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Marty Star Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 3499 Location: DeLorean
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, TA. Excellent post. |
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chilake24 Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 Posts: 1727
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:40 am Post subject: |
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C M B wrote: | melo061 wrote: | Kobe has done everything he has so far this series+ better shooting in previous playoff series. If you think this is one of Kobe's best series ever than you are short changing him. |
To date it's his most impressive Finals series by default, production-wise, and when you factor all of the added weight--Olympics, injuries/fatigue/mileage, refereeing--you just have to shake your head and say "damn." |
damn
really, this one should be a stick. do it, tony |
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ChefLinda Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 24209 Location: Boston
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Great assessment and beautifully written. |
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82410 Star Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 3182
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I agree Tony, I've never seen Kobe play better than in this series and the last game was a darn near masterpiece. _________________ The heroes of the past are untouchable, protected forever by the fortress door of time-unless some mysterious stranger magically turns up with a key. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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C M B wrote: | J.C. Smith wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | J.C. Smith wrote: | Nice writeup Tony. |
Oh the Irony! |
Perhaps if you would take the time to read the things I say, instead of giving a kneejerk reaction anything other than something 100% complimentary was said, you'd feel otherwise. I said Kobe had played a pretty good series, but wasn't great (by his standards). And moreover I did so in a manner that was intended to defend him against things that had been said by the media, and you and others acted as though I spit in his mother's face. I don't think anyone who watches the Lakers 82 games a season, could not appreciate Kobe. But it also doesn't mean they have to pretend he is flawless. Unfortunately for some people (and you are definately one of them) anything less than absolution is treason. You've made that obvious by your one line comments like this in other threads when I've been complimentary of him.
With regards to Tony's writeup here. It's easy to appreciate a well written post. Even if you don't agree with it fully, heck even if you disagreed with it. I agree with most of what Tony wrote here, though I don't think it's been Kobe's finest hour by any stretch. There's a lot of things that other guys on here have written that I may not at all agree with, but if its a well formulated opinion, I can certainly respect it. |
Just for fun you should use a series of arbitrary numerical values (rounded down, not up) to the nearest tenth to express your respect. Try to be efficient. |
Yep, dude is just trying to clean up his mess but doesn't have Hollinger's PER to lead the way. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Addicus Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 9642 Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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mojaber Star Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 1013 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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(bleep) THE HATERS!!!!
KOBE YOU ARE THE MANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent write up TA. _________________ "These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess." |
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fadeaway8 Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 1857
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I remember a few years ago when my 82 year old grandmother came to visit from a foreign country for the first time. She did not know anything about the NBA and knew very little about basketball in general. One day she was sitting and watching a Lakers game with me. And after a quarter or two, she turned to be and said, "that number 8 guy, he's very good." _________________ WELCOME TO THE LOS ANGELES BIG BALL BRAND. |
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Rick12322 Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 19164
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Tony, impressive write up. You ought to write a novel. |
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67ShelbyGT Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 4048
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Tony, after a re-read. I think you should be called the Anti-Hollinger. Boxscore readers and stats spitters are usually the worst and have least knowledge of bball. Its usually a defense mechanism to compensate for their bball "insecurity" if you will. Hollinger is the worst kind of basketball analyst. I think you should send this to him and show him how to analyze a game without repeating any stats.
"There are lies, damned lies and then there are stats." _________________ Alltime lineup: Magic | Kobe | MJ | Hakeem | KAJ |
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Tony Almeida Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 12072
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
It comes down to the plays that were made, on both ends of the court. Not the plays they tried to make or the plays they couldn't make. That's always been a key with Kobe. How many guys would have either conceded the layup to Dwight, or not been able to fully wrap him up? How many guys would have been pushed out of the play after switching onto Howard? How many guys would go into a shell after missing how ever many shots on the biggest stage in the sport?
Kobe is not one of those guys. He will keep coming at you, and not just on the offensive end. In the NBA Finals, you have to compete and make plays, championship plays, helping keep the team in a position to win. That simple.
As far as the media is concerned, they don't see it because they choose not to. It defeats their purpose. They choose to second guess and criticize every decision (great quote, SGH), believing one of the greatest players to ever play the game isn't worthy of trust that even lesser players are granted. Funny, and yet the people who actually matter, the Lakers, have full trust in him. You can see it in their play. They believe they are in, and can win, every single game. May have something to do with one of the greatest closers of all-time on the brink of helping close the deal on yet another championship. The media's work re: Kobe is fueled by bias to create controversy and push their agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fisher's second three is proof of that. How many times have we heard about #23 passing it to Kerr, and how #24 would never make such a play? That that's yet another positive Jordan had over Bryant. Decision-making, selflessness. One had it, the other doesn't.
