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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16923
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | I'm optimistic but not getting my hopes up too high for his defense. I noticed he guarded LeBron well at the rim on opening night and stopped him from scoring 2 or 3 times. But watching more games, he gets lost a LOT on pretty simple defensive actions. Part of the reason he probably wanted to leave was because Kawhi would snap at him pretty often. Hopefully he can improve on this team with this staff but don't be shocked if he looks embarrassingly bad on that end at times. |
I'm not worried about his defense at all. The circumstances w/the clipppers are much different. Him getting lost on D might be because of poor communication rather than defensive intelligence. We have now found out that there was a lot of tension & resentment in their locker room. Tension and resentment will affect communication.
Besides intelligence, defense is about communication, desire and it helps to have awesome athleticism. We have that here. They didn't. |
That would be great. I just wouldn't expect all his issues to vanish because he's a Laker now. His defense was problematic before Kawhi and PG showed up. |
Now we can judge him under a good defensive coach |
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LakerDYnasty72 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4579
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | I'm optimistic but not getting my hopes up too high for his defense. I noticed he guarded LeBron well at the rim on opening night and stopped him from scoring 2 or 3 times. But watching more games, he gets lost a LOT on pretty simple defensive actions. Part of the reason he probably wanted to leave was because Kawhi would snap at him pretty often. Hopefully he can improve on this team with this staff but don't be shocked if he looks embarrassingly bad on that end at times. |
I'm not worried about his defense at all. The circumstances w/the clipppers are much different. Him getting lost on D might be because of poor communication rather than defensive intelligence. We have now found out that there was a lot of tension & resentment in their locker room. Tension and resentment will affect communication.
Besides intelligence, defense is about communication, desire and it helps to have awesome athleticism. We have that here. They didn't. |
That would be great. I just wouldn't expect all his issues to vanish because he's a Laker now. His defense was problematic before Kawhi and PG showed up. |
Three reasons I'm not worried: (1) intelligent coach (2) so many other options should he prove to be a misfit on D , and (3) Anthony Davis & LeBron James. |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: |
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LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | I'm optimistic but not getting my hopes up too high for his defense. I noticed he guarded LeBron well at the rim on opening night and stopped him from scoring 2 or 3 times. But watching more games, he gets lost a LOT on pretty simple defensive actions. Part of the reason he probably wanted to leave was because Kawhi would snap at him pretty often. Hopefully he can improve on this team with this staff but don't be shocked if he looks embarrassingly bad on that end at times. |
I'm not worried about his defense at all. The circumstances w/the clipppers are much different. Him getting lost on D might be because of poor communication rather than defensive intelligence. We have now found out that there was a lot of tension & resentment in their locker room. Tension and resentment will affect communication.
Besides intelligence, defense is about communication, desire and it helps to have awesome athleticism. We have that here. They didn't. |
That would be great. I just wouldn't expect all his issues to vanish because he's a Laker now. His defense was problematic before Kawhi and PG showed up. |
Three reasons I'm not worried: (1) intelligent coach (2) so many other options should he prove to be a misfit on D , and (3) Anthony Davis & LeBron James. |
We used to see the Kobe Effect on players. When players were on the court with Kobe, they played above themselves. In my opinion, we saw the LeBron Effect last season--especially on Caruso. It will be interesting to see how LBJ, AD and maybe even DS up the play of Harrell. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46784
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alleyoop Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018 Posts: 3861
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/Ralph_MasonJr/status/1332601901292998657 |
I can’t believe I’ve gone from full on hating on Trezz to him becoming one of my favourite guys lol. Seems like he really wanted to be a Laker
It’s D39 all over again, but this time before the season’s even started lol _________________ #18 next... |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46784
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: |
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alleyoop wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/Ralph_MasonJr/status/1332601901292998657 |
I can’t believe I’ve gone from full on hating on Trezz to him becoming one of my favourite guys lol. Seems like he really wanted to be a Laker
It’s D39 all over again, but this time before the season’s even started lol |
Yeah mad respect to Trezz if he ended up declining the 80M offer from CHA to join us that’s pretty crazy. |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:54 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | Halflife wrote: | Funny. Pre pg, kl, the clippers were known as a gritty team with great chemistry and supposedly docs best year of coaching. Imo doc left because he didn’t want to coach those two guys. |
He was fired. Ballmer is a smart man. He knows when to cut his losses quickly. Maybe he'll eventually sell the Clippers too if he was that smart. Nick Nurse was able to coach Kawhi and a lot less to a championship. Doc couldn't even get to the WCF with a much better team. |
Pascal
Serge at the tail end of his prime
Marc
Lowery
FVV
No LBJ to go against
Sixers took them to the last shot in a game 7
Had KL simply joined the existing team they would have been beastly...but he want PG and they gave up SGA, Danillo, and way too many picks to grab a chemistry crushing mental midget. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
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CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4818
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: |
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LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | I'm optimistic but not getting my hopes up too high for his defense. I noticed he guarded LeBron well at the rim on opening night and stopped him from scoring 2 or 3 times. But watching more games, he gets lost a LOT on pretty simple defensive actions. Part of the reason he probably wanted to leave was because Kawhi would snap at him pretty often. Hopefully he can improve on this team with this staff but don't be shocked if he looks embarrassingly bad on that end at times. |
I'm not worried about his defense at all. The circumstances w/the clipppers are much different. Him getting lost on D might be because of poor communication rather than defensive intelligence. We have now found out that there was a lot of tension & resentment in their locker room. Tension and resentment will affect communication.
