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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23797
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Klone_dd wrote: | Now that was FUN.
It's amazing the playoff intensity of both the Clips and the Mavs games this early in the season. Can't imagine how high that'll ramp up in April and May |
No doubt. As usual, opponents getting up for that Laker game on the schedule. |
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RhodyRay Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 5470 Location: A room with a view!
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Lakers played a pretty bad half, against a quality team, on the road, and still wind up winning the game.
Why? The defense.
In the past 7 years, a Lakers team that played offense the way the Lakers did in that 1st half, are down 20-25 points. Players would not fight on D. Heads would drop, confusion. Whatever it was.
This team fought, even though offense was off, we were missing all our open 3's at half, many shots in isolation for AD were not going in. Dwight was being handled by Marjanovic really well. Dwight was not able to make an impact in the first, but the second half and OT Dwight was huge again.
That is a sign of a legit contender. A team whose offense is not on, but they stay in the game, through D. Then they go on a run offensively and get back into it later in the game.
COACHING Battle
I thought Carlisle made a few key mistakes in this one.
1) Marjonovic was giving Dwight a lot trouble and negating his impact. They did not go to him in the 2nd. Dwight was then able to impact the game, and as the game went on Dwight just gained confidence and impact.
2) Porzingis. When Porzingis was on early on, Carlisle sent him to the bench for a long time. Then when KP got back in, he did not ever get in rhythm, and the offense was all Luka, 90% of the time. We did a great job of not leaving KP open on Luka penetration. A lot of teams are doing that, we took away KP's open 3 pointers. On the flip, Lakers kept going to AD. AD was off, and we forced a way to get him into game offensively. Dallas did the opposite. KP was hot at first, they benched him and never really set him up well again. This is coaching IMO. Great plan from game 1 of the season by Vogel to identify that he is building a 2 superstar team, inside-out basketball.
3) Trusting Dwight in crunch time. A lot of coaches would not go with a Center that can not shoot FTs or make shots from outside. Look at Dallas. They never went back to Marjanovic, because of the offense. They preferred their stretch bigs. Yet the way Dwight was able to play off AD and Lebron, and do the little things was key. I thought it was very telling that Frank showed confidence in McGee in the 2nd half again (and McGee played much better in the 2nd half stint than the 1st).
I was saying right after the season opener. A good coach who wants to win a ring sticks to a longterm plan, ahead of winning small battles. Frank is doing this with regards to his lineups, and also his planning game to game. |
Wolf,
Good points. The Lakers were also outrebounded by 20 I believe, yet they still won this game on the road in OT. That says a lot about the potential of this team. Like AD said, some wins are ugly but you have to find a way to win and the Lakers did just that last night. Hopefully the Lakers will continue to get better and better as the season progresses. _________________ Let them HATE so long as they FEAR! |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB. Fun game to watch, love that they pulled it out in OT. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144492 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: |
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That game shows how hard it is to break old paradigms. If you are up by 3 and Lebron has the ball near the lane wrap him up and foul him. According to Stu they even had a foul to give. But players are too conditioned to avoid fouling at the end of games. That is on the coaching staff. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17124
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | That game shows how hard it is to break old paradigms. If you are up by 3 and Lebron has the ball near the lane wrap him up and foul him. According to Stu they even had a foul to give. But players are too conditioned to avoid fouling at the end of games. That is on the coaching staff. |
Worse was the guy leaving the corner to help on LeBron in the paint with a 3 point lead and under 3 seconds left in the game. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Texas_Pete Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12825 Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB. Kobe tried to get Dwight to embrace a Ben Wallace type role back in the day. He balked. Now he's mature enough to see that he doesn't have to have "20/10" to impact the game.
We were down by as much as 15 and surprisingly I was calm. This team makes great 2nd half adjustments. Credit Vogel and his veteran coaches. Very nice comeback win. |
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Sssmush Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Oct 2017 Posts: 133
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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in the first half I thought their offense was really weak. Some decent individual play, but the offensive timing seemed really clunky and we were getting totally out rebounded. Like we constantly seemed to be taking shots at the wrong time and out of sync.
that being said, in games like this it is apparent to me that Lebron is already a Laker great. His dominant awesome play on all three levels, if you think about it, is extremely impressive.
Comparing to Kobe for instance, Kobe could have brilliant offensive games, but not with the kind of power that Lebron shows off, or the kind of facilitating and floor generalship. Magic had great floor generalship and passing, but based on what I've seen, nothing like the explosive high flying elevation that Lebron has... to say nothing of Lebron's shooting which is on a completely other level, or his defense.
Lebron is clearly a vastly more COMPLETE player than either Kobe or Magic, and let's face it during the Kobe Pau era Laker fans could only dream of a player like Lebron doing what we saw last night in key moments.
the only real Laker compare I can see is Shaquille O'Neal. This is the whole package, the real thing, singular awesomeness on display. I remember feeling that way seeing Shaq play, like you are watching history in real time. But yeah the coast to coast sky jam off the defensive play in a 39 point game with 16 assists etc etc this is next level |
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KungFuChicken90 Rookie
Joined: 29 Oct 2019 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | That game shows how hard it is to break old paradigms. If you are up by 3 and Lebron has the ball near the lane wrap him up and foul him. According to Stu they even had a foul to give. But players are too conditioned to avoid fouling at the end of games. That is on the coaching staff. |
Worse was the guy leaving the corner to help on LeBron in the paint with a 3 point lead and under 3 seconds left in the game. |
Yup. Maxi Klieber, you the real MVP!
Starting unit is still struggling out the gate.. Seems like McGee might be the weak link there.
Other than that, great win! I'm so glad we're able to tough things out with strong, consistent defense and win with our superstars! |
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Laker7 Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 6409 Location: Past left field
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Season to date plus minus
Player Plus Minus
Dwight Howard 65
Anthony Davis 44
LeBron James 43
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 42
Danny Green 31
Quinn Cook 29
Alex Caruso 26
Avery Bradley 13
Kostas Antetokounmpo 2
Troy Daniels 1
Jared Dudley -2
Zach Norvell -4
JaVale McGee -4
Kyle Kuzma -6
Link _________________ Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58388
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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There's a few suggestions that the Lakers take too many midrange shots.
I question whether these are actually bad shots. If the entire league is defending the 3 and the paint for drives, then what is the area of the court they are least likely to defend well - the mid-range.
We are not talking contested 2s. We are talking open shots.
The 3 ball and in the paint only mentality should stay in Houston and one dimensional offenses. Yes it's great offense and it works to put up huge numbers.
But if your team has an Anthony Davis, Lebron, and you have players that are good at making a mid-range shot (open mid-range, not contested) then I am fine with taking them. So far I have seen an offense that has not been that great at 3 point shots conversion, even though they open up a lot of open shots for their spot shooters. The conversion isn't there. So then asking those same players to now make and take more - that isn't very smart.
I would hope that we see less Anthony Davis fading away and soft play, and more physical low post play, when he is isolating, or getting shots in the paint, on the move. Aside from that, I don't mind if Avery Bradley mixes it up with some 3s and some fake the 3, take a few dribbles and take the open 2. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58388
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Good points. The Lakers were also outrebounded by 20 I believe, yet they still won this game on the road in OT. That says a lot about the potential of this team. Like AD said, some wins are ugly but you have to find a way to win and the Lakers did just that last night. Hopefully the Lakers will continue to get better and better as the season progresses. |
The rebounding was a major issue in this game, but it had a lot to do with Lakers needing to keep bodies on their bigs like Porzingis, Kleber and Powell all capable to shoot 3s. Plus Dallas just had more hustle than us, early on. Second half we really stepped it up.
These slow starts have become a bit of a pattern. McGee has to play with the energy and desire he played in the 3rd Q. He is a key part of that starting 5 not starting well. McGee has to set better screens, and be more active in communicating on D. He is not the talent Dwight is, but he can certainly be more effective than he has been. We seem to try and get him going on offense and this only plays into the opposing team's hands. If Dwight Howard, a HOF player who has led a team to the NBA Finals, does not need touches, certainly McGee does not either. However for some reason, we seem to want to find McGee on offense and make a few plays just to get this done. I wouldn't waste time on that. I would instead try to get McGee to do more of what Dwight is. Set a screen, a good screen, and move out of the way, unless you see a direct path to the basket. Defensively move your feet and take pride in your ability to help your teammates. |
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