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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Theseus wrote: | It is my understanding that the actions did constitute Obstruction of Justice, but they couldn't prove criminal intent. Or at least in the estimation of AG Barr. Who was handpicked by Trump.
I seem to recall Hillary getting a lot of flak from Republicans after the FBI investigation concluded they couldn't prove criminal intent either. Funny how in one case there is "total exoneration" and the other is the person is guilty as sin.
I think the important distinction here is that the person deciding not to indict was hand-picked by the person they'd be indicting. Imagine how upset republicans would be if the person who decided not to indict Hillary was hand-picked by her. |
republican hypocrisy I've been fighting for 40 years now |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12638
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Theseus wrote: | It is my understanding that the actions did constitute Obstruction of Justice, but they couldn't prove criminal intent. Or at least in the estimation of AG Barr. Who was handpicked by Trump.
I seem to recall Hillary getting a lot of flak from Republicans after the FBI investigation concluded they couldn't prove criminal intent either. Funny how in one case there is "total exoneration" and the other is the person is guilty as sin.
I think the important distinction here is that the person deciding not to indict was hand-picked by the person they'd be indicting. Imagine how upset republicans would be if the person who decided not to indict Hillary was hand-picked by her. |
I'm not sure what was Barr's reasoning here, but this is a critique of what he said in his original (audition?) memo on obstruction:
Quote: | Barr assumes for the purpose of his memo that Mueller is only interested in presidential conduct sanctioned by Article II, specifically that his investigation revolves around Trump’s actions toward Comey. “As I understand the theory,” he writes, Mueller’s team has built their case on a novel and, in his view, unsupported interpretation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(2), the “residual clause” of § 1512, which prohibits witness tampering. § 1512(c)(2) holds that, “Whoever corruptly … otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so [is guilty of the crime of obstruction”—and Barr is concerned that Mueller is interpreting it to sanction an overly broad range of behavior.
Moreover, Barr takes the view that a facially lawful action taken by the president under his Article II authority cannot constitute obstruction as a matter of constitutional law. He expresses concern that allowing this interpretation to proceed could have “disastrous implications” for the executive branch and the presidency, potentially opening the door to criminal investigations of “all exercises of prosecutorial discretion.” He also writes, “if a [Justice Department] investigation is going to take down a democratically-elected president it is imperative… that any claim of wrongdoing is solidly based on a real crime—not a debatable one.” (All emphases in original). |
https://www.lawfareblog.com/bill-barrs-very-strange-memo-obstruction-justice _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Trump told us why he obstructed justice.. fired Comey
come on..
How stupid does Mueller think we are? |
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realking24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 2203
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Trump told us why he obstructed justice.. fired Comey
come on..
How stupid does Mueller think we are? |
He was your hero a week ago you can’t make this up😂. They were trying to make a law to protect him. Smart move by Trump to fire Sessions when he did because this investigation would still be continuing. |
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realking24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 2203
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realking24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 2203
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | Theseus wrote: | It is my understanding that the actions did constitute Obstruction of Justice, but they couldn't prove criminal intent. Or at least in the estimation of AG Barr. Who was handpicked by Trump.
I seem to recall Hillary getting a lot of flak from Republicans after the FBI investigation concluded they couldn't prove criminal intent either. Funny how in one case there is "total exoneration" and the other is the person is guilty as sin.
I think the important distinction here is that the person deciding not to indict was hand-picked by the person they'd be indicting. Imagine how upset republicans would be if the person who decided not to indict Hillary was hand-picked by her. |
republican hypocrisy I've been fighting for 40 years now |
I totally agree there’s Hypocrisy on the Republicans party |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12638
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a real scary, thought:
Trump's next SCOTUS appointment?
How about a nice big reward for good ol' Bill Barr? _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12638
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hey ol' hit and run (up two) . . . did you misspell in? _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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realking24 wrote: | https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-trump-accusers-need-to-apologize-after-mueller-report-finds-no-russia-collusion | I'll apologize, when trump admits he scammed all those trump voting people that went to trump university before he became president.
I'll apologize when trump puts out his taxes.
I'll apologize when trumps stops snuggling up with dictators.
I'll apologize after trump admits he paid those ladies off with campaign money.
I'll apologize after trump apologizes for lying about this last tax bill he passed where he lied and said it would help the non elites.(it hasnt.)
