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Who do you want to win? |
YOUR TRIBE |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
INDIFFERENT |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
OTHER (explain) |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 15 |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:21 pm Post subject: Curiosity |
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You see two people fighting on a corner. One of your ethnicity the other of another. You know nothing about the combatants or the reason for the altercation. In your heart of hearts, which person would you pull for to be the victor?
I think I've asked this poll before. If so with the current administrations, IMO, obvious racist attitude, I ask again.
Your answers are incognito, be honest. Other (explain) is important. I urge it's use. I think the poll will give some indication of where the country stands.
GO _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I voted Indifferent, but in all honesty, there would probably be other indicators that would make me pull for one or the other. It would never be as simple and clear cut as ethnicity. In a hypothetical case in which all else was equal (size, aggressiveness, appearance), I don't know that ethnicity would make a difference. People who are fighting on a street corner are dangerous regardless of ethnicity. Having said that, implicit bias could very well cause me to interpret the indicators differently from you or a member of a different ethnic group. Or maybe not.
But then, I avoid places where people fight on street corners. In the places where I go, I'd probably be looking around for a cop. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I voted Indifferent, but in all honesty, there would probably be other indicators that would make me pull for one or the other. It would never be as simple and clear cut as ethnicity. In a hypothetical case in which all else was equal (size, aggressiveness, appearance), I don't know that ethnicity would make a difference. People who are fighting on a street corner are dangerous regardless of ethnicity. Having said that, implicit bias could very well cause me to interpret the indicators differently from you or a member of a different ethnic group. Or maybe not.
But then, I avoid places where people fight on street corners. In the places where I go, I'd probably be looking around for a cop. |
The bold is what I'm trying to determine. I ask geared in that direction. Other (explain) will voice some clarity. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I picked other because I would hope they stop fighting and there is no victor. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | The bold is what I'm trying to determine. I ask geared in that direction. Other (explain) will voice some clarity. |
Let me give you an extreme example. If I saw a big white guy covered with gang tattoos and swastikas swinging at slender, clean cut black guy in a business suit, the fact that I'm white would not make me root for the white guy. Could my race, background, and economic status affect how I reacted to a closer case? I suppose so, but my dominant reaction would be negative toward both of them. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | The bold is what I'm trying to determine. I ask geared in that direction. Other (explain) will voice some clarity. |
Let me give you an extreme example. If I saw a big white guy covered with gang tattoos and swastikas swinging at slender, clean cut black guy in a business suit, the fact that I'm white would not make me root for the white guy. Could my race, background, and economic status affect how I reacted to a closer case? I suppose so, but my dominant reaction would be negative toward both of them. |
Good example but as you say extreme. Lets administer no advantage to either. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | The bold is what I'm trying to determine. I ask geared in that direction. Other (explain) will voice some clarity. |
Let me give you an extreme example. If I saw a big white guy covered with gang tattoos and swastikas swinging at slender, clean cut black guy in a business suit, the fact that I'm white would not make me root for the white guy. Could my race, background, and economic status affect how I reacted to a closer case? I suppose so, but my dominant reaction would be negative toward both of them. |
Good example but as you say extreme. Lets administer no advantage to either, both equal physically. Only criteria based on tribe. How then? |
I don't know. I don't think race would affect me much, but then I'm atypical because of what I do for a living. For the same reason, I also am inclined to be more aware of my subconscious biases than the ordinary person. Culture, education, and age tend to have more of an influence on me than race. I have black, Latino, and Asian (mostly Indian or Pakistani) clients who are easier for me to relate to than some younger white clients.
Maybe this will be helpful. Suppose that I am flipping channels and happen to catch a boxing match, or an MMA bout, and one fighter is white and the other is non-white. I do have an instinctive reaction to identify (if that is the right word) with the white fighter more immediately. But many times I wind up pulling for the non-white fighter for whatever reason. So I suppose there may be a mild racial tug for me, and it's undoubtedly greater for other people. On the other hand, this may be an imperfect analogy, because the white fighter is often Sluggo Urnosevich from Belarus, and he isn't really really a member of my tribe. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | The bold is what I'm trying to determine. I ask geared in that direction. Other (explain) will voice some clarity. |
Let me give you an extreme example. If I saw a big white guy covered with gang tattoos and swastikas swinging at slender, clean cut black guy in a business suit, the fact that I'm white would not make me root for the white guy. Could my race, background, and economic status affect how I reacted to a closer case? I suppose so, but my dominant reaction would be negative toward both of them. |
Good example but as you say extreme. Lets administer no advantage to either, both equal physically. Only criteria based on tribe. How then? |
I don't know. I don't think race would affect me much, but then I'm atypical because of what I do for a living. For the same reason, I also am inclined to be more aware of my subconscious biases than the ordinary person. Culture, education, and age tend to have more of an influence on me than race. I have black, Latino, and Asian (mostly Indian or Pakistani) clients who are easier for me to relate to than some younger white clients.