Besides intelligence, defense is about communication, desire and it helps to have awesome athleticism. We have that here. They didn't. |
That would be great. I just wouldn't expect all his issues to vanish because he's a Laker now. His defense was problematic before Kawhi and PG showed up. |
Three reasons I'm not worried: (1) intelligent coach (2) so many other options should he prove to be a misfit on D , and (3) Anthony Davis & LeBron James. |
Lebron and AD are both good team defender to compensate for Trez defensive shortcomings. I think Trez defense will be better as Vogel defensive scheme is more tactical. Now he can afford to be more aggressive as he will have AD to erase his mistakes. Also our team is solid collectively. The Clips have better individual on ball defenders but our players are better team defenders. |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
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The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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lordtrapula Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Posts: 731
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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I trust Handy, Vogel, and Hollins to do great work at maximizing him.
He's a flawed player, but there's still a lot of potential to squeeze out. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16923
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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the trezz slander is amazing. 6th man of the year and prior to PG/KL signing he was part of a team that way overachieved with zero chemistry issues. Though the stats were hollow he was their best player in game 7 against the nuggs.
He brings everything we need. |
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LakerDYnasty72 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4579
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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CRoost wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | manlisten wrote: | I'm optimistic but not getting my hopes up too high for his defense. I noticed he guarded LeBron well at the rim on opening night and stopped him from scoring 2 or 3 times. But watching more games, he gets lost a LOT on pretty simple defensive actions. Part of the reason he probably wanted to leave was because Kawhi would snap at him pretty often. Hopefully he can improve on this team with this staff but don't be shocked if he looks embarrassingly bad on that end at times. |
I'm not worried about his defense at all. The circumstances w/the clipppers are much different. Him getting lost on D might be because of poor communication rather than defensive intelligence. We have now found out that there was a lot of tension & resentment in their locker room. Tension and resentment will affect communication.
Besides intelligence, defense is about communication, desire and it helps to have awesome athleticism. We have that here. They didn't. |
That would be great. I just wouldn't expect all his issues to vanish because he's a Laker now. His defense was problematic before Kawhi and PG showed up. |
Three reasons I'm not worried: (1) intelligent coach (2) so many other options should he prove to be a misfit on D , and (3) Anthony Davis & LeBron James. |
Lebron and AD are both good team defender to compensate for Trez defensive shortcomings. I think Trez defense will be better as Vogel defensive scheme is more tactical. Now he can afford to be more aggressive as he will have AD to erase his mistakes. Also our team is solid collectively. The Clips have better individual on ball defenders but our players are better team defenders. |
I do love the fact that one very good team defender (Danny Green) has been replaced by a better on ball defender (Matthews). Matthews is a much better match up against Leonard. He's just as savvy as Green but much stronger. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67839 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Can't wait till the Lakers meet the Sail Boat Boys. Trez is gonna be super pumped. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12725
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
I challenge anyone to provide proof of these supposed defensive deficiencies.
Video...ststs...advanced stats...literally anything.
We have tons of videos in this thread that dispell this myth.
We have advanced stats that confirm his defensive prowess when Lou isnt on the floor with him.
If you're going to promote a narrative rather than be objective...back it up with something more that a regurgitation of a myth please.
Facts still matter...even in 2020. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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CervantesRises wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
I challenge anyone to provide proof of these supposed defensive deficiencies.
Video...ststs...advanced stats...literally anything.
We have tons of videos in this thread that dispell this myth.
We have advanced stats that confirm his defensive prowess when Lou isnt on the floor with him.
If you're going to promote a narrative rather than be objective...back it up with something more that a regurgitation of a myth please.
Facts still matter...even in 2020. |
Of course defensive highlight tapes aren't going to focus on his lapses. I understand he's a Laker and the homerism that comes with that but that doesn't mean he never had any flaws. They were very evident if you watched even a handful of Clipper games. Being objective includes being critical. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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markjay Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 3926 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
All true, except that (a) Gasol is as good on defense as Howard, (b) Matthew is as good on defense, or maybe better, than Green, and (c), Schroeder is better on defense than Rondo. And anyone can give us as much on defense as Bradley gave us in the bubble.
That leaves Harrell compared to McGee. All indications are that Trezz can be much better than McGee on defense due to his speed, length, and ability to switch into wings. Trezz was overall great on defense in the minutes that Lou wasn’t on the floor — and we don’t have Lou on our team. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | Car54 wrote: | https://youtu.be/ky4KGpjh0tk
Montrezl putting up 15 in the 4th vs GSW in the playoffs. Schroder ability to score and usage of the pick and roll could be huge this season. |
Good stuff, cuh/cuddy. |
I'm glad training camp is days away and we don't have to wait months |
Same and I was already prepared for them LMing AD and/or Brawn for the first time in Month 1, so now they can do that w/ less angst. And fans will be more curious about them (and Caruso) than Brawn/AD for awhile anyway.
