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Official MAGINKA Front Office Thread (Ignored coaching staff's pleas to re-sign Brook Lopez and Randle pg. 145)
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

How many of those teams traded all of their cost controlled assets and picks for those players?... None

No one has a problem with a reasonable trade... but only an unreasonable trade will get this done.

32
Retired Number

Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73102

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject:

Sago wrote:

32 wrote:

Jim needed to go. Do you ever wonder why he hasn't gotten a job working for another team as an executive. It's because he was incompetent as head of basketball operations for the Lakers. No team would hire him. The signings of Moz/Deng were one of the worst signings in Lakers history. And he was feeling so generous he gave JC a 4 year $50M contract. Jeanie did the right thing firing Jim. Magic now has his chance.

Wait what?!?!?!

Prob one of the MAIn reason is he owns the lakers?!?! :

He sux thhough

Yeah I just recognized that. lol
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.

Hero Ball
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

Well they didn't have Mozgov and Dengs contracts to begin with.

I think those contracts were significant

_________________
Trade AD now.

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

Well they didn't have Mozgov and Dengs contracts to begin with.

I think those contracts were significant

I'm not talking about clearing Clarkson/Randle/Nance/DLo/Zubac/Svi

I'm talking about adding to the list... Zo/BI/Kuz/Hart... and probably Mo/Bonga and picks, one which will likely be a lotto pick.

Signing AD in 2020 is a good move. Not for LBJ... but it is for the Lakers.
We add him... keep the good parts of the core... and trade the rest for the second up and coming star.

Trading everyone else this summer... isn't wise unless we have Kyrie or another elite agent secured first.

I would laugh if we traded our lotto pick and by some miracle it turned into Zion.

Then people might finally understand the magnitude of our potential overpay.

Beir32
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Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

While my post had nothing to do with a trade in any way I'd like to applaud you for letting us all know how much you disliked the AD trade offer. Again.

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

While my post had nothing to do with a trade in any way I'd like to applaud you for letting us all know how much you disliked the AD trade offer. Again.

If I saw a young child continuously about to stick his hand into a wood chipper with people cheering him on... yes I'd probably say they shouldn't do it over and over... No matter how annoying it might be.

LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player

Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16182

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

where24happens wrote:

The free agent plan was and is literally our only chance. Do you really think our core + DLo + Randle would've made the playoffs this year? That is an insane take. Our young core lost to the Knicks and Cavs this year, they are demonstrably one of the worst teams in the NBA without Lebron. Getting superstars is the only way. We don't have the homegrown talent to do a full rebuild organically, the young guys just aren't good enough.

LongBeachPoly wrote:

This is why it's so hard to have a conversation. Everything has to be an exact quote or the conversation goes no where.

I mean, you are against the max FA plan. Ok, seems like you'd rather have stayed the course?

Nope, you say that's not it either. Yeah, I have no idea then.

I'll include you both in this response. I've explained how I would have preferred to approach things many, many times over the past eight months, and I'm not going to give you the full blown explanation. The disconnect is that both of you are seeing things in binary terms: the two max FA strategy or stick with the kids. There is a third option: function like a competent NBA front office. If you don't want to keep a player, trade the player for value. If you see a good opportunity to make a trade or sign a free agent, go for it. Accumulate assets and use them.

Chasing superstars in free agency is not the only way to play the game. That's a quick fix strategy, and it is actually high risk. The free agents can blow you off. The free agents can take your money, then underachieve for whatever reason. The free agents can take your money, play just fine, but not be good enough to overcome the lack of a roster, because you've stripped it bare to clear cap space.

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent? I guess you could make an argument about Durant, but really the answer is None. Collectively, our biggest problem is that Laker Nation lives in the past and is encumbered by memories of picking up Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq. We did sign Lebron, but a lot of people are finally realizing that this is a different kettle of fish.

If Magic pulls off the quick fix this summer, I'll tip my cap to him. If he doesn't, then we could easily wind up kicking the can down the street for five years. In fact, even if he signs one of the lesser free agents, we could wind up kicking the can down the street for five years. Magic needs to get everything right this summer.

Yeah, if it's the quick fix, it's not just the Lakers strategy. It's also the Clippers strategy, the Knick's strategy. That was the Heat strategy when they built up that Heat team.

I mean, Jerry West is clearing the deck to attract Kawhi and whoever else.

You say - things aren't binary - there's a 3rd option. Ok, but you really have to pick a path. In order to have cap space, you have to have some kind of plan. Cap space doesn't just happen. You've got to target who you want to go after, and you have to figure out how to create enough cap space to go after that FA. It doesn't just happen.

And your question - "Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?"

Let's take a look at the top teams:

1) GS -
2) Milwaukee -
3) Toronto -
4) Denver -
5) Sixers -

How many years do you want to go back on these teams?

Milwaukee hasn't been relevant in forever until they drafted a Greek kid as the no. 15 pick and he blossomed into the best player in the game. Meanwhile, all their other lottery picks pretty much fizzled out (Jabari Parker, Thon Maker, etc.)

Toronto - they took a huge gamble trading for Kawhi w/ one year left on his contract. How's this any different than creating cap space to try and sign Kawhi?

Denver - they haven't been relevant since the Carmelo days. How'd they get this good? Well, it took a 2nd rd pick blossoming into a superstar center.

