View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
LandsbergerRules wrote: | Wolfpac, I don't think it's an effort and energy issue with Kuz. It's his bball IQ and his shooting that are lacking. It's clear as day now that his 3 ball from summer league/the first part of his rookie year was a fluke. I don't see contract year motivation fixing those things. |
Those things aren’t fixable. He did give more effort on defense but was still fouling players on ball fakes because of his low IQ. Getting TOs after jumping with no where to pass the ball is low IQ. Unfortunately after going to a non-basketball school, he wasn’t taught fundamentals. Trade him if you get a good deal but if not, use him off the bench next season and if he wants a raise afterward, wish him good luck. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Utah isn't a basketball school? I mean Poetl/Wright/Chambers/Bogut/Miller/Van Horn probably have something to say. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4818
|
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Wolfpac, I don't think it's an effort and energy issue with Kuz. It's his bball IQ and his shooting that are lacking. It's clear as day now that his 3 ball from summer league/the first part of his rookie year was a fluke. I don't see contract year motivation fixing those things. |
Those things aren’t fixable. He did give more effort on defense but was still fouling players on ball fakes because of his low IQ. Getting TOs after jumping with no where to pass the ball is low IQ. Unfortunately after going to a non-basketball school, he wasn’t taught fundamentals. Trade him if you get a good deal but if not, use him off the bench next season and if he wants a raise afterward, wish him good luck. |
Lol non sense , how many players have improved their shooting. Too many smart ballers came from Utah. B-ball IQ is individual , not collectively. Fundamentals are not taught in college , they only reinforced it. Kuz making a leap defensively is more important for us then him getting touches. But next season Vogel would have all the leeway to incorporate his game for his development. This season was just not the right time as we have bigger fish to fry. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | Utah isn't a basketball school? I mean Poetl/Wright/Chambers/Bogut/Miller/Van Horn probably have something to say. |
Utah is a football school, Utah is a football state. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
|
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are endless numbers of players who go from poor IQ players in their 20s to high IQ championship role players in their early 30s. There are also tons of players who flame out. Kuz at least has shown improvement in his IQ and defense, even if it isn't where we would want it to be yet.
I would guess he is traded before next season but we will see. I think he can offer more on a different team than this one, but he also has an opportunity here to make himself into a 3/D guy, so we will see. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01 Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001 Posts: 1703
|
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Utah isn't a basketball school? I mean Poetl/Wright/Chambers/Bogut/Miller/Van Horn probably have something to say. |
Utah is a football school, Utah is a football state. |
Utah may be a football state, but the Utes have comparable tradition in both, and the basketball team has done better of late. Utes football had zero wins against ranked teams in 2020, despite finishing with a stellar record. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
|
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It’s kind of sad how hard he is trying to stay in LA through social media |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58419
|
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
PayasoLoco wrote: | It’s kind of sad how hard he is trying to stay in LA through social media |
I am no big Kuzma supporter in terms of a trade, meaning if we get upgrade in value, I'll pack his bags,
But perhaps he legit loves it and being a Laker/LA guy? From all accounts, majority of players who are Lakers, want to stay Lakers, when things go right.
Think someone like Kuz would put up 18 points easy on a worse team, and better role for him. In games AD was not available, Kuz averaged like 18-20 IIRC. If he wants to stay in LA, it also shows he's less about his personal stats than some realize. Again, I'd pack his bags for him in an upgrade, but I certainly am not bummed out that the Lakers have a 25 year old who improved his defense and has an ability to go off and get you 20 points if given minutes, making around about vet min money. Very few contenders have 25 year olds like that on their bench. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
_#1_ Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 4757 Location: Next door to 24
|
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The shocker is Kuz had more impact on defense. That does leave a small glimmer of hope for his offense (it stunk) which comes far more naturally to him. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 7050
|
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
For his salary, I don't mind keeping Kuz... I'll give him new life since we won the title... See if he settles down and play/shoot better next year since he should have less pressure. Also his defense looks improved. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
So now they’re saying he’s expecting, hoping for a sizable contract. Not worth huge money. JC got something around 10-12 iirc. I wouldn’t go much higher than that tbh. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12698
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Luminous8 wrote: | So now they’re saying he’s expecting, hoping for a sizable contract. Not worth huge money. JC got something around 10-12 iirc. I wouldn’t go much higher than that tbh. |
I wouldn't go that high for him. Some team might. I'd trade him now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
wolfpaclaker wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | It’s kind of sad how hard he is trying to stay in LA through social media |
I am no big Kuzma supporter in terms of a trade, meaning if we get upgrade in value, I'll pack his bags,
But perhaps he legit loves it and being a Laker/LA guy? From all accounts, majority of players who are Lakers, want to stay Lakers, when things go right.
Think someone like Kuz would put up 18 points easy on a worse team, and better role for him. In games AD was not available, Kuz averaged like 18-20 IIRC. If he wants to stay in LA, it also shows he's less about his personal stats than some realize. Again, I'd pack his bags for him in an upgrade, but I certainly am not bummed out that the Lakers have a 25 year old who improved his defense and has an ability to go off and get you 20 points if given minutes, making around about vet min money. Very few contenders have 25 year olds like that on their bench. |
It seems a lot of the enthusiasm for Kuzman is always about his age and salary. But he comes off his rookie contract this year, so that salary isn't going to matter much pretty soon.
