Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:10 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers. _________________ Under New Management
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.
19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.
19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.
Ayton at Arizona:
Wiseman at Memphis:
I'm not seeing a gap. As many issues as I had with Ayton coming out of college in 2018, I'd be comfortable taking him with the #1 pick in this draft. He has quicker feet than Wiseman and better offensive recognition and passing touch (going off of full games). _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:22 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Wiseman right now is Andris Biedrins with a clue about shooting. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.
19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.
Ayton at Arizona:
Wiseman at Memphis:
I'm not seeing a gap. As many issues as I had with Ayton coming out of college in 2018, I'd be comfortable taking him with the #1 pick in this draft. He has quicker feet than Wiseman and better offensive recognition and passing touch (going off of full games).
From these and other vids I still have the opinion Wiseman is the more agile fluid athlete with some SF skills. I do like Ayton but at this stage he is similar to the player I thought he would be.
With Ayton I don't see a 25+ scorer with all defensive ability and rim protection. I believe those are possible with Wiseman as he can play a more balanced inside-outside game and his agility allows him to be more impactful on defense and as a shot blocker.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Wiseman right now is Andris Biedrins with a clue about shooting.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
Except, Poku isn't a big, and legit played SG/SF/PF in his soft comp current league.
That is why I mentioned develop. For sure he is not an NBA SG and if he puts on the weight I anticipate he will he will be a perimeter oriented PF for the long term.
He could possibly morph into a form of Jokic with the passing skills and shooting ability. Just won't be able to battle in the paint as effectively.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
Except, Poku isn't a big, and legit played SG/SF/PF in his soft comp current league.
That is why I mentioned develop. For sure he is not an NBA SG and if he puts on the weight I anticipate he will he will be a perimeter oriented PF for the long term.
He could possibly morph into a form of Jokic with the passing skills and shooting ability. Just won't be able to battle in the paint as effectively.
He's not a 2, except at cheap leagues.
But the point is to bring guard skills with size. Yeah, he's a bit soft, and that's fine. That didn't stop Gallinari.
Difference here is, Poku has more advanced ball-handling and playmaking ability and is already showing motion shooting/guard footwork at his size.
We all know he's a project. Maybe the NBA is too fast for him. But that dude's upside is absurd. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Okay you lost me on this one.
High motor, rim runner, sub average lateral, wiry strength.
This is why DT isn't high on him and frankly I never really was. Unless you're a big that's a definitive scoring option (Ayton showed post skills/midrange J and was THE option for AZ), I think it's a big overpay for a pick and roll/dive center that rim protects near the rim, and not the perimeter. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
Except, Poku isn't a big, and legit played SG/SF/PF in his soft comp current league.
That is why I mentioned develop. For sure he is not an NBA SG and if he puts on the weight I anticipate he will he will be a perimeter oriented PF for the long term.
He could possibly morph into a form of Jokic with the passing skills and shooting ability. Just won't be able to battle in the paint as effectively.
He's not a 2, except at cheap leagues.
But the point is to bring guard skills with size. Yeah, he's a bit soft, and that's fine. That didn't stop Gallinari.
Difference here is, Poku has more advanced ball-handling and playmaking ability and is already showing motion shooting/guard footwork at his size.
We all know he's a project. Maybe the NBA is too fast for him. But that dude's upside is absurd.
In a way you are making my point which was (Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.).
I agree on Poku's talent and in the long game if he pans out he could be a multi faceted PF who also provides big man skills.
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.
19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.
Ayton at Arizona:
Wiseman at Memphis:
I'm not seeing a gap. As many issues as I had with Ayton coming out of college in 2018, I'd be comfortable taking him with the #1 pick in this draft. He has quicker feet than Wiseman and better offensive recognition and passing touch (going off of full games).
From these and other vids I still have the opinion Wiseman is the more agile fluid athlete with some SF skills. I do like Ayton but at this stage he is similar to the player I thought he would be.
With Ayton I don't see a 25+ scorer with all defensive ability and rim protection. I believe those are possible with Wiseman as he can play a more balanced inside-outside game and his agility allows him to be more impactful on defense and as a shot blocker.
Do you have examples of the SF skills?
I feel like it's 2018 again and KiROE is trying to convince me about how well Mo Bamba moves his feet on the perimeter. _________________ Under New Management
I just read an otherwise thoughtful draft analysis that called Precious Achiuwa a "freak athlete," and I think we use that phrase too much. _________________ Under New Management
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.
More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.
Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?
Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.
We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.
Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.
When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.
That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.
Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.
In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.
I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.
Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.
19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.
Ayton at Arizona:
Wiseman at Memphis:
I'm not seeing a gap. As many issues as I had with Ayton coming out of college in 2018, I'd be comfortable taking him with the #1 pick in this draft. He has quicker feet than Wiseman and better offensive recognition and passing touch (going off of full games).
From these and other vids I still have the opinion Wiseman is the more agile fluid athlete with some SF skills. I do like Ayton but at this stage he is similar to the player I thought he would be.
With Ayton I don't see a 25+ scorer with all defensive ability and rim protection. I believe those are possible with Wiseman as he can play a more balanced inside-outside game and his agility allows him to be more impactful on defense and as a shot blocker.
Do you have examples of the SF skills?
I feel like it's 2018 again and KiROE is trying to convince me about how well Mo Bamba moves his feet on the perimeter.
There is no one video but the totality of all the different vids where he flashes SF skills. E.g. dribbling full court and making the correct pass, outside shooting, dribble drives and finishing with spin moves. Yes highlight vids but he appears under control and actually looks good doing it if that matters.
I was not a Mo Bamba fan. Btw have you heard from KIROE?
I just read an otherwise thoughtful draft analysis that called Precious Achiuwa a "freak athlete," and I think we use that phrase too much.
If I remember correctly there was one vid where it appeared his head was near the rim on a dunk. I felt the camera angle distorted it. To me he is the lunch pail high effort player you want on your team.
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