I'll apologize, when trump stops being a racist.l
i'll apologize when my president stops using fox news anchors as cabinet staffers and stops using their narratives to run our country.
................... |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | Here's a real scary, thought:
Trump's next SCOTUS appointment?
How about a nice big reward for good ol' Bill Barr? |
No, Barr's too old for that. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13732
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like the media isn't just repeating the GOP's narrative, hitting back on the "complete and total exoneration" lie.
McConnell also blocked a non-binding resolution to release the report.
I'm glad Pelosi is the leader. I'm guessing she knew a couple weeks ago and strategically ruled out impeachment. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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realking24 wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Trump told us why he obstructed justice.. fired Comey
come on..
How stupid does Mueller think we are? |
He was your hero a week ago you can’t make this up😂. They were trying to make a law to protect him. Smart move by Trump to fire Sessions when he did because this investigation would still be continuing. |
Why was the word Deplorable used
Because you people cheer criminal actions
Cheer deplorable behavior
Cheer liars and people who do not respect or have humility
STOP coming here if YOU won't answer questions posed to you
where is the 900 billion dollars gonna come from eh?
Why is it ok for Republicans to steal money and point at others.. huh?
You are following a train headed for the bowling green massacre |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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https://twitter.com/JuliaEAinsley/status/1110247801152262152
Quote: |
Julia Edwards Ainsley. National Security - Justice reporter for @nbcnews covering DOJ/ DHS. Formerly @reuters
Julia E. Ainsley
Verified account @JuliaEAinsley
Breaking: @KenDilanianNBC reports that the FBI is
prepared to brief the Gang of 8 on the findings of Mueller's
counterintelligence investigation into Trump (i.e. whether the president is under the influence of a foreign power)
11:31 AM - 25 Mar 2019 |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12638
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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ContagiousInspiration wrote: | https://twitter.com/JuliaEAinsley/status/1110247801152262152
Quote: |
Julia Edwards Ainsley. National Security - Justice reporter for @nbcnews covering DOJ/ DHS. Formerly @reuters
Julia E. Ainsley
Verified account @JuliaEAinsley
Breaking: @KenDilanianNBC reports that the FBI is
prepared to brief the Gang of 8 on the findings of Mueller's
counterintelligence investigation into Trump (i.e. whether the president is under the influence of a foreign power)
11:31 AM - 25 Mar 2019 |
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Personally, I can't take another disappointment right now (I know that so tickles conservatives) so (though it's not much of a leap) I'm gonna just assume that nothing will come of this. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52663 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | https://twitter.com/JuliaEAinsley/status/1110247801152262152
Quote: |
Julia Edwards Ainsley. National Security - Justice reporter for @nbcnews covering DOJ/ DHS. Formerly @reuters
Julia E. Ainsley
Verified account @JuliaEAinsley
Breaking: @KenDilanianNBC reports that the FBI is
prepared to brief the Gang of 8 on the findings of Mueller's
counterintelligence investigation into Trump (i.e. whether the president is under the influence of a foreign power)
11:31 AM - 25 Mar 2019 |
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Personally, I can't take another disappointment right now (I know that so tickles conservatives) so (though it's not much of a leap) I'm gonna just assume that nothing will come of this. |
Best approach at this point I think. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Totally agree not to have any expectations
Just keep building up Democrats to help heal the nation 2020
>>>>>>>>>>right on que
Lindsey Graham Wants a New Special Counsel, This Time to Investigate Comey and the FBI
Not the Onion...
Quote: | Graham doesn’t want to look into this all by himself. He wants Attorney General Bill Barr to appoint a second special counsel.
“I’d like to find somebody like a Mr. Mueller,” he said, “that can look into what happened with the FISA warrant, what happened with the counterintelligence investigation.” |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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My one political comment for the week is that Glen Greenwald is a grifter. He's of the same genus as Seth Abramson and Tucker Carlson. _________________ Under New Management |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Trump and the GOP have a golden opportunity here to be the ones to hit the reset button, “be” the bigger person, and say something along the lines of now that we have put this to rest, let’s stop working against each other and focus instead on working for the American people.
That’s what most Americans want to hear I think, and, would make any further attempts by the other side reflect more poorly on them. Few people appreciate punching down.