Maybe this will be helpful. Suppose that I am flipping channels and happen to catch a boxing match, or an MMA bout, and one fighter is white and the other is non-white. I do have an instinctive reaction to identify (if that is the right word) with the white fighter more immediately. But many times I wind up pulling for the non-white fighter for whatever reason. So I suppose there may be a mild racial tug for me, and it's undoubtedly greater for other people. On the other hand, this may be an imperfect analogy, because the white fighter is often Sluggo Urnosevich from Belarus, and he isn't really really a member of my tribe. |
I amended my query because tribe narrowed. i think you replied before you saw the amendment. Amendment Quote: | Good example but as you say extreme. Lets administer no advantage to either. |
_________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52680 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Curiosity |
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jodeke wrote: | You see two people fighting on a corner. One of your ethnicity the other of another. You know nothing about the combatants or the reason for the altercation. In your heart of hearts, which person would you pull for to be the victor? |
It's a fight between two strangers. Why would I pick a side? Especially based solely on the race of one combatant or the other?
I likely simply move on because it's none of my business as opposed to standing around watching and trying to decide who I'm going to "pull for" to be a "victor".
If it's actually something more serious than a street corner brawl and someone is in serious peril, in that case I'm not going to "pull for" anyone to be a "victor". I'm going to hope their is a way I can intervene to help them. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Curiosity |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | jodeke wrote: | You see two people fighting on a corner. One of your ethnicity the other of another. You know nothing about the combatants or the reason for the altercation. In your heart of hearts, which person would you pull for to be the victor? |
It's a fight between two strangers. Why would I pick a side? Especially based solely on the race of one combatant or the other?
I likely simply move on because it's none of my business as opposed to standing around watching and trying to decide who I'm going to "pull for" to be a "victor".
If it's actually something more serious than a street corner brawl and someone is in serious peril, in that case I'm not going to "pull for" anyone to be a "victor". I'm going to hope their is a way I can intervene to help them. |
OK. I'm asking for deep seeded honesty, something many find difficult to display in a public forum. The underlying quest seeks a racial unveiled position. Speaking for myself, I, instinctively would pull for my tribe/race. It's a query that can and will be layered. It's something not easily simplified. I respect your position. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25115
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Curiosity |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | jodeke wrote: | You see two people fighting on a corner. One of your ethnicity the other of another. You know nothing about the combatants or the reason for the altercation. In your heart of hearts, which person would you pull for to be the victor? |
It's a fight between two strangers. Why would I pick a side? Especially based solely on the race of one combatant or the other?
I likely simply move on because it's none of my business as opposed to standing around watching and trying to decide who I'm going to "pull for" to be a "victor".
If it's actually something more serious than a street corner brawl and someone is in serious peril, in that case I'm not going to "pull for" anyone to be a "victor". I'm going to hope their is a way I can intervene to help them. |
I think Jodeke ask a fair question, does racial bias exist in all of us... yes, but would you act on it? I hope I won't in real life and be fair like you DMR |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Curiosity |
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governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | jodeke wrote: | You see two people fighting on a corner. One of your ethnicity the other of another. You know nothing about the combatants or the reason for the altercation. In your heart of hearts, which person would you pull for to be the victor? |
It's a fight between two strangers. Why would I pick a side? Especially based solely on the race of one combatant or the other?
I likely simply move on because it's none of my business as opposed to standing around watching and trying to decide who I'm going to "pull for" to be a "victor".
If it's actually something more serious than a street corner brawl and someone is in serious peril, in that case I'm not going to "pull for" anyone to be a "victor". I'm going to hope their is a way I can intervene to help them. |
I think Jodeke ask a fair question, does racial bias exist in all of us... yes, but would you act on it? I hope I won't in real life and be fair like you DMR |
To me act would be a personal choice. It wouldn't call for interference. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I haven't seen many street fights between strangers, but my rooting interests in combat sports have everything to do with the participants and nothing to do with their tribe.
Jod - did you get into another slap fight in the Depends aisle of Walgreens? QUIT MIXING GERITOL WITH ENSURE!!! |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | I haven't seen many street fights between strangers, but my rooting interests in combat sports have everything to do with the participants and nothing to do with their tribe.
Jod - did you get into another slap fight in the Depends aisle of Walgreens? QUIT MIXING GERITOL WITH ENSURE!!! |
Honestly I'm _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | I haven't seen many street fights between strangers, but my rooting interests in combat sports have everything to do with the participants and nothing to do with their tribe.
Jod - did you get into another slap fight in the Depends aisle of Walgreens? QUIT MIXING GERITOL WITH ENSURE!!! |
Honestly I'm |
FWIW - I was rooting for you.
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | jodeke wrote: | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | I haven't seen many street fights between strangers, but my rooting interests in combat sports have everything to do with the participants and nothing to do with their tribe.
