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chilake24
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject:

DB,
i think the real difference between bynum and D12 is their attitude. today , i rewatched game1, in the 4th quarter, when D12 was ont he bench, he was just eagerly to absorb what tylon lue was teaching him. for a superstar acted like this when got blowout(most stars would be angry and not want to learn at that humiliating time), you have to respect him. on the other hand, when bynum had foul trouble sitting ont he bench, on a he turned his head to speak with brown, they may talk about `the game, but when D12 was moving in front of him, he never bothered to pay attention, STILL looked at brown. i may reading too much into this, but i do feel bynum didn't like bball when he was young, bball is still not his biggest interest right now. NBA is just his way to earn fame and money, he may put a lot of time in practicing, but his heart is not all there, just like when we study, it is not how much time we spend on study, it is how to study and wether you are willing to learn. D12 definitely shoowed his wiliingness and earned a lot of respect from me
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Sister Golden Hair
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:23 am    Post subject:

chilake24 wrote:
DB,
i think the real difference between bynum and D12 is their attitude. today , i rewatched game1, in the 4th quarter, when D12 was ont he bench, he was just eagerly to absorb what tylon lue was teaching him. for a superstar acted like this when got blowout(most stars would be angry and not want to learn at that humiliating time), you have to respect him. on the other hand, when bynum had foul trouble sitting ont he bench, on a he turned his head to speak with brown, they may talk about `the game, but when D12 was moving in front of him, he never bothered to pay attention, STILL looked at brown. i may reading too much into this, but i do feel bynum didn't like bball when he was young, bball is still not his biggest interest right now. NBA is just his way to earn fame and money, he may put a lot of time in practicing, but his heart is not all there, just like when we study, it is not how much time we spend on study, it is how to study and wether you are willing to learn. D12 definitely shoowed his wiliingness and earned a lot of respect from me


Come on, what are you ... a mind reader? You can't know what motivates Bynum. This is pure speculation and yes you are 'reading" waaay too much into that observation of Bynum on the bench.
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chilake24
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject:

Sister Golden Hair wrote:
chilake24 wrote:
DB,
i think the real difference between bynum and D12 is their attitude. today , i rewatched game1, in the 4th quarter, when D12 was ont he bench, he was just eagerly to absorb what tylon lue was teaching him. for a superstar acted like this when got blowout(most stars would be angry and not want to learn at that humiliating time), you have to respect him. on the other hand, when bynum had foul trouble sitting ont he bench, on a he turned his head to speak with brown, they may talk about `the game, but when D12 was moving in front of him, he never bothered to pay attention, STILL looked at brown. i may reading too much into this, but i do feel bynum didn't like bball when he was young, bball is still not his biggest interest right now. NBA is just his way to earn fame and money, he may put a lot of time in practicing, but his heart is not all there, just like when we study, it is not how much time we spend on study, it is how to study and wether you are willing to learn. D12 definitely shoowed his wiliingness and earned a lot of respect from me


Come on, what are you ... a mind reader? You can't know what motivates Bynum. This is pure speculation and yes you are 'reading" waaay too much into that observation of Bynum on the bench.


didn't expect get feedback from you. have to admit, DB and you are 2 of my most respected people here. learned a lot from reading your post. since you never felt that way, i am pretty relieved. hope with andrew's length and strength, we got the trophy we missed last year.
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Sister Golden Hair
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject:

chilake24 wrote:
Sister Golden Hair wrote:
chilake24 wrote:
DB,
i think the real difference between bynum and D12 is their attitude. today , i rewatched game1, in the 4th quarter, when D12 was ont he bench, he was just eagerly to absorb what tylon lue was teaching him. for a superstar acted like this when got blowout(most stars would be angry and not want to learn at that humiliating time), you have to respect him. on the other hand, when bynum had foul trouble sitting ont he bench, on a he turned his head to speak with brown, they may talk about `the game, but when D12 was moving in front of him, he never bothered to pay attention, STILL looked at brown. i may reading too much into this, but i do feel bynum didn't like bball when he was young, bball is still not his biggest interest right now. NBA is just his way to earn fame and money, he may put a lot of time in practicing, but his heart is not all there, just like when we study, it is not how much time we spend on study, it is how to study and wether you are willing to learn. D12 definitely shoowed his wiliingness and earned a lot of respect from me