Caruso, Trezzay, and Schrew, mang. Who let the dawgs out?!1... That's gonna be a lotta fun and a lotta whoopass. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47601
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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His energy is infectious. Huge get for the Lakers, he is relentless and doesn't need to play against bigger players as much here. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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la4win Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2010 Posts: 2247
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLanny wrote: | His energy is infectious. Huge get for the Lakers, he is relentless and doesn't need to play against bigger players as much here. |
Yea I’m excited to watch him. He is going to feast playing with Bron. He is true example of some one you hate if he is on the other but love him if he is in your team. |
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hype Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4386 Location: Lake Nacimiento
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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markjay wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
All true, except that (a) Gasol is as good on defense as Howard, (b) Matthew is as good on defense, or maybe better, than Green, and (c), Schroeder is better on defense than Rondo. And anyone can give us as much on defense as Bradley gave us in the bubble.
That leaves Harrell compared to McGee. All indications are that Trezz can be much better than McGee on defense due to his speed, length, and ability to switch into wings. Trezz was overall great on defense in the minutes that Lou wasn’t on the floor — and we don’t have Lou on our team. |
Yup, agree completely. I absolutely don't get the defensive worrying whatsoever at least on paper. I do understand that they have to play and show that same kind of chemistry last years team showed but lets be real that is all starting at the top with AD, Lebron and the coaching staff.
I'll take Marc over McGee even at his age and it's not even close. I take Schroder over Rondo when looking at the full season and that Rondo is only getting older. We'll miss his bbiq at times but it's not like we still don't have a ton of it on this roster (we added another low key qb to the starters with Marc imo). Trezz is a much more complete player at this stage of there careers then Dwight. Dwight is clearly still the better defensive player but I believe Trezz can/will still play in every round of the Playoffs and his lack of an outside shot is nearly negated due to his activity and nonstop motor where if you sag off him too much to help he'll either crash for the offensive rebound or be able to receive a pass and get momentum going to the basket and probably get fouled or an easy shot much of the time.
Trezz can't guard maybe at most a hand full of 7 foot centers but he'll be fine against everyone else for the most part and he showed it pretty much all last season. Now he has 2 drastically better centers then the Clippers had to cover for those few guys so that criticism about him that has been beat to death since the signing is solved and will not happen on this roster.
People are overrating DG to death as well. Wes is at worst on par with him but you look at there regular season and playoff numbers and everything across the board is pretty comparable. In the Playoffs Wes had slightly higher numbers in nearly identical amount of minutes. In the regular season they're super close as well with DG having slightly higher numbers. Considering the huge salary difference i'd take Wes pretty easily. Plus we wont have to hear the whole woe is me act from DG on his Podcast which will be nice.
On the offensive side we're vastly improved to say the least which will also help with the defense. I don't see us having near record breaking 3 point games with this squad. That Schroder/Trezz p&r especially is going to be terrorizing second units all season long. |
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lordtrapula Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Jul 2015 Posts: 731
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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We lose some shotblocking, but this defense imo can be just as dangerous if not better imo
The defense gets smarter with the Matthews and Gasol signings and there is enough guys here to help Trezz (who has the tools) on his progression on that end of the floor. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
He definitely wasn'tone of clips bad defenders. An argument can be made he was the best one off the bench. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26593
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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lordtrapula wrote: | We lose some shotblocking |
he averaged 1.1 blocks a game while coming off the bench. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | CervantesRises wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | manlisten wrote: | The Clippers also had a top 5 defense heading into the bubble. His shortcomings won't keep us from being elite or winning a championship, I would just caution against expecting him to make some sort of quantum leap on that end. |
I think the issue some people have is that we lost a lot of defense in the outgoing players, and that makes Harrell's deficiency on defense stand out more. Dwight's activity was a momentum swinger, DG had a high IQ on that end and McGee brought some verticality.
Still, I think even if our defense takes a dip, we added so much firepower on the offensive end to more than make up for it. And I trust in Vogel to keep the team playing defense at a high level. |
I challenge anyone to provide proof of these supposed defensive deficiencies.
Video...ststs...advanced stats...literally anything.
We have tons of videos in this thread that dispell this myth.
We have advanced stats that confirm his defensive prowess when Lou isnt on the floor with him.
If you're going to promote a narrative rather than be objective...back it up with something more that a regurgitation of a myth please.
Facts still matter...even in 2020. |
Of course defensive highlight tapes aren't going to focus on his lapses. I understand he's a Laker and the homerism that comes with that but that doesn't mean he never had any flaws. They were very evident if you watched even a handful of Clipper games. Being objective includes being critical. |
Being objective includes providing visual or statistical evidence to support your pov.
Otherwise you're being critical just to be critical.
You have provided no evidence...so dont try to make the claim you're being objective.
Trez has over 4 minutes of defensive highlights from last season alone...I'd love to see how long DDRs is...what, 22 seconds?
GTFOH with that 'I'm being objective by being critical without any evidence' noise. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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