr. Buss talked with Taylor about acquiring Garnett at the deadline, they could have orchistrated all of this over the past month.
buphead wrote:
jminges wrote:
Think of the bigger picture folks -- Kevin Garnett.
We don't need another star to win it all. I'd be happy with a package of a solid player or two and/or a lottery pick for Odom. That's more like what we'd get anyway for Odom.
Which was the last championship team that won without star power? Stars have consistancy. Two-way players typically win championships. Kobe and KG are perineal All-NBA and All-Defense players. Not all loaded teams win championships, but the odds of that team winning a championship are significantly increased with stars.
You think they'd be willing to trade KG for that crap? McHale would be lynched. And even if they miraculously agreed, who would our backcourt be? KG and Cook? Moronic idea. They wouldn't take anyone not named Kobe Bryant. Delude yourself all you want, it isn't going to happen. _________________ Welcome to OverreactionGround.net, where a single possession can make you the savior of mankind or a total moron. -Ozendorph
Last edited by karlmalonefan on Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 292 Location: Highland, UT
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject:
lakers0505 wrote:
interesting, will tune in, well because u never know what will happen its all 50/50
Yeah...
I still think everyone will do their picks at where they are at and then trade draft rights the day after....
At least I bet the Lakers will talk to whoever drafted Roy or Aldridge about trading their pick they get...the draft rights and DG or cash or a future pick or something......
Chandler couldn't score if he was the only dude at a sex addicts anonymous retreat.
Seriously, the dude scored 15+ PTs. twice last season and 2 PTs or less 20 times.
Not to mention he tends to miss large chuncks of seasons with his back issues. And no one has mentioned his contract yet. If you think LO is inconsistent and overpaid, wait'll you get a load of Chandler.
Add that this is a weak draft class and you're taking a huge gamble on this trade. I'd pass.
Assuming this is true, I'd pass too. Replace Chandler w/ Gordon & one of their stud SF's, then we'll talk. I don't even understand why we should almost always include OUR pick in any trade scenario that people think of. This draft could have a # number of gems that late, would we be willing to miss that opportunity just to overpay some team? Haven't we been low-balled enough? _________________ #2 Lonzo
#28 Derrick White, Jordan Bell, Deonte Burton
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 Posts: 1418 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject:
kobesNBA wrote:
Socks wrote:
Trading LO for the right deal =
Trading LO for this deal =
Chandler couldn't score if he was the only dude at a sex addicts anonymous retreat.
Seriously, the dude scored 15+ PTs. twice last season and 2 PTs or less 20 times.
Not to mention he tends to miss large chuncks of seasons with his back issues. And no one has mentioned his contract yet. If you think LO is inconsistent and overpaid, wait'll you get a load of Chandler.
Add that this is a weak draft class and you're taking a huge gamble on this trade. I'd pass.
Thank you!
Some people here just can't wait to get rid of LO. It's like they hear a name and say "OK!" but dont even look at what the trade would do for our team.
LO might not be what some people think he is, but he did average 15-9-5 for us last year. Inconsistant you say? You think Tyson Chandler, or anyone else wont be inconsistent in their first year learning the triangle? He averaged a whopping 5-9-1 without the tri. I would hope you guys are smarter than that.
Not to mention LO is gonna be much better next year, and is gonna be an All Star.
Or better yet, he will be consistant.
Odom is NOT going to be an All-Star next season ... or probably any season in the Western Conference. He is behind Duncan, KG, Brand, Dirk, McGrady, Carmelo, Pau Gasol, Marion, Stoudamire, Diaw (oy!) ... and maybe Rashard Lewis. Not saying that all of these guys are better than Odom, just saying in terms of All-Star ... it helps to be a major scorer. I would LOVE for Odom to be voted by the coaches onto the All Star team. But, for that to happen, he would have to be scoring 18, 10 rebounds, and 6 assists and the Lakers would have to be in first inthe Pacific ... and some of those others would have to be having a down year. I dont think thats happening next year.
I have said it before, I'll say it again, I love Odom. Still, I am open to trading him if the Lakers receive either two quality starters, or one definite All Star (JO or KG).
Because the Lakers need at least ONE 20 ppg scorer on the team to compliment Kobe. That is going to have to come from either the 1, 4, or 3. Maybe in the future, Bynum will be that, but probably not. How many obtainable 1s out there can score consistent 20 ppg? Banks isnt going to be that. Roy might be that in 2 years. Maybe. Maybe. Arenas would have been that. How many 20 ppg scorers are available at the 4? JO, KG ... PIPE.