Come on, what are you ... a mind reader? You can't know what motivates Bynum. This is pure speculation and yes you are 'reading" waaay too much into that observation of Bynum on the bench.


didn't expect get feedback from you. have to admit, DB and you are 2 of my most respected people here. learned a lot from reading your post. since you never felt that way, i am pretty relieved. hope with andrew's length and strength, we got the trophy we missed last year.


No biggie. I think Andrew has done pretty well coming into a difficult situation. Apparently, he needs a bit more strength work to get the leg back to 100%. You can tell that he doesn't have full explosiveness. I give him credit for coming back despite that, and trying to help the team. And he has helped. My bigger concern are the refs. people here like to dismiss the 1 or 2 or 3 bogus calls that Andrew gets charged with every game. But those 2 bogus calls a game spell the difference between playing maybe 10 minutes a game or 20. pretty huge difference.

ANdrew has work to do to conserve fouls, but it's a shame that the refs seem hell-bent on sending ghim to the puine minutes into each game. I saw way more egregious contact by Howard all game long and was shocked to see that going into the 4th, iirc, he only had two fouls. TWO!

Ridiculous. If the refs want to call it close, that's fine, but just call it both ways. If they want to let 'em play, that's fine too, but don't only let one side play. Just be consistent regardless of the quarter and the uniform color, and the fans can live with it. But calling a guy for breathing hurts the game and can earn the player an unwarranted rep. The last thing anyone wants is for Bynum to become Chris Mihm part 2.

SGH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject:

2
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject:

There are a lot of things to chew on based on last night’s game. Let’s start with the positives:

+ Excellent effort on D: The Lakers didn’t always play smart D, but the effort was there as it has been since game 5 against Denver. If the Lakers lost last night, then I would’ve lived with it considering it wouldn’t have been from a lack of effort.

+ Great intangibles from Fish: Fish made a lot of little plays that go unnoticed but contribute greatly to victories. He is the help defender that gives Howard the most trouble with his ability to dig in and knock the ball away. The jumper seems to have returned at the perfect time. Finally, Fish made some nice basketball plays on the offensive end that were huge bonuses (drawing a foul on Hedo, driving and dishing on a couple of plays, etc.). It’s great to have Fish contributing again in the Finals.

+ Underrated defense from Pau: Pau has really done a fantastic job of guarding Howard. He doesn’t have Drew’s ability to match Howard strength for strength, but Pau moves his feet extremely well and makes it easier for the Lakers to help on D. His D on Lewis has also been stellar given the fact that Lewis has not been able to take advantage of his speed against Pau. I also like Pau’s work on the boards. He’s making Howard really have to work to get those boards by using his full length to go after balls.

+ Great D from Ariza: Hedo had a solid game, but I like the way Trevor is guarding him. It’s pretty obvious to me that Hedo cannot get a step on Trevor and, as such, is resorting to using his off arm to create space for jumpshots. I’m glad the ref didn’t blow the whistle on the few occasions where Hedo and Trevor collided due to Hedo trying to initiate the contact and throwing out his off arm. For the most part, Trevor has stuck to the gameplan of running Hedo off the 3 and forcing him to take midrange 2s off the dribble. Also, you have to give Trevor a lot of credit for tapping numerous rebounds away from Howard. Dwight could’ve easily had 20+ board if Trevor didn’t tap more than handful away from him towards his own teammates.

+ Excellent offense from LO: LO was really locked in with his jumper last night, which is big for us because we really need to have that 3rd scorer to complement Kobe and Pau. When Lamar is aggressive, the Lakers are just about unbeatable.