Jod - did you get into another slap fight in the Depends aisle of Walgreens? QUIT MIXING GERITOL WITH ENSURE!!! |
Honestly I'm |
FWIW - I was rooting for you.
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GTH JMK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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loslakersss Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 11853 Location: LA
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:48 am Post subject: |
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loslakersss wrote: | Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
I'm seeking the subconscious. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
I'm seeking the subconscious. |
By asking the conscious?
I don't think you need to use your analogy to get to what you're seeking. There are plenty of non-hypothetical examples in current every day living that highlight our tendencies to be amongst those most similar to us. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | jodeke wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
I'm seeking the subconscious. |
By asking the conscious?
I don't think you need to use your analogy to get to what you're seeking. There are plenty of non-hypothetical examples in current every day living that highlight our tendencies to be amongst those most similar to us. |
OK. Feel free to choose one and apply it to what I'm seeking. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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JerryMagicKobe Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
I'm seeking the subconscious. |
Then you already know the answer.
Regardless of how any one individual responds in this thread, human evolution has depended upon alliances based on commonality and tribalism. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Sure, well, first of all, I would argue that the tendency for people to "root for their tribe" is based more on culture, than on skin color, although, those two are often, but not always, intertwined. That explains why even non-minority Americans will typically root for a minority American olympian before say, a non-minority Russian olympian. (Though, if they are Russian-American, they may root for the Russian over the minority American but that's a function of culture, not skin color).
As examples, you can look at community formation. Vast majority of countries are homogeneous and even when you look at diverse countries such as the U.S., once you break it down to the community level, you tend to get pockets of people living amongst those that share their culture (and incidentally, skin color for the most part).
I think one of the best examples of this is in asian communities. If it was about skin color, you'd see them generally mixed. But usually those communities are not. The communities will usually be cities heavily populated by say Japanese-Americans versus Chinese, etc. Same skin color, different culture.
For the most part, IMO, skin color only comes in to play in the absence of all other information which is rarely the case in a real world environment. This is why you are getting responses from folks that are seeking to apply other contexts. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: |
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JerryMagicKobe wrote: | jodeke wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | Between 2 strangers, I wouldn't care for either. Naturally I would probably "root" for the guy that was losing rather than the guy that shares the same ethnicity with me.
I think the tribe mentality more often has to do with knowing the person/be familiar with them rather than them just being the same skin color; although we've seen plenty of cases where that is not true. |
I'm seeking the subconscious. |
Then you already know the answer.
Regardless of how any one individual responds in this thread, human evolution has depended upon alliances based on commonality and tribalism. |
Knowing the answer is impossible. No one knows what's in the mind of another.
Isn't the subconscious triggered by what's taught/learned? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67818 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:26 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Sure, well, first of all, I would argue that the tendency for people to "root for their tribe" is based more on culture, than on skin color, although, those two are often, but not always, intertwined. That explains why even non-minority Americans will typically root for a minority American olympian before say, a non-minority Russian olympian. (Though, if they are Russian-American, they may root for the Russian over the minority American but that's a function of culture, not skin color).
As examples, you can look at community formation. Vast majority of countries are homogeneous and even when you look at diverse countries such as the U.S., once you break it down to the community level, you tend to get pockets of people living amongst those that share their culture (and incidentally, skin color for the most part).
I think one of the best examples of this is in asian communities. If it was about skin color, you'd see them generally mixed. But usually those communities are not. The communities will usually be cities heavily populated by say Japanese-Americans versus Chinese, etc. Same skin color, different culture.
For the most part, IMO, skin color only comes in to play in the absence of all other information which is rarely the case in a real world environment. This is why you are getting responses from folks that are seeking to apply other contexts. |
Would you say tribe and culture are closely related? Skin color is something you injected, not asked. The question is One of your ethnicity the other of another. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90310 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Sure, well, first of all, I would argue that the tendency for people to "root for their tribe" is based more on culture, than on skin color, although, those two are often, but not always, intertwined. That explains why even non-minority Americans will typically root for a minority American olympian before say, a non-minority Russian olympian. (Though, if they are Russian-American, they may root for the Russian over the minority American but that's a function of culture, not skin color).
As examples, you can look at community formation. Vast majority of countries are homogeneous and even when you look at diverse countries such as the U.S., once you break it down to the community level, you tend to get pockets of people living amongst those that share their culture (and incidentally, skin color for the most part).
I think one of the best examples of this is in asian communities. If it was about skin color, you'd see them generally mixed. But usually those communities are not. The communities will usually be cities heavily populated by say Japanese-Americans versus Chinese, etc. Same skin color, different culture.
For the most part, IMO, skin color only comes in to play in the absence of all other information which is rarely the case in a real world environment. This is why you are getting responses from folks that are seeking to apply other contexts. |
Skin color is probably the most predominant tribal factor; what you are bringing up is what happens in the lack of that distinction; but the world over, the lighter is almost always favored to the darker. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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