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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
If you're going to that kind of massage parlor, I think it's safe to say that the women there may not feel like they have any other choice but to perform sex work, thereby making it non-consensual. |
Then they should be free to choose not to work there or perform those acts.
I think women should have the right to decide what they do with their bodies. |
Women should.
These women may have been denied that right. |
That is a separate issue. Kraft wasn't arrested for sexual assault, he was arrested for solicitation, which, IMO, is an archaic law because it prohibits a woman from making the decision for herself. |
You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Well, we don't know that. We only know Kraft was arrested for solicitation (offering money in exchange for sex), not sexual assault.
So it doesn't sound like he forced them to do anything. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
If you're going to that kind of massage parlor, I think it's safe to say that the women there may not feel like they have any other choice but to perform sex work, thereby making it non-consensual. |
Then they should be free to choose not to work there or perform those acts.
I think women should have the right to decide what they do with their bodies. |
Women should.
These women may have been denied that right. |
That is a separate issue. Kraft wasn't arrested for sexual assault, he was arrested for solicitation, which, IMO, is an archaic law because it prohibits a woman from making the decision for herself. |
You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Well, we don't know that. We only know Kraft was arrested for solicitation (offering money in exchange for sex), not sexual assault.
So it doesn't sound like he forced them to do anything. |
Quote: | According to Perry Russom of NBC10 in Boston, the sheriff in Martin County, Fla. told him there were no days off within the Orchids of Asia Day Spa's prostitution ring, and that hygiene was "minimal" at best. The women involved are understood to have been held there and put to work against their will |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
If you're going to that kind of massage parlor, I think it's safe to say that the women there may not feel like they have any other choice but to perform sex work, thereby making it non-consensual. |
Then they should be free to choose not to work there or perform those acts.
I think women should have the right to decide what they do with their bodies. |
Women should.
These women may have been denied that right. |
That is a separate issue. Kraft wasn't arrested for sexual assault, he was arrested for solicitation, which, IMO, is an archaic law because it prohibits a woman from making the decision for herself. |
You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Well, we don't know that. We only know Kraft was arrested for solicitation (offering money in exchange for sex), not sexual assault.
So it doesn't sound like he forced them to do anything. |
Quote: | According to Perry Russom of NBC10 in Boston, the sheriff in Martin County, Fla. told him there were no days off within the Orchids of Asia Day Spa's prostitution ring, and that hygiene was "minimal" at best. The women involved are understood to have been held there and put to work against their will |
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If Robert Kraft held them there beyond their will, he better be charged with more than solicitation and released.
(I meant he should be charged with way more RATHER than solicitation and subsequently released)
Last edited by ringfinger on Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
If you're going to that kind of massage parlor, I think it's safe to say that the women there may not feel like they have any other choice but to perform sex work, thereby making it non-consensual. |
Then they should be free to choose not to work there or perform those acts.
I think women should have the right to decide what they do with their bodies. |
Women should.
These women may have been denied that right. |
That is a separate issue. Kraft wasn't arrested for sexual assault, he was arrested for solicitation, which, IMO, is an archaic law because it prohibits a woman from making the decision for herself. |
You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Well, we don't know that. We only know Kraft was arrested for solicitation (offering money in exchange for sex), not sexual assault.
So it doesn't sound like he forced them to do anything. |
No one is asserting that Robert Kraft forced these women to do anything.
Their 'employer' may have. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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6 happy endings wasn't enough for him i guess. He just wanted one more. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | If Robert Kraft held them there beyond their will, he better be charged with more than solicitation and released. | I haven't heard anyone make that accusation against Robert Kraft. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67839 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | jodeke wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Are you sure these women fall into that category? |
I don't think anyone can say with certainty yet, but we do know that this is the MO for this type of business.
Seems best to just not give money to illegal sex traders who may be involved with kidnapping, human trafficking and enslavement. |
After I questioned I did a little search on the establishment. Nothing conclusive but certainly a possibility.
Orchids of Asia Day Spa: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Here's more on the prostitution ring: TCPalm
From reports it seems that there were madames who would consensually engage with customers, but that the same madams would entrap other women into performing sex acts in order to pay off debts. _________________ Under New Management |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | If Robert Kraft held them there beyond their will, he better be charged with more than solicitation and released. | I haven't heard anyone make that accusation against Robert Kraft. |
Exactly! The accusation against Robert Kraft is for solicitation as I said, which is the charge for offering up money in exchange for sex.