As for the negatives:

- Poor rotations by Fish and LO: Fish is definitely the weak link on defense as he occasionally gets caught spectating, and as a result, is a step slow when he need to rotate to a perimeter shooter. Fish has been doing a great job of helping on Howard, but he needs to be aware of who the open shooters are especially Lewis. LO has been the Lakers best overall team defender throughout the playoffs, but he definitely had moments of poor judgment on defense. He was in no-man’s land too often in the 2nd quarter, which is inexcusable given the fact that he’s guarding Orlando’s best shooter. We need him to be locked in mentally on defense because that’s the difference between going into the half up by 5 or double digits. At the end of the game, he also gave up an uncontested 2 to Hedo (almost a 3) that nearly cost the Lakers the game. There was only a few seconds on the shotclock, and LO inexplicably took a huge step back towards the paint while Hedo was handling the ball, which resulted in a wide open J. LO is inclined to err on the side of denying penetration, but he has to use better judgment against Orlando.

- Subpar decision-making from Kobe: Kobe didn’t have his best game, and most of his bad decisions came when Orlando had Hedo guarding him. There were a couple of very bad shot attempts where he pounded the ball for too long and took an off balanced, contested J. There were a couple of drives where it seemed like Kobe was forcing the issue rather than reading the D. As a result, Kobe drove into traffic and got stripped. Also, the last play of regulation was just a poor decision in terms of taking the final shot with 4 defenders on him rather than passing it to a wide open LO only a few feet away. Still, I’m glad Kobe got this average game out of his system and acknowledged that he didn’t have a great performance. I think he’s going to make the necessary adjustments for tomorrow’s game.

Overall, I think the Lakers are in prime position to steal tomorrow’s game. Orlando made some great adjustments from game 1 to game 2, and I don’t see them changing too much. The Lakers, on the other hand, have an advantage because they have the opportunity to make adjustment on both sides of the ball. The offense was extremely stagnant for most of the game, and the defense had plenty of lapses that should be correctable for tomorrow’s game. If the Lakers play with the same kind of effort they’ve been playing with for the past 4 games and make better decisions on both sides of the ball, I think they’ll be able to pull out the win tomorrow…
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Klone_dd
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject:

Sometimes it's better to be lucky. Orl had many opportunities to take the game. Lee missed two point blank shots in crunch time. Howard deflects Fish's pass, but it still gets to Pau. Had the ball bounced another way, we're tied 1-1.

Offense sputtered most of the game. The D on Howard was great; on everyone else, not so much. Both Hedo and Lewis got off. They are going to be trouble in FL. Also, their guards will shoot better at home.

Kobe didn't have an MVP like game. 7 TO's, but he was very aggressive going to the basket resulting in FTs. Pau was again very steady on both ends of the floor. Can't appreciate any player any more. He's just a very complete, complimentary and heady guy. Now he's performing on the biggest of stages -- so I hope he gets the recognition he deserves.

LO was nails offensively. When he's got the jumper working, it's Odomination time. Defensively, yes, he lost sight of Lewis in the 2nd Q, but, like everyone, he was concentrating more on helping the post. There was a lot of confusion on who was supposed to close out on the bombers. Too many times it was Fish who can't affect any shot.

DFish was the star of the game. Vet savvy in full effect.
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Scherm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject:

All in all, it was a great win. I doubt that Lewis will get 34 next game. And Trevor won't shoot 3-13 either.

I'm holding out for a close-out in Orlando, and a parade back here.
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Burgundy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject:

Sister Golden Hair wrote:
I honestly don't see why Sasha gets ANY minutes these days. That ship has sailed in everyone's eyes but PJ's. I had problems with Farmar's minutes because I thought he was playing selfishly -- like a guy auditioning for a new contract. It hurt the team. Shannon needs to get more minutes at the expense of both of these guys. If I have to choose between Farmar or Sasha, however, I play Farmar limited minutes as long as he plays under control, and unselfishly. I don't think Sasha adds anything and insteda hurts the team even in limited minutes.


I was just about to post this very thing.