But, if you are talking 20 ppg at the 3 ... there are a TON of them, and unfortunately, Odom is not one. Again, I love Odom, but if you can turn him into two guys that fill holes at the 1 and 4, and allow you to free up the 3 for a scorer (Peja, Gerald Wallace, any of Atlanta's swingmen) ... now that gives you more flexibility (not cap flexibility, player flexibility).
My preference would be Roy, Kobe, Odom ... now thats a nice offensive unit. But, its not possible to obtain Roy without giving up Odom. I dont think.
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject:
Kobe is going to be in his prime. If the Lakers shake things up, it has to be for a big difference maker. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~
Chandler couldn't score if he was the only dude at a sex addicts anonymous retreat.
Seriously, the dude scored 15+ PTs. twice last season and 2 PTs or less 20 times.
Not to mention he tends to miss large chuncks of seasons with his back issues. And no one has mentioned his contract yet. If you think LO is inconsistent and overpaid, wait'll you get a load of Chandler.
Add that this is a weak draft class and you're taking a huge gamble on this trade. I'd pass.
Thank you!
Some people here just can't wait to get rid of LO. It's like they hear a name and say "OK!" but dont even look at what the trade would do for our team.
LO might not be what some people think he is, but he did average 15-9-5 for us last year. Inconsistant you say? You think Tyson Chandler, or anyone else wont be inconsistent in their first year learning the triangle? He averaged a whopping 5-9-1 without the tri. I would hope you guys are smarter than that.
Not to mention LO is gonna be much better next year, and is gonna be an All Star.
Or better yet, he will be consistant.
Odom is NOT going to be an All-Star next season ... or probably any season in the Western Conference. He is behind Duncan, KG, Brand, Dirk, McGrady, Carmelo, Pau Gasol, Marion, Stoudamire, Diaw (oy!) ... and maybe Rashard Lewis. Not saying that all of these guys are better than Odom, just saying in terms of All-Star ... it helps to be a major scorer. I would LOVE for Odom to be voted by the coaches onto the All Star team. But, for that to happen, he would have to be scoring 18, 10 rebounds, and 6 assists and the Lakers would have to be in first inthe Pacific ... and some of those others would have to be having a down year. I dont think thats happening next year.
I have said it before, I'll say it again, I love Odom. Still, I am open to trading him if the Lakers receive either two quality starters, or one definite All Star (JO or KG).
Because the Lakers need at least ONE 20 ppg scorer on the team to compliment Kobe. That is going to have to come from either the 1, 4, or 3. Maybe in the future, Bynum will be that, but probably not. How many obtainable 1s out there can score consistent 20 ppg? Banks isnt going to be that. Roy might be that in 2 years. Maybe. Maybe. Arenas would have been that. How many 20 ppg scorers are available at the 4? JO, KG ... PIPE.
But, if you are talking 20 ppg at the 3 ... there are a TON of them, and unfortunately, Odom is not one. Again, I love Odom, but if you can turn him into two guys that fill holes at the 1 and 4, and allow you to free up the 3 for a scorer (Peja, Gerald Wallace, any of Atlanta's swingmen) ... now that gives you more flexibility (not cap flexibility, player flexibility).
My preference would be Roy, Kobe, Odom ... now thats a nice offensive unit. But, its not possible to obtain Roy without giving up Odom. I dont think.
There are only 4 teams that had 2 guys over 20pts a game;
Seattle
Houston
Philly
Toronto
And see how well those teams did.
Kobe and LO, have the highest scoring avg for a one-two punch.
THIS TEAM DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM SCORING POINTS. WE DON'T NEED MORE POINTS. WE NEED DEFENSE AND EXPERIENCE.
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 Posts: 1418 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:
That stat with Kobe and Odom being the highest scoring duo is a fallacious statistic because Kobe throws off the curve. I bet the Lakers finished below the median in terms of PPG by starting position at every position but SG. Maybe if you combine healthy Mihm and Kwame stats they are at the median in terms of scoring at the center position.
And, the idea that defense alone wins championships is just not true. Its reductionist. A balance of very good defense and good offense wins championships. Offensive efficiency is what the Lakers have the potential to be good at, but they were too streaky at too many times throughout the season. They have only one consistent offensive threat.
The Lakers were okay at offense last year, but I think that their offensive streakiness contributed to defensive lapses. Its Zen: Balance. Its Dialectical. Synthesis. We can improve on offense, and defense. We need to do both. My point on the trade is that it has the potential to improve our defense and offense, mainly because its easier to add offense at the 3 than at the 1 or 4.
Championship teams have balance on offense and defense. The same applies to the Pistons. They didnt win a championship until they added Rasheed who is a very good scorer at the 4, and Billups and Hamilton established themselves as consistently good scorers. We couldnt defend them in 2004.