That, IMO, shouldn't be a crime. Nor should it to accept money in exchange for sex. |
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ChefLinda Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 24176 Location: Boston
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67839 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a idea. Open some Bunny Ranches! _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | If Robert Kraft held them there beyond their will, he better be charged with more than solicitation and released. | I haven't heard anyone make that accusation against Robert Kraft. |
Exactly! The accusation against Robert Kraft is for solicitation, as I said, which is, the charge for offering up money in exchange for sex.
That, IMO, shouldn't be a crime. Nor should it to accept money in exchange for sex. |
I agree.
Robert Kraft is accused of solicitation.
Solicitation should not be a crime.
Accepting money for sex should not be a crime.
Kidnapping and enslavement are crimes, and these women may have been the victims of human trafficking for the purpose of enslaving them as sex workers against their will. As such, they cannot and did not give consent.
From Jodeke's link:
Quote: | The 7-month long investigation into the Orchids of Asia Day Spa involved the Palm Beach and Martin County Sheriff’s Offices, as well as the Department of Homeland Security and the IRS. The investigation was focused on human trafficking as well as prostitution. |
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Understand now? |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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just curious....is Kraft supposedly still in a relationship with Ricki Noel Lander? I recall she had a baby last year, and he claimed it was not his.....but was never clear if they were still dating or whatever. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67839 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | just curious....is Kraft supposedly still in a relationship with Ricki Noel Lander? I recall she had a baby last year, and he claimed it was not his.....but was never clear if they were still dating or whatever. |
Don't know if they're still dating. She said he was not the baby's father. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | If Robert Kraft held them there beyond their will, he better be charged with more than solicitation and released. | I haven't heard anyone make that accusation against Robert Kraft. |
Exactly! The accusation against Robert Kraft is for solicitation, as I said, which is, the charge for offering up money in exchange for sex.
That, IMO, shouldn't be a crime. Nor should it to accept money in exchange for sex. |
I agree.
Robert Kraft is accused of solicitation.
Solicitation should not be a crime.
Accepting money for sex should not be a crime.
Kidnapping and enslavement are crimes, and these women may have been the victims of human trafficking for the purpose of enslaving them as sex workers against their will. As such, they cannot and did not give consent.
From Jodeke's link:
Quote: | The 7-month long investigation into the Orchids of Asia Day Spa involved the Palm Beach and Martin County Sheriff’s Offices, as well as the Department of Homeland Security and the IRS. The investigation was focused on human trafficking as well as prostitution. |
JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You suggested that these were consenting adults.
I am questioning whether they gave consent. |
Understand now? |
Yes, but this all started with me saying I dont get why what Robert Kraft did is a crime. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
No, you accused her of being a racist by calling the sex slaves Asian. She showed you they were in fact Asian. Now you're walking it back. |
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loslakersss Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 11853 Location: LA
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | 6 happy endings wasn't enough for him i guess. He just wanted one more. |
He wanted to add a prostitution ring to his collection of rings (saw that comment on reddit). |
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ChefLinda Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 24176 Location: Boston
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
'
You basically called me a racist because I mentioned they were allegedly Asian. I provided you with back up. Thanks for the apology. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
No, you accused her of being a racist by calling the sex slaves Asian. She showed you they were in fact Asian. Now you're walking it back. |
Wrong.
She showed me that many of them were asian, clearly not all. And that some of them were "forced", but not all. We still don't know if the specific woman Kraft engaged with was asian or whether the engagement was consensual since the same article said that some of the madames engage with customers consensually.
Kraft isn't charged with sex trafficking. He was charged with solicitation.
So I'll reiterate my original point which is that I think women should be allowed to engage in sex work and so I don't see why soliciting a sex worker should necessarily be outlawed. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Yes, but this all started with me saying I dont get why what Robert Kraft did is a crime. |
That may be what you meant, but what you said was:
ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
When you said 'consenting adults' it seemed reasonable to infer that the adults in question were Kraft and the woman he paid to have sex with.
He consented.
She may not have consented.
An illustration:
Omar and Chef Linda are human traffickers.
They kidnap Ringfinger, enslave Ringfinger, and transport Ringfinger to a foreign land against Ringfinger's will with no hope of escape.
Omar and Chef Linda are mean and ruthless and super scary, so Ringfinger realizes that the only hope for survival is to do what they say.
Omar and Chef Linda force Ringfinger to work in a massage parlor and trade sexual acts for money.
Robert Kraft visits the establishment and Ringfinger performs a sex act upon Robert Kraft in exchange for an agreed upon price.