I know Brown appears to be incredibly mature for his age, and has a great attitude, but he's still a 23 year old kid who's still learning the triangle, right?

So why in the world would Phil think it's okay to just throw out a 23 year old kid who's still learning the offense in the 4th Q of an NBA Finals Game, when he hasn't had any minutes up to that point?

His first minutes are in the 4th Q of a tight game in the NBA FREAKING FINALS, and he's supposed to be effective?

Sasha is an absolute disaster, and Farmar, despite the fact that it's the NBA Finals, still appears to be gunning for a contract ("I'm going to be playing 10 minutes, so I need to score 10 points.").

Why not switch up the rotation so that Brown comes in with Farmar instead of Sasha, so Brown can get in the Flow of the game? He'll have a chance to be more successful in the 4th Q.

Sub pattern, at this point, should be:

Unit 1:
Fish
Kobe
Ariza
Pau
Bynum

Unit 2:
Fish
Kobe
Ariza
Lamar
Pau

Unit 3:
Farmar
Brown
Luke
Lamar
Bynum

Unit 4:
Brown
Kobe
Luke
Lamar
Pau

Obviously, Unit's 1 and 2 get 75% of the time, but I've set up Unit 3 and Unit 4 that way for the following reasons:

1) Farmar needs to play with Bynum instead of Pau, because Bynum's a better presense in the lane, and Lord knows Farmar is going to let his man get in the lane.

2) Farmar plays as little as possible - only while Kobe is resting - then Farmar goes out and Brown switches to point guard.

Depending on how Luke is playing - you can substitute luke for ariza in Unit 1 or 2.

And yes, this is an 8 man rotation. It's the NBA Freaking Finals. Phil shouldn't be playing more than 8 guys.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject:

targetman wrote:
Bynum seems to have problems with his body control. Some of the fouls he did commit were clumsy and off balance. And he needs to keep his arms straight up when he defends--there is a ref with a whistle watching to see if he moves them down even just a little.


I don't believe Drew's knee is close to being healed up as the team has let on. In the second quarter, against their backup center, Drew had good position on him but when he turned to his left shoulder (pushing off his right knee) his knee buckled. That lead to the 3 second call.

It reminded me of the season Kobe came off summer knee surgery and got crossed up a few games into the season and his knee buckled and he fell on his butt.

He does need to do better still.
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najim
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject:

this game re-enforced one key truth about basketball in my mind: the CHANCE/LUCK element is so freaking huge in basektball. Lee's layup bounces on the opposite side of the rim, it goes in. The refs put 0.5 more seconds on the clock, Howard's put back is in. Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis missed two very in and out shots in OT, that's a matter of an inch or two. It's amazing when you think about it, all the blood sweat and tears put in by both teams to make the game evenly matched and closely fought, so that in the end, it comes down to rolls and inches.

How can you not tip your hat to your opponent on a well-fought game after these shots rolled in and out on them?
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Gallofa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!

Well done everyone! Way to hang in there and get the win. This is probably going to be Kobe's worst match of the playoffs, you realise
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mefor3
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject:

LAST!!!


good win Lakers....wheeeew

One thing i noticed about Kobe's performance, when he doesn't get his break at begining of the 4th quarter he looks very tired towards the end of the game missing shots and turning over the ball...last night was no exception
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Laker7 wrote:
Phil needs Bynum to stay on the floor BAD. Was it me or did Lewis do most of his damage with Lamar on him and Pau on Howard? Lewis seemed a lot less effective when Pau guarding him.
It semed like it. Some bad rotations. He got sucked into the paint on the PnR a bit, but he had some where he just biffed it on his own. One where he didn't rotate at all and two others that he was there, but didn't make Lewis shoot over him by sticking his hands up. Got to use that length, LO.
He picked some fouls where he left his feet on a smaller player where he could have just raised his hands to make them shoot over him. At 21, he doesn't have the knowledge on playing "clean" - especially against a strong player like Superman. What's interesting is that he is getting fouls while not playing against a player that has any post moves?!?!?
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