And 25 isn't really that young in the NBA, especially not young for a guy who is trying to prove he's more than a average player. I mean, there are a lot of guys in the league his age or younger who are getting MVP votes and making all star teams.
He's quickly coming up to the point where he's just an NBA journeyman, rather than a hot young prospect |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58419
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
How on earth is a guy who is on 1 team in 3 years, averaged 13 ppg during RS, 10 ppg in the playoffs, 25 years old, again on 1 team, a NBA Journeyman? Before he played on a championship team, he was a 17-18 ppg scorer.
I really do not get the logic of him being a journeyman.
All-star, no.
Top 2 option on a good team, again, no.
Definitely would not give him an extension and he would be part of any trade package I was considering to move..... but I think if you look at the Lakers roster after AD/Bron. Kuzma is easily the 3rd best talent, but he has not put it together and it remains to be seen if he does ever fit in that role.
I certainly wouldn't be upset about having a 25 year old who has had 2 seasons in the NBA averaging 17-18 ppg, off the bench, for vet min money. Lets put it this way. If we wanted to sign a player of Kuzma's level, in free agency. Someone who has had 17-18 ppg seasons on bad teams, and a 13 ppg season on a ring team. What would the price tag? Likely we are talking 10M a year type of money. If all we get is 2 bargain years out of Kuzma, that's great. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gepetto Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 694
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. |
That's at least a tradeable asset as part of a disgruntled superstar kind of deal. Probably at least a slight positive for the receiving team. For those who are fans of trading for guys like Beal, contracts like this or what KCP will likely be getting are key. Also could be traded for cap space if necessary, and we get production until that day comes (if ever). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. |
That would be an overpay, I wouldn’t go 4 years but if we did, $20-24 mil. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. |
That would be an overpay, I wouldn’t go 4 years but if we did, $20-24 mil. |
I wouldn't overpay either but he's getting more than 4 years/20-24m. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. |
That would be an overpay, I wouldn’t go 4 years but if we did, $20-24 mil. |
I wouldn't overpay either but he's getting more than 4 years/20-24m. |
Then let him get it elsewhere. He is a good bench player and we should pay him as such. People say that Howard should get the vet min but want to pay Kuzma $12 mil. That is out of balance. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4818
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think he's looking for what Jordan Clarkson got, but adjusting to 2020 inflated salary cap numbers. So something like 4 years, 60m total. |
That would be an overpay, I wouldn’t go 4 years but if we did, $20-24 mil. |
I wouldn't overpay either but he's getting more than 4 years/20-24m. |
Average salary is around 9. He’s somewhere around that. Shop him around with Green for better deal and clear upgrade. If nothing interesting , just hold on as his cap hold is identical to average and he is cheap this year. Negotiate for good faith though then make him prove it next season. He either put it together and get paid accordingly . Hard to get a value back based on his salary and getting a pick is counterproductive to our win now mode. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18738 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I feel even if Kuz gets his money he could be a much better player this season.
A whole season learning how to get his shots playing alongside Lebron and AD. Playoffs and finals experience out the way.
This season could be the Kyle Kuzma we all hoped who would perform at a high level next to Bron and AD. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PlantedTanks Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017 Posts: 3156
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
KingKobe20 wrote: | I feel even if Kuz gets his money he could be a much better player this season.
A whole season learning how to get his shots playing alongside Lebron and AD. Playoffs and finals experience out the way.
This season could be the Kyle Kuzma we all hoped who would perform at a high level next to Bron and AD. |
As long as AD does not want to play center then Kuzma will be relegated to the bench. Not sure how much he shared the court with both this past season but I would assume either Lebron or AD rests when Kuzma is in.
Can he accept a bench role is my main concern. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22431 Location: Brazil
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In the current scenario is really hard to pay him more than $8M-ish per year |
|
Back to top |
|
|
waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6292 Location: Central Coast
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This could actually be a good signal and probably what Team Kuzma is doing. Seeing if some team like Detroit, Atlanta, OKC, Knicks, is interested in him beyond this year. Say its Detroit, who doesn't want to trade guys like Kennard or Rose, if part of the deal is Kuzma doesn't want to play there. Or the Lakers want to ship him there (or a place like OKC) , the Lakers say sign him to a 4 year $10 million a year deal, send him to OKC with Green and maybe McGee and Bradley or Cook. Save some of our players with a 4 player deal instead of a 6 player deal.
And Kuzma on a bad or rebuilding team, more shots, he is going to give you 15-20 ppg every night, plus his defense has improved, he is still young by culture standards, nice building piece in a small market.
Kuzma had been my favorite Laker for a few years, but if now is the time to get paid and he wants a big contract, lets help him find a good place to go, and we can maximize what we get in return. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
blackmamba08 Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015 Posts: 2616 Location: Croatia
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am not for trading him. He is nice piece to have for his value.
For me reasonable deal would be somewhere around 3yr/25 mil$. Everything above that is overpay which in this moment we don't need. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|