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ChefLinda
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 Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: |
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No matter what you think of Pence, this is very scary. The cop that diverted that mob is actually someone who SHOULD receive the presidential medal of honor. The sad thing is how Pence went right back to covering for Trump.
Washington Post: How the rioters who stormed the Capitol came dangerously close to Pence
| Quote: | Secret Service officers eventually spirited Pence to a room off the Senate floor with his wife and daughter after rioters began to pour into the Capitol, many loudly denouncing the vice president as a traitor as they marched through the first floor below the Senate chamber.
About one minute after Pence was hustled out of the chamber, a group charged up the stairs to a second-floor landing in the Senate, chasing a Capitol Police officer who drew them away from the Senate.
Pence and his family had just ducked into a hideaway less than 100 feet from that landing, according to three people familiar with his whereabouts, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. If the pro-Trump mob had arrived seconds earlier, the attackers would have been in eyesight of the vice president as he was rushed across a reception hall into the office.
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| Quote: | Twice the vice president’s agents told Pence that they recommended he and his immediate entourage evacuate the Capitol, according to two people briefed on the episode.
Pence declined the recommendation both times, saying he did not want to be driven out of his own office and the Capitol building by an unruly mob, the people said.
The third time, Secret Service didn’t give Pence a choice, the people said. Detail agents told Pence they were all going — that instant.
They left the office for a secure room in the Capitol complex. The evacuation route they took is unknown. A group of snipers on the counter-assault team that travels with Pence would have scoped out the path and ensured it was clear. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1
Speaker Pelosi has asked ret. Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré to investigate the security of the U.S. Capitol following last week's insurrection. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Michael Beschloss @BeschlossDC
Like a three-year-old staging a tantrum because it’s not his birthday. Trump has asked for a major send-off on Inauguration Day next week,” reports CNN. |
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angrypuppy
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trmiv
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: |
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The $2,000 Harris was proposing in that article and this $2,000 are separate things. She was proposing $2,000 a month back in May, which I agree with. What AOC is doing is using $600+$1400 does not equal $2,000 as a way to criticize Biden when she herself was behind amending the $600 to $2000. I agree people that need it should get more, but her disingenuous attack line of “$1,400 is not $2,000” when she clearly knows the intent of the $1,400 is not helpful. Now if she wants to talk about this $1400 being a start, and that additional payments are needed going forward, I think that is a valid point. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: |
The $2,000 Harris was proposing in that article and this $2,000 are separate things. She was proposing $2,000 a month back in May, which I agree with. What AOC is doing is using $600+$1400 does not equal $2,000 as a way to criticize Biden when she herself was behind amending the $600 to $2000. I agree people that need it should get more, but her disingenuous attack line of “$1,400 is not $2,000” when she clearly knows the intent of the $1,400 is not helpful. Now if she wants to talk about this $1400 being a start, and that additional payments are needed going forward, I think that is a valid point. |
If that is actually her message, then yes, it is indeed intellectually dishonest and not helpful. If Dems and the Left are going to have any shot at getting this next administration out of the gates successfully and with positive momentum, infighting (especially disingenuous infighting) is not the appropriate path.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
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In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm hearing Trump may pardon those arrested for the siege on the Capitol Building. I think if you don't charge a person within 72 hours you have to release them. Is it possible to hold charging them until Trump leaves office? Can he pardon them for all federal crimes?
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Last edited by jodeke on Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: |
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AOC and Biden (both wings of the party) need to work this shiet behind close door, no more negative tweets toward each other please, let Biden get as much stuff pass the next 2 yrs then take ur gloves off
Btw, Comey on MSNBC saying all the right things but man, this guy helps trump elected last time, still wrong |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I have no problem with AOC and other progressives disagreeing with Biden. There aren't any important elections for another 2 years. Now is the best time for intra-party debate. As long as everyone votes the same way at the end of the day.
And if progressives magically turned $2000 stimulus checks into $2600 stimulus check. I think that would be a good thing. People need all the help they can get during this time.
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trmiv
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I have no problem with AOC and other progressives disagreeing with Biden. There aren't any important elections for another 2 years. Now is the best time for intra-party debate. As long as everyone votes the same way at the end of the day.
And if progressives magically turned $2000 stimulus checks into $2600 stimulus check. I think that would be a good thing. People need all the help they can get during this time. |
I don’t have a problem with it either. What I do have a problem with is Twitter callouts and going to the media with disingenuous arguments. Discuss it with them internally. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I have no problem with AOC and other progressives disagreeing with Biden. There aren't any important elections for another 2 years. Now is the best time for intra-party debate. As long as everyone votes the same way at the end of the day.