Well, here we are. NBA Finals, and he just did what many said he never could. How many in the media will glorify that play the way they did with Jordan's? Not many. And yet, was it not comparable? Both veteran role players, Kerr a steady three-point shooter, whereas Fisher has been in a horrid slump. Yet, Kobe chose to make the play possible, since as he said, Fisher's been there done that so many times.
Has Kobe played his best basketball? No, not really. Of course, when someone has a 81 point game on their resume, you must consider the context and realize what he has this team in a position to do. EHL brought up a great point, one that is often overlooked by most, including even myself. Not only has he played the full 82 the past two seasons, with deep playoff runs, and winning the Gold in between, he only missed 7 games for the two season before that. In case you forgot, those two seasons he was carrying the Lakers to the playoffs with starters such as Kwame and Smush.
And yet, like I said, that tends to be overlooked because we expect Kobe to continue making plays and do his part to put the team in a position to win. Regardless of mileage, injury, horrid officiating, etc. He doesn't let those things slow him down, just continues to bring it for the Los Angeles Lakers. That's what makes Kobe, Kobe. |
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82410 Star Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 3182
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tony Almeida wrote: | Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
It comes down to the plays that were made, on both ends of the court. Not the plays they tried to make or the plays they couldn't make. That's always been a key with Kobe. How many guys would have either conceded the layup to Dwight, or not been able to fully wrap him up? How many guys would have been pushed out of the play after switching onto Howard? How many guys would go into a shell after missing how ever many shots on the biggest stage in the sport?
Kobe is not one of those guys. He will keep coming at you, and not just on the offensive end. In the NBA Finals, you have to compete and make plays, championship plays, helping keep the team in a position to win. That simple.
As far as the media is concerned, they don't see it because they choose not to. It defeats their purpose. They choose to second guess and criticize every decision (great quote, SGH), believing one of the greatest players to ever play the game isn't worthy of trust that even lesser players are granted. Funny, and yet the people who actually matter, the Lakers, have full trust in him. You can see it in their play. They believe they are in, and can win, every single game. May have something to do with one of the greatest closers of all-time on the brink of helping close the deal on yet another championship. The media's work re: Kobe is fueled by bias to create controversy and push their agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fisher's second three is proof of that. How many times have we heard about #23 passing it to Kerr, and how #24 would never make such a play? That that's yet another positive Jordan had over Bryant. Decision-making, selflessness. One had it, the other doesn't.
Well, here we are. NBA Finals, and he just did what many said he never could. How many in the media will glorify that play the way they did with Jordan's? Not many. And yet, was it not comparable? Both veteran role players, Kerr a steady three-point shooter, whereas Fisher has been in a horrid slump. Yet, Kobe chose to make the play possible, since as he said, Fisher's been there done that so many times.
Has Kobe played his best basketball? No, not really. Of course, when someone has a 81 point game on their resume, you must consider the context and realize what he has this team in a position to do. EHL brought up a great point, one that is often overlooked by most, including even myself. Not only has he played the full 82 the past two seasons, with deep playoff runs, and winning the Gold in between, he only missed 7 games for the two season before that. In case you forgot, those two seasons he was carrying the Lakers to the playoffs with starters such as Kwame and Smush.
And yet, like I said, that tends to be overlooked because we expect Kobe to continue making plays and do his part to put the team in a position to win. Regardless of mileage, injury, horrid officiating, etc. He doesn't let those things slow him down, just continues to bring it for the Los Angeles Lakers. That's what makes Kobe, Kobe. |
_________________ The heroes of the past are untouchable, protected forever by the fortress door of time-unless some mysterious stranger magically turns up with a key. |
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55 Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 12092
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Great post |
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mirak Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5238
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent, excellent stuff. |
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BrokeurAnk Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 Posts: 447
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Great post man |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40225 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Not sure how I missed this post before now...but this should have been a sticky. And it probably ought to go in the HOF, too.
Well done. |
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Exick Site Staff
Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 15880
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Hey Tony, your post sucks and you smell funny.
_________________ Game recognize game, Granddad. - Riley Freeman, The Boondocks |
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moonriver24 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 15266
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Great essay TA! Superb analysis!
Hollinger and stats guys can continue to livein their own world.
They'd focus on 11-31 fg. 20 missed shots. End of story.
Game 4 truely is a representation of Kobe's will and determination to
not let this one championship slip away.
Taking into account the fact that Kobe has been nonstop for 2 seasons,
olympic qualification games and then the olympic games in between is
just a testimony of greatness itself.
Many great points in this thread. Starting with you, of course.
_________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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targetman Star Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 5503
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: |
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me likey!!! _________________ Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21111 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Tony I don't know how I missed this either -- Excellent post.
It's very unfortunate that ABC/ESPN chose to rely on Breen and Van Gundy in the broadcast booth. I have less problem with Jackson, but they've really done the NBA a disservice with the other two, knowing full well that impartiality is almost impossible in the broadcast booth when your own brother is the head coach of one of the teams. Breen? He simply doesn't belong there.