Did Ringfinger give consent?
Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChefLinda Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 24176 Location: Boston
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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::puttingringfingerbackonignorewherehebelongs:: |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
'
You basically called me a racist because I mentioned they were allegedly Asian. I provided you with back up. Thanks for the apology. |
I didn't call YOU a racist. I called your statement a racist one. And frankly, it was. Of course I don't think you're a true racist. Unlike my friends on the left, I can draw that distinction.
I simply stated I don't get why what Robert Kraft did was wrong.
You replied with a quip about trafficking asians.
We don't even know if Robert Kraft solicited an asian woman (but let's make the leap that all massage parlor workers must be asian). Women of all kinds work in massage parlors, even ones with asian names. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Yes, but this all started with me saying I dont get why what Robert Kraft did is a crime. |
That may be what you meant, but what you said was:
ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
When you said 'consenting adults' it seemed reasonable to infer that the adults in question were Kraft and the woman he paid to have sex with.
He consented.
She may not have consented.
An illustration:
Omar and Chef Linda are human traffickers.
They kidnap Ringfinger, enslave Ringfinger, and transport Ringfinger to a foreign land against Ringfinger's will with no hope of escape.
Omar and Chef Linda are mean and ruthless and super scary, so Ringfinger realizes that the only hope for survival is to do what they say.
Omar and Chef Linda force Ringfinger to work in a massage parlor and trade sexual acts for money.
Robert Kraft visits the establishment and Ringfinger performs a sex act upon Robert Kraft in exchange for an agreed upon price.
Did Ringfinger give consent? |
Thanks for putting the Robert Kraft gives Ringfinger a sex act image in my head. I can't unsee it now.
Ok, well "this" was in reference to the thread title. I can see why it isn't 100% clear.
But on your analogy -- no, I didn't give consent. Therefore, Omar and Chef Linda should be the ones going to prison but not Ringfinger nor Robert Kraft. |
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loslakersss Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 11853 Location: LA
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | ChefLinda wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Don’t even understand why this is a crime so long as we are talking about consenting adults.
Archaic law imo |
Sex slaves from Asia trafficked to America and forced to perform sex is not two consenting adults. |
Wow, holy racism Batman! Do we know if the women forced to perform acts are even asian? Or are you making that assumption because ya know, the business uses one of them asian names?
Forcing a woman to do ANYTHING is wrong. That is an entirely separate issue.
Paying a woman for a haircut is fine. Forcing a woman to give you a haircut is wrong. How is it then that our logic seeks to just outlaw haircuts?
Making soliciting a prostitution a crime means you're also against prostitution. And if you're against that, then, you're against a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. |
Quote: | Police announced Thursday that human traffickers lured women to 10 Orlando-area massage parlors, where they were intimidated into prostitution, TCPalm reports. The 6-month investigation culminated in charges against dozens of individuals who solicited the parlors, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.
Details: The spas were closed down on Tuesday as Vero Beach Police began making arrests. Indian River County agencies issued warrants for 173 people on charges that include human trafficking, racketeering and soliciting prostitution. Thus far, nearly 50 of the 165 accused of paying for sex acts have been arrested.
Six "major players" have been charged in organizing the prostitution ring, according to TCPalm. Two remain at large.
Detectives witnessed an Orlando couple bring multiple women with suitcases into and out of their spas in Sebastian, Winter Park and Orlando, Florida, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to an arrest warrant. Police said the victims, many of which came from China on temporary work visas, lived in the spas and weren't permitted to leave freely. |
link |
What does any of this have to do with what Robert Kraft did?!!? That's all I said in my original post. |
No, you accused her of being a racist by calling the sex slaves Asian. She showed you they were in fact Asian. Now you're walking it back. |
Wrong.
She showed me that many of them were asian, clearly not all. And that some of them were "forced", but not all. We still don't know if the specific woman Kraft engaged with was asian or whether the engagement was consensual since the same article said that some of the madames engage with customers consensually.
Kraft isn't charged with sex trafficking. He was charged with solicitation.
So I'll reiterate my original point which is that I think women should be allowed to engage in sex work and so I don't see why soliciting a sex worker should necessarily be outlawed. |
That doesn't apply to this as the parlor was being investigated for women being forced into sexual servitude.
And I'm not sure if it is legal or not in Florida/that county but if it's not then he shouldn't get a pass because the law he broke "shouldn't be a law" or he didn't know about the law. He still solicited sexual acts from an establishment that allegedly was forcing women to do those acts, even if they acted like they were consenting. |
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