And if progressives magically turned $2000 stimulus checks into $2600 stimulus check. I think that would be a good thing. People need all the help they can get during this time. |
No one is disputing that. The question is how they go about it. I disagree that it is OK to start infighting right out of the gate "because there aren't an elections for two years". Entering into disingenuous territory in oder to attack Biden's plan is not productive "debate" and sows the seeds of intra-party division and disruption at a time when things need to be as cooperative as possible. There's just too much to do in these initial months.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I have no problem with AOC and other progressives disagreeing with Biden. There aren't any important elections for another 2 years. Now is the best time for intra-party debate. As long as everyone votes the same way at the end of the day.
And if progressives magically turned $2000 stimulus checks into $2600 stimulus check. I think that would be a good thing. People need all the help they can get during this time. |
I don’t have a problem with it either. What I do have a problem with is Twitter callouts and going to the media with disingenuous arguments. Discuss it with them internally. |
So now we're regulating what progressives can tweet?! Nah. She and other progressives can express their views on twitter if they like. Biden already won. We have a majority in both houses of Congress.
Just like when the ACA was passed and progressives said they wished it was more, but they still supported it. This is fine in my opinion.
Now if she called Biden a liar. Attacked his character. And refused to support the bill when it goes to a vote. Than I'd have a problem.
This actually plays into Biden's narrative nicely. He's good cop. She's bad cop. Conservatives are already complaining about the size of Biden's bill. Now he can say he's meeting halfway between what all sides want.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | No one is disputing that. The question is how they go about it. I disagree that it is OK to start infighting right out of the gate "because there aren't an elections for two years". Entering into disingenuous territory in oder to attack Biden's plan is not productive "debate" and sows the seeds of intra-party division and disruption at a time when things need to be as cooperative as possible. There's just too much to do in these initial months. |
Ya'll are policing the (bleep) out of her tweets, saying it's disingenuous without proof (unless you guys are mind readers), and assigning some sort of abstract harm to a pretty normal intraparty debate.
Politicians explain their perspective to the public all the time. I'm going to remember this standard moving forward if anybody, at any time, disagrees with anybody within the party in a public forum. lol
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trmiv
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Stuff like “$2,000 does not mean $1,400” and Cori Bush tweeting “$1400 not equal $2000” is disingenuous. They both know exactly what the intent of the $1400 is.
Now if they want to argue “$1,400 proposed by the President elect is a great start to get us to the $2,000 we wanted, but given the time that will pass between the $600 checks and this new plan, I think we should take the opportunity to increase the amount to $2,000 to get everyone the help they need, and I will bring this up with our leadership.” |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| AOC might be right but can we just get things straightened out this next 2 yrs, don’t give ammo to McConnell, pass as many things possible, even if it’s somewhat corporate or ‘compromise’... just get trump stench outta there |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I'm hearing Trump may pardon those arrested for the siege on the Capitol Building. I think if you don't charge a person within 72 hours you have to release them. Is it possible to hold charging them until Trump leaves office? Can he pardon them for all federal crimes? |
1 - They can charge them at any time within the statute of limitations, so they can be released now and charged on January 23.
2 - Presumptive pardons (for crimes not charged) have been issued, but there's a school of thought that they're unconstitutional and may not stand if challenged in court.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Washington Post: Trump’s GOP has an ugly authoritarian core. A new poll exposes it.
| Quote: | The poll contains good news and bad news. The good news is that large majorities are standing up for democracy and the legitimacy of our election, and believe Trump should be held accountable for inciting violent warfare on our political system and, indeed, on our country.
The bad news is that large majorities of Republicans are very much on board with much of what Trump has done. |
| Quote: | By 66 percent to 30 percent, overall Americans say Trump acted irresponsibly in his statements and actions since the election. But Republicans say Trump acted responsibly by 66 percent to 29 percent.
By 62 percent to 31 percent, Americans say there’s no solid evidence of the claims of voter fraud that Trump cited to refuse to accept Joe Biden’s victory. But Republicans say there is solid evidence of fraud by 65 percent to 25 percent.
57 percent of Americans say Trump bears a great deal or good amount of responsibility for the assault on the Capitol. But 56 percent of Republicans say Trump bears no responsibility at all, and another 22 percent say he bears just some, totaling 78 percent who largely exonerate him.
52 percent of Americans say Republican leaders went too far in supporting Trump’s efforts to overturn the election. But 51 percent of Republicans say GOP leaders didn’t go far enough, while 27 percent say they got it right, a total of 78 percent who are fully on board or wanted more. Only 16 percent of Republicans say they went too far. |
Embarrassing and disgraceful. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | AOC might be right but can we just get things straightened out this next 2 yrs, don’t give ammo to McConnell, pass as many things possible, even if it’s somewhat corporate or ‘compromise’... just get trump stench outta there |
Ya'll are acting like this is holding up the bill or something. Biden isn't sworn in. Neither are the Georgia Senators.
This is exactly when this conversation should happen. And do I really have to make a list of every time in the past, people within a party have brought up issues they've had with a bill before eventually voting for it. The list would be HUGE. This is standard.
Ya'll should be worried about Joe Manchin if passing as many things as possible is the goal.
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Last edited by kikanga on Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:26 am; edited 3 times in total |
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trmiv
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Washington Post: Trump’s GOP has an ugly authoritarian core. A new poll exposes it.
| Quote: | The poll contains good news and bad news. The good news is that large majorities are standing up for democracy and the legitimacy of our election, and believe Trump should be held accountable for inciting violent warfare on our political system and, indeed, on our country.
The bad news is that large majorities of Republicans are very much on board with much of what Trump has done. |
| Quote: | By 66 percent to 30 percent, overall Americans say Trump acted irresponsibly in his statements and actions since the election. But Republicans say Trump acted responsibly by 66 percent to 29 percent.
By 62 percent to 31 percent, Americans say there’s no solid evidence of the claims of voter fraud that Trump cited to refuse to accept Joe Biden’s victory. But Republicans say there is solid evidence of fraud by 65 percent to 25 percent.
57 percent of Americans say Trump bears a great deal or good amount of responsibility for the assault on the Capitol. But 56 percent of Republicans say Trump bears no responsibility at all, and another 22 percent say he bears just some, totaling 78 percent who largely exonerate him.
52 percent of Americans say Republican leaders went too far in supporting Trump’s efforts to overturn the election. But 51 percent of Republicans say GOP leaders didn’t go far enough, while 27 percent say they got it right, a total of 78 percent who are fully on board or wanted more. Only 16 percent of Republicans say they went too far. |
Embarrassing and disgraceful. |
I’m all for sending 60 something percent of Republicans to Russia or North Korea. Those are their kinds of governments. Seems like a match made in hell. These yokels will never change, they are far too gone.
“Send them back!” |
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Ya'll should be worried about Joe Manchin. |
Yeah, he has Lieberman written all over him.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Ya'll should be worried about Joe Manchin. |
Yeah, he has Lieberman written all over him. |
He's the only type of Democrat who could win West Virginia. Republican-lite.
We're gonna have to bribe the crap out of his state to get anything done the next 2 years. West Virginia is gonna look like the Jetson's universe by the time it's 2022.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | Stuff like “$2,000 does not mean $1,400” and Cori Bush tweeting “$1400 not equal $2000” is disingenuous. They both know exactly what the intent of the $1400 is.
Now if they want to argue “$1,400 proposed by the President elect is a great start to get us to the $2,000 we wanted, but given the time that will pass between the $600 checks and this new plan, I think we should take the opportunity to increase the amount to $2,000 to get everyone the help they need, and I will bring this up with our leadership.” |
The funny thing is AOC was involved in working on a bill to make up the other 1400, so she knows exactly what she’s doing and that it’s dishonest. This is why I don’t care for her. She’s a self serving demagogue who just got done being hunted in the Capitol by the real enemy, and a week later she’s back to attacking her leadership.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Stuff like “$2,000 does not mean $1,400” and Cori Bush tweeting “$1400 not equal $2000” is disingenuous. They both know exactly what the intent of the $1400 is.
Now if they want to argue “$1,400 proposed by the President elect is a great start to get us to the $2,000 we wanted, but given the time that will pass between the $600 checks and this new plan, I think we should take the opportunity to increase the amount to $2,000 to get everyone the help they need, and I will bring this up with our leadership.” |
The funny thing is AOC was involved in working on a bill to make up the other 1400, so she knows exactly what she’s doing and that it’s dishonest. This is why I don’t care for her. She’s a self serving demagogue who just got done being hunted in the Capitol by the real enemy, and a week later she’s back to attacking her leadership. |
For the record. Are Cori Bush, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib and other members of the CPC demagogues as well for agreeing with her?
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Last edited by kikanga on Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | FernieBee wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Ya'll should be worried about Joe Manchin. |
Yeah, he has Lieberman written all over him. |
He's the only type of Democrat who could win West Virginia. Republican-lite.
We're gonna have to bribe the crap out of his state to get anything done the next 2 years. West Virginia is gonna look like the Jetson's universe by the time it's 2022. |
I’m confident there are deals to be made with him, but the big problem is anything that’s going to either hurt his standing in his state or lose him the leverage he has. Things like DC statehood.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I’m confident there are deals to be made with him, but the big problem is anything that’s going to either hurt his standing in his state or lose him the leverage he has. Things like DC statehood. |
I hope you are right. I just remember the crap Blue Dog Democrats pulled during the ACA negotiations. And it left a bad taste in my mouth.
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