That stat with Kobe and Odom being the highest scoring duo is a fallacious statistic because Kobe throws off the curve. I bet the Lakers finished below the median in terms of PPG by starting position at every position but SG. Maybe if you combine healthy Mihm and Kwame stats they are at the median in terms of scoring at the center position.
And, the idea that defense alone wins championships is just not true. Its reductionist. A balance of very good defense and good offense wins championships. Offensive efficiency is what the Lakers have the potential to be good at, but they were too streaky at too many times throughout the season. They have only one consistent offensive threat.
The Lakers were okay at offense last year, but I think that their offensive streakiness contributed to defensive lapses. Its Zen: Balance. Its Dialectical. Synthesis. We can improve on offense, and defense. We need to do both. My point on the trade is that it has the potential to improve our defense and offense, mainly because its easier to add offense at the 3 than at the 1 or 4.
Championship teams have balance on offense and defense. The same applies to the Pistons. They didnt win a championship until they added Rasheed who is a very good scorer at the 4, and Billups and Hamilton established themselves as consistently good scorers. We couldnt defend them in 2004.
That's very true. And the reason why our offense wasn't fluid is because we were still learning it. Gutting the team and starting all over will put us right back where we were.
There are only 4 teams that had 2 guys over 20pts a game;
Seattle
Houston
Philly
Toronto
And see how well those teams did.
Kobe and LO, have the highest scoring avg for a one-two punch.
THIS TEAM DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM SCORING POINTS. WE DON'T NEED MORE POINTS. WE NEED DEFENSE AND EXPERIENCE.
And how about that Shaq/Kobe duo? How did that work out? This team DOES need scoring because Kobe can't play Superman forever. I'd rather see Kobe scoring 25/26 points per game on at least 47% shooting and lockdown defense. And I think you're taking the "20ppg" a little too literally. Even anything in the high teens would be huge for this team.
And the defense would actually improve with Tyson back there to swat shots from the weakside. Kwame and Tyson in the front court is just what you need for a team that is built around a guard. Those guys don't need their shots, and THAT'S A GOOD THING! Let Kwame focus on keeping bigs out of the paint, and Chandler on rebounding and shotblocking. Those 2 will get their points on putbacks.
A lockdown interior defense, with an unstoppable scoring backcourt is a proven championship formula. All they'd be missing is a lockdown defensive specialist at the 3. (read: Ron Artest )
I don't know if that highlight reel of Odom really shows he's THAT great considering Kwame also looked pretty damn awesome in that film. Just goes to show you that a video of a bunch of best plays doesn't prove much.
Lamar at his greatest during the 2nd half of the season barely got us into the playoffs with a 1st round exit. We overachieved against the Suns. If you are contend with this then I guess everything about the team is just gravy for you right now.
We'll end up with the first 2 players picked in the 2001 NBA Draft, is it possible that we'll also end up with the player who was picked at #3? PAUL GASOL
Is that better than when we had two dunk contest champions in Kobe and J.R. Rider?
Joined: 26 Apr 2001 Posts: 25928 Location: out there
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
I don't know if that highlight reel of Odom really shows he's THAT great considering Kwame also looked pretty damn awesome in that film. Just goes to show you that a video of a bunch of best plays doesn't prove much.
Lamar at his greatest during the 2nd half of the season barely got us into the playoffs with a 1st round exit. We overachieved against the Suns. If you are contend with this then I guess everything about the team is just gravy for you right now.
The problem with all of this trade talk around Odom is that HE CAN BE that great.. when he wants to... He has to want to be like Kobe.. come in and cut your heart out and hand it to your fans.. He has to quit being a big sissy when he is on the court.. He has to want every game like there is no other.. quit laughing at mistakes etc..
People who don't like Kobe are people who have problems with their own feelings of inadequacy (sp?) ... He plays every single game to win.. He trains his ass off all summer long so he can be the best he possibly can be.. while many other star players are enjoying their time off.. he is planning and preparing for ways he can beat them
If Odom and Kwame all train with Kobe.. they better never separate them.
Some people here just can't wait to get rid of LO. It's like they hear a name and say "OK!" but dont even look at what the trade would do for our team.
LO might not be what some people think he is, but he did average 15-9-5 for us last year. Inconsistant you say? You think Tyson Chandler, or anyone else wont be inconsistent in their first year learning the triangle? He averaged a whopping 5-9-1 without the tri. I would hope you guys are smarter than that.
Not to mention LO is gonna be much better next year, and is gonna be an All Star.
Or better yet, he will be consistant.
Lamar Odom will not be an all-star next season.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Chandler play at least one season in the triangle under Tim Floyd? I can't remember if Floyd resigned before the season or not.
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