But will they take advantage of the opportunity? Doesn’t seem so. Further down the spiral we go. *sigh* |
Trump and the GOP can’t be the ‘bigger person’ when they’ve been the ones causing the hatred. Not enough even if he apologized with words, has to actually perform actions |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Trump and the GOP have a golden opportunity here to be the ones to hit the reset button, “be” the bigger person, and say something along the lines of now that we have put this to rest, let’s stop working against each other and focus instead on working for the American people.
That’s what most Americans want to hear I think, and, would make any further attempts by the other side reflect more poorly on them. Few people appreciate punching down.
But will they take advantage of the opportunity? Doesn’t seem so. Further down the spiral we go. *sigh* |
Trump and the GOP can’t be the ‘bigger person’ when they’ve been the ones causing the hatred. Not enough even if he apologized with words, has to actually perform actions |
Won’t get into that circular debate of who started the hate cycle, and never expected the GOP or Trump to do any of what I think they should do.
Was merely saying that strategically, that would be the right move here IMO, and is usually the right move on situations like this on either side. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29382 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ring, of course Republicans won't use the "golden opportunity". You can't be Donald Trump (or support Donald Trump) AND have integrity.
Those 2 things are diametrically opposed.
Either you've shedded the notion of right and wrong and greater good, and you are a Trump supporter.
Or you care about the future of our country and believe maintaining our democracy is more important than anything else, and you've already seen Trump for what he is. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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The Lebrons Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 4778
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Trump and his campaign didn't formally conspire with Russia, Russia just offered and provided help and Trump just asked for and accepted their help. It was informal collusion. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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The Lebrons wrote: | Trump and his campaign didn't formally conspire with Russia, Russia just offered and provided help and Trump just asked for and accepted their help. It was informal collusion. |
Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-putin-no-relationship-226282
The campaign later attempted to clarify Trump's remarks, saying he wanted Russia to hand over the emails if they had them.
By MICHAEL CROWLEY and TYLER PAGER
07/27/2016 01:59 PM EDT
Updated 07/27/2016 05:17 PM EDT
Quote: | “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” the Republican nominee said at a news conference in Florida. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Trump’s comments set off an immediate uproar from the Clinton campaign, which blasted the remarks as a threat to national security.
“This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent,” Hillary for America policy adviser Jake Sullivan said in a statement. "That’s not hyperbole, those are just the facts. This has gone from being a matter of curiosity, and a matter of politics, to being a national security issue."
“I find those kinds of statements to be totally outrageous because you’ve got now a presidential candidate who is, in fact, asking the Russians to engage in American politics,” said former CIA Director Leon Panetta, a Clinton surrogate. “I just think that’s beyond the pale.” |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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If it wasn't for a million dead Iraqi's, I'd say this whole swindle ranks right up there with Saddam's imaginary WMD's. Hopefully this wakes people up to the theatrics that are the 2 party system and MSM, but judging by recent history I can't say I'm hopeful. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: |
Won’t get into that circular debate of who started the hate cycle, and never expected the GOP or Trump to do any of what I think they should do.
Was merely saying that strategically, that would be the right move here IMO, and is usually the right move on situations like this on either side. |
U serious? It started with the election of Obama |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | ringfinger wrote: |
Won’t get into that circular debate of who started the hate cycle, and never expected the GOP or Trump to do any of what I think they should do.
Was merely saying that strategically, that would be the right move here IMO, and is usually the right move on situations like this on either side. |
U serious? It started with the election of Obama |
Catering to and engorging Race Haters
Working together to pass bills to help Americans.. McConnell/Obama
Feeding people Islamic Hatred
Feeding their voters Christian Billionaires above everyone else
DEMONIZING the whole Clinton family.. Chelsea included
Catering to Right Wing terrorists
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/12/02/trump_to_alex_jones_people_like_you_and_i_cant_apologize.html
who tortured Sandy Hook Parents..
*One just committed suicide... lost his beautiful daughter.. had to listen to right wing nuts saying it was fake etc..
Fought to help fund brain violence research.. couldn't go on without his child
Sandy Hook father who died by suicide was ‘a beautiful human being’
Demonizing all social services while engorging the already wealthy
electing Trump was a 9/11 attack on the fabric of our democracy and our freedom. |
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