GS - how many rebuilds did they go through before they hit it with Draymond, Curry and Thompson? Chris Webber, Billy Owens, Baron Davis, Monta Ellis? Andres Biedrins?

Sixers - yeah, they tanked pretty hard and came up with 2 franchise players.

See, you can't cherry pick the top teams in the league and say SEE? All these teams have had years and years of failure before they stumbled upon some formula that worked.

Magic's had 2 years? And you're judging him against all these other teams that have had 20+ years of trial and error?

Bottom line, you need a superstar to win in this league. However way you manage to acquire one - you need one. Of the 5 teams above, 4 of them drafted their superstars. One of them traded for their superstar. Unless you want to wait for the Lakers to draft and develop a superstar, what other ways are there to acquire one?

They've tried drafting one (Lonzo) - that isn't likely to pan out
They've tried signing one (LeBron) - that worked
They've tried trading for one (AD) - that didn't work out

Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

Beir32
Star Player

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

While my post had nothing to do with a trade in any way I'd like to applaud you for letting us all know how much you disliked the AD trade offer. Again.

1. That analogy is nonsense.
2. What does anything you said have to do with signing a free agent to compete for a title?

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

While my post had nothing to do with a trade in any way I'd like to applaud you for letting us all know how much you disliked the AD trade offer. Again.

1. That analogy is nonsense.
2. What does anything you said have to do with signing a free agent to compete for a title?

The argument for pairing two superstars makes sense.

I'm all for the sign two FAs plan... always have been.

What I'm not down with is the trading 7 to 10 assets for a superstar who hasn't won anything part.

But people keep bringing up teams with two superstars like it has some relevance.

It doesn't unless one of those teams traded 7 to 10 assets.

Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:49 pm Post subject:

32 wrote:

Jim needed to go. The signings of Moz/Deng were one of the worst signings in Lakers history. And he was feeling so generous he gave JC a 4 year $50M contract. Jeanie did the right thing firing Jim. Magic now has his chance.

The Clarkson contract is hindsight. He was a promising, young player back then and what we signed him for seemed reasonable at the time given he was probably our best player and he was only 23 back then. Most people didn't think his progress would end up stalling like that. If we didn't offer him that money, someone else would have.

Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Houston traded for Harden and CP3.
OKC traded for PG13.
Golden State traded for Iggy.
Horford and Hayward aren't superstars

LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player

Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16182

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Houston traded for Harden and CP3.
OKC traded for PG13.
Golden State traded for Iggy.
Horford and Hayward aren't superstars

What is the actual point? That it's ok to sign non-superstars to max deals but don't chase the actual susperstars in free agency?

Wino
Star Player

Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

And who will make a reasonable trade with the Lakers anymore??
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject:

Wino wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

Beir32 wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?

Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward

Well yeah sure but other than those five…none.

And who will make a reasonable trade with the Lakers anymore??

If no one will make one you don't do it.

where24happens
Star Player

Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject:

I have no earthly idea what some are arguing here - that we shouldn't try to get superstars? Senseless.

Wino
Star Player

Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:40 pm Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

where24happens wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Also, doesn't take too much historical reference to point out that the whole Lakers history of winning was in go after superstar players, either through trade or as a FA. First we got Wilt, then we got Jabbar, then we got Shaq, and finally we got Pau. Not to mention all the guys like McAdoo, Thompson, Fox, etc.

The whole Laker franchise has been about pursuing guys we didn't draft to win championships. No offense but this whole argument is simply one of the weakest arguments I have ever heard.
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:43 pm Post subject:

where24happens wrote:

I have no earthly idea what some are arguing here - that we shouldn't try to get superstars? Senseless.

Superstars as free agents or for three or four pieces = good

Superstars for 7 to 10 assets =/= good

For the TLDR crowd

trablos
Star Player

Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:44 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

where24happens wrote:

I have no earthly idea what some are arguing here - that we shouldn't try to get superstars? Senseless.

Superstars as free agents or for three or four pieces = good

Superstars for 7 to 10 assets =/= good

For the TLDR crowd

I'm not sure anyone would disagree with this.

RG73
Franchise Player

Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:48 pm Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

I would laugh if we traded our lotto pick and by some miracle it turned into Zion.

Umm, isn't the lottery determined before the June 1st? So wouldn't we know before free agency/trading is open if we have the #1 pick? I'm pretty sure not even this FO would trade Zion.

venturalakersfan
Retired Number

Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144478
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:

Dr. Laker wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

Stumpy25 wrote:

I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now?

I don't care. Magic sinks or swims on his own merits. I am over the old regime. If you think they were galactically incompetent, then they are not the standard by which anyone should be judged.

Lakers in February 2017:

- Chained to cap-killing contracts of Mozgov & Deng
- Owed a 2018 LOTTERY PICK to Phoenix
- Coming of the losingest 4-year stretch (by winning%) in franchise history

Lakers in February 2019

- Signed LBJ - yes, some of you hate LBJ, but he's LEBRON JAMES!
- Still has cap room to sign the most expensive FA on the market
- No bad contracts on the roster
- Prime Superstars want to play here.

I know the Randle-stans are hurt . . . but Randle went to a playoff team and made it worse.

I know the DLO-stans are hurt . . . DLO was the price for signing LBJ (with a side order of Kuzma)

I know the Mitch/Buss crowd is seeking vindication - get over it. The Sun is shining in Laker Land again.

Yes sