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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:46 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
You really think he deserves a max contract? I’d try and extend him at 12-15 this summer while health concerns loom and at worst he becomes a quality trade piece on reasonable contract. I wouldn’t pay him 20 for more than one year and if his agent doesn’t even think that’s reasonable, we need to look into moving him at the deadline. |
if he is healthy, he very likely gets paid in 2020....it is an absolute terrible free agent class. $12-$15 Million? Are you serious? What are you offering Lonzo and Kuzma, BOGO coupons at Subway? |
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LuciusAllen Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 5787
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
You really think he deserves a max contract? I’d try and extend him at 12-15 this summer while health concerns loom and at worst he becomes a quality trade piece on reasonable contract. I wouldn’t pay him 20 for more than one year and if his agent doesn’t even think that’s reasonable, we need to look into moving him at the deadline. |
I think it's important to try to extend BI this summer - and I actually agree that we should aim to start him at around $15 mil per - because then it creates a movable mid-range contract. Then you need to move fewer pieces for a deadline deal for AD. And if BI blows up, and the Lakers don't move him, then we have him on a team-friendly deal for a while. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
It basically comes down to BI or Lonzo in this scenario, and I think you're right that Ingram and his agent will take the gamble on restricted free agency in the face of a lowball offer.. And that means Lonzo would have to blow up before the 2020 trade deadline when the Lakers could still get assets in return for Ingram.
Timing's in BI's favor on this one, so I suspect Lonzo is either shipped out with him for AD/another All-Star or Lonzo is shipped out separately to make room for AD in 2020. The only way he survives as a Laker beyond summer 2020 is if Kawhi signs up and AD is traded somewhere else. |
I personally think it will be organizational suicide if we punt another year in hopes of signing AD. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
This is why it so key to treat your players like family and long term assets rather than chess pawns.
LaVar/Lonzo are halfway out the door.
BI's father wasn't happy.
Had we always treated them with respect... we could ask them to take a lower salary without them laughing in our face.
And with Rob at the helm... I'm not sure how this mutual respect issue gets any better. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
It basically comes down to BI or Lonzo in this scenario, and I think you're right that Ingram and his agent will take the gamble on restricted free agency in the face of a lowball offer.. And that means Lonzo would have to blow up before the 2020 trade deadline when the Lakers could still get assets in return for Ingram.
Timing's in BI's favor on this one, so I suspect Lonzo is either shipped out with him for AD/another All-Star or Lonzo is shipped out separately to make room for AD in 2020. The only way he survives as a Laker beyond summer 2020 is if Kawhi signs up and AD is traded somewhere else. |
I personally think it will be organizational suicide if we punt another year in hopes of signing AD. |
I'm looking around at Pelinka interviewing coaching candidates with no POBO in place and Linda Rambis in Jeanie's ear and I'm pretty convinced the Lakers are already bleeding out in the bathtub. _________________ Under New Management |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
You really think he deserves a max contract? I’d try and extend him at 12-15 this summer while health concerns loom and at worst he becomes a quality trade piece on reasonable contract. I wouldn’t pay him 20 for more than one year and if his agent doesn’t even think that’s reasonable, we need to look into moving him at the deadline. |
if he is healthy, he very likely gets paid in 2020....it is an absolute terrible free agent class. $12-$15 Million? Are you serious? What are you offering Lonzo and Kuzma, BOGO coupons at Subway? |
Yes I’m serious. I’m not going to turn this into a BI debate but I need to see more of a correlation between his individual and team success before I even think about offering 20 for multiple years. Zo and Kuz are under contract for two more years and we have more time to judge. As of now, I consider Zo a much better prospect and Kuz slightly worse. If Kuz shoots 35%> from 3 next year on similar volume, I’d offer him around 15. If Zo plays 70+ games and shoots 35%> from 3 I’d offer him that 4 year 80 mil deal. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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LuciusAllen wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
You really think he deserves a max contract? I’d try and extend him at 12-15 this summer while health concerns loom and at worst he becomes a quality trade piece on reasonable contract. I wouldn’t pay him 20 for more than one year and if his agent doesn’t even think that’s reasonable, we need to look into moving him at the deadline. |
I think it's important to try to extend BI this summer - and I actually agree that we should aim to start him at around $15 mil per - because then it creates a movable mid-range contract. Then you need to move fewer pieces for a deadline deal for AD. And if BI blows up, and the Lakers don't move him, then we have him on a team-friendly deal for a while. |
Yep. Giving him over 15 this summer would be a mistake IMO. His questionable health and ability to adapt to playing with others scares me. |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17109
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Trade BI or Lonzo - it is difficult to get value for injured players, but from a cap structure standpoint, keeping both does't work.
When OKC faced a similar decision, they made the right choice in terms of making a trade. Where they screwed up was in trading Harden instead of Ibaka. Ibaka fit a need, but even then, Harden had a MUCH higher upside.
In terms of BI v Zo, even with a fugly shot, I'm convinced that Lonzo impacts games more. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
It basically comes down to BI or Lonzo in this scenario, and I think you're right that Ingram and his agent will take the gamble on restricted free agency in the face of a lowball offer.. And that means Lonzo would have to blow up before the 2020 trade deadline when the Lakers could still get assets in return for Ingram.
Timing's in BI's favor on this one, so I suspect Lonzo is either shipped out with him for AD/another All-Star or Lonzo is shipped out separately to make room for AD in 2020. The only way he survives as a Laker beyond summer 2020 is if Kawhi signs up and AD is traded somewhere else. |
I personally think it will be organizational suicide if we punt another year in hopes of signing AD. |
I'm looking around at Pelinka interviewing coaching candidates with no POBO in place and Linda Rambis in Jeanie's ear and I'm pretty convinced the Lakers are already bleeding out in the bathtub. |
My thoughts exactly. Lakers franchise had a steamy wild drug fueled one night stand with Lebron/Klutch and have woken up in the bathtub missing vital organs bleeding out. |
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scooterp10 Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016 Posts: 961
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Trade BI or Lonzo - it is difficult to get value for injured players, but from a cap structure standpoint, keeping both does't work.
When OKC faced a similar decision, they made the right choice in terms of making a trade. Where they screwed up was in trading Harden instead of Ibaka. Ibaka fit a need, but even then, Harden had a MUCH higher upside.
In terms of BI v Zo, even with a fugly shot, I'm convinced that Lonzo impacts games more. |
We already screwed up when we traded Dlo. Might be considered the Harden trade 2.0 down the road. Just terrible |
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Staccatos Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 2416
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ^^^honestly though....if I am BI's agent and I think there is a solid chance he is healthy....I laugh at that offer. |
BI's agent is Jeff Schwartz who is also Kemba Walker's agent. Maybe a double deal can be put together? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: |
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BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Yes, please take a Steph Curry deal.
But hoping he's healthy foremost. Blood clots are no joke. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
My thoughts exactly except it’ll likely have to be more than 11 per just because guys are getting paid more now |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
My thoughts exactly except it’ll likely have to be more than 11 per just because guys are getting paid more now |
Right. I was just using Steph's deal as an example.
But it would have to be a # that would allow the Lakers to sign AD in 2020 if they punt. And that might be too low for BI, but maybe he wants the security given his blood clot situation. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
Steph Curry signed his deal (4 years/$44 Million) before the 2013-14 season. The salary cap in 2013-14 was $58,679,000. In 2020, the salary cap is projected to be $120 Million. A deal like Steph Curry's in 2020 would be approximately 4 years/$90 Million. |
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Staccatos Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 2416
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
My thoughts exactly except it’ll likely have to be more than 11 per just because guys are getting paid more now |
Right. I was just using Steph's deal as an example.
But it would have to be a # that would allow the Lakers to sign AD in 2020 if they punt. And that might be too low for BI, but maybe he wants the security given his blood clot situation. |
It's not my money but I'd offer BI something in the range of 5 yrs 90-100M. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
Steph Curry signed his deal (4 years/$44 Million) before the 2013-14 season. The salary cap in 2013-14 was $58,679,000. In 2020, the salary cap is projected to be $120 Million. A deal like Steph Curry's in 2020 would be approximately 4 years/$90 Million. |
Hmm, interesting. Then yeah, maybe not the best example (b/c I also don't see BI becoming a top player like Steph either).
But the point is getting a deal where he may get less per year, but has security (while not hamstringing the Lakers too much). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Trade BI or Lonzo - it is difficult to get value for injured players, but from a cap structure standpoint, keeping both does't work.
When OKC faced a similar decision, they made the right choice in terms of making a trade. Where they screwed up was in trading Harden instead of Ibaka. Ibaka fit a need, but even then, Harden had a MUCH higher upside.
In terms of BI v Zo, even with a fugly shot, I'm convinced that Lonzo impacts games more. |
nah not the same. OKC wasnt trying to make room to sign another star, they were just being cheap and didnt feel like paying Harden his worth. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: |
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scooterp10 wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Trade BI or Lonzo - it is difficult to get value for injured players, but from a cap structure standpoint, keeping both does't work.
When OKC faced a similar decision, they made the right choice in terms of making a trade. Where they screwed up was in trading Harden instead of Ibaka. Ibaka fit a need, but even then, Harden had a MUCH higher upside.
In terms of BI v Zo, even with a fugly shot, I'm convinced that Lonzo impacts games more. |
We already screwed up when we traded Dlo. Might be considered the Harden trade 2.0 down the road. Just terrible |
Harden was 26-5-6 in his RFA year as a Rocket. He is someone most people were glad to throw a max at. I would rather let DLo walk than match a max offer for him. He's not a two way player and he is still inefficient and can't get to the rack. His raw numbers look decent because his usage rate is very high. I wouldn't want to max a fringe top 30-35 player. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I think the main thing is to be aggressively proactive now... tell him you want him to be the future of the franchise especially in his current condition.
I'm not saying pay him a crazy amount... but show him and his father respect and start the dialogue.
Going forward in half measures... making him wonder about his future is a guaranteed recipe for failure and Ingram will go the way of PG.
It's probably already too late... but if we want to change the perceived culture as more than an agency run band of mercenaries... that is where we start.
Even if Ingram went the route of Bosh and had to retire... the players would remember how we had his back.
We need some grand gestures if we want to buy back credibility in the league. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:11 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
Steph Curry signed his deal (4 years/$44 Million) before the 2013-14 season. The salary cap in 2013-14 was $58,679,000. In 2020, the salary cap is projected to be $120 Million. A deal like Steph Curry's in 2020 would be approximately 4 years/$90 Million. |
Hmm, interesting. Then yeah, maybe not the best example (b/c I also don't see BI becoming a top player like Steph either).
But the point is getting a deal where he may get less per year, but has security (while not hamstringing the Lakers too much). |
Aaron Gordon signed a deal that some thought was a little less than expected last season @ 4 years for $80 million. I think that is the lowest possible number, but I do not think BI and his agent would accept it. They will know that he is less than a year away from being eligible for a near $30 Million max in a terrible FA supply market....which also comes in a year where a lot of bad 2016 deals finally come off the books. I am sure the Nets wished they could have locked up Russell last summer on a less than max deal. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29381 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Trade BI or Lonzo - it is difficult to get value for injured players, but from a cap structure standpoint, keeping both does't work.
When OKC faced a similar decision, they made the right choice in terms of making a trade. Where they screwed up was in trading Harden instead of Ibaka. Ibaka fit a need, but even then, Harden had a MUCH higher upside.
In terms of BI v Zo, even with a fugly shot, I'm convinced that Lonzo impacts games more. |
It's situational. Can't say ALWAYS trade X player in Y situation. Have to make sure we're getting back something better than we're letting go.
Look no further than our past few years. If PG13 is on our roster right now. Nobody is complaining about young players sacrificed to get there.
If we sign Durant or Kawhi this offseason, keep an eye out for the whiplash from the part of lakerland reveling in this current misery.
Sure IF we're sure we can get 1 or 2 all stars if we open up cap space. I'm down. But we have to be sure. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:19 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BI's blood clot really makes it tough.
Either he takes a Steph Curry level deal (when he was at 4 years/44m which was probably one of the most historically undervalued deals ever for a superstar) or he takes a risk in RFA in 2020.
BI isn't getting a FMV extension now as it would be risky for the Lakers and would eat into any possible 2020 AD cap space if they punt. |
Steph Curry signed his deal (4 years/$44 Million) before the 2013-14 season. The salary cap in 2013-14 was $58,679,000. In 2020, the salary cap is projected to be $120 Million. A deal like Steph Curry's in 2020 would be approximately 4 years/$90 Million. |
Hmm, interesting. Then yeah, maybe not the best example (b/c I also don't see BI becoming a top player like Steph either).
But the point is getting a deal where he may get less per year, but has security (while not hamstringing the Lakers too much). |
Aaron Gordon signed a deal that some thought was a little less than expected last season @ 4 years for $80 million. I think that is the lowest possible number, but I do not think BI and his agent would accept it. They will know that he is less than a year away from being eligible for a near $30 Million max in a terrible FA supply market....which also comes in a year where a lot of bad 2016 deals finally come off the books. I am sure the Nets wished they could have locked up Russell last summer on a less than max deal. |
Right. OR, the condition takes a turn for the worse and all of a sudden he walked away from guaranteed money.
It will likely have to be a compromise. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Please keep Lonzo and BI throughout Lebron's tenure for a few reasons:
First of all, they're quality role players if they can be healthy. We've been counting on 1st and 2nd year players to run the show and win games in a brutal Western Conference. They gained experience from that and now in their 3rd and 4th year players, counting on them to be the 3rd/4th best players is gonna be valuable.
They're both two way players, Lonzo is much better on the defensive side but Brandon also brings a certain level of versatility. Having guys like that next to Lebron + a second all star would be crucial going forward.
And lastly, Lebron is THIRTY FIVE. Why don't people understand that, we have a (bleep) FO and barely attract stars as is. Imagine if we have to go through ANOTHER rebuild after a few years. We have two lottery level talents who have shown they can impact the game. Having those guys at age 24 after Lebron puts us in an immensely better position.
Also, their trade value is at the lowest so why lose them now? _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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