What is Stern thinking??? Or ABC for that matter? This was the kind of game that could produce a new generation of NBA fans. That play with 4.6 seconds left was cover-of-the-Cheerios-box legendary. However, what the national audience got to hear was a protracted series of pouting rants about how Nelson shouldn't have stepped back from the three-point line.
Derek nails another three in overtime from a Kobe assist. Has Kobe just proven his critics wrong? Did he show the world that this team is first? Was that not a great decision? Uh... National audience hears more pouting rants about his elbow, nevermind the fact that he was raising his arm, which happens to have an elbow on it, to pass the ball.
I've watched every championship series played since Wilt Chamberlain and Jerry West took it home for the Lakers many years ago. These Lakers have shown up playing Championship basketball, they've had a long road to redemption, and they've got a legend on their team. They deserve as much respect as any team, and that includes Jordan's Bulls. It's time the media takes the hate mask off and gives them their due.
Again, thanks Tony! |
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Big Drew 17 Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 450 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Awesome post Tony _________________ Bleed Purple and Gold |
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koolmo23 Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 4661
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: |
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great Post Tony HOF material |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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I Tony.
Where would the legend of Michael Jordan be if the narrators of his last 3 championships chose to focus on his mediocre shooting instead of his brilliance?
Kobe has been nothing short of brilliant. Perfect? Far from it, but brilliant nonetheless. Basketball is an imperfect game, played by earthlings. And that's a big part of what makes it so compelling. Do you make more good plays than bad? Do you make more good decisions than bad? Can you pick yourself and your team up when things don't go your way?
It's unfortunate that the people who get to narrate the story aren't going to give the full perspective. But that's something we as fans are going to have to be content in knowing ourselves. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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Bas Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1190
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Great great post tony! _________________ "Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved, for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant |
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Cervantes Star Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 Posts: 1576 Location: Some Freakin' Where
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Tony Almeida wrote: | Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
It comes down to the plays that were made, on both ends of the court. Not the plays they tried to make or the plays they couldn't make. That's always been a key with Kobe. How many guys would have either conceded the layup to Dwight, or not been able to fully wrap him up? How many guys would have been pushed out of the play after switching onto Howard? How many guys would go into a shell after missing how ever many shots on the biggest stage in the sport?
Kobe is not one of those guys. He will keep coming at you, and not just on the offensive end. In the NBA Finals, you have to compete and make plays, championship plays, helping keep the team in a position to win. That simple.
As far as the media is concerned, they don't see it because they choose not to. It defeats their purpose. They choose to second guess and criticize every decision (great quote, SGH), believing one of the greatest players to ever play the game isn't worthy of trust that even lesser players are granted. Funny, and yet the people who actually matter, the Lakers, have full trust in him. You can see it in their play. They believe they are in, and can win, every single game. May have something to do with one of the greatest closers of all-time on the brink of helping close the deal on yet another championship. The media's work re: Kobe is fueled by bias to create controversy and push their agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fisher's second three is proof of that. How many times have we heard about #23 passing it to Kerr, and how #24 would never make such a play? That that's yet another positive Jordan had over Bryant. Decision-making, selflessness. One had it, the other doesn't.
Well, here we are. NBA Finals, and he just did what many said he never could. How many in the media will glorify that play the way they did with Jordan's? Not many. And yet, was it not comparable? Both veteran role players, Kerr a steady three-point shooter, whereas Fisher has been in a horrid slump. Yet, Kobe chose to make the play possible, since as he said, Fisher's been there done that so many times.
Has Kobe played his best basketball? No, not really. Of course, when someone has a 81 point game on their resume, you must consider the context and realize what he has this team in a position to do. EHL brought up a great point, one that is often overlooked by most, including even myself. Not only has he played the full 82 the past two seasons, with deep playoff runs, and winning the Gold in between, he only missed 7 games for the two season before that. In case you forgot, those two seasons he was carrying the Lakers to the playoffs with starters such as Kwame and Smush.
And yet, like I said, that tends to be overlooked because we expect Kobe to continue making plays and do his part to put the team in a position to win. Regardless of mileage, injury, horrid officiating, etc. He doesn't let those things slow him down, just continues to bring it for the Los Angeles Lakers. That's what makes Kobe, Kobe. |
Marc Stein just wrote an article bringing the same point about the pass to fisher and Jordan's pass to Kerr and how the headlines are so different.
Lest we forget Jordan punched Kerr in the face during a practice...but that's Jordan having drive. Would LOVE to see Kobe punch Farmar and read the perception.
H _________________ In the Immortal Words of Chick Hearn...
'It's better to be lucky than good...and if you're both...you'd be Dr Jerry Buss.'
Thanks Dr Buss - You Are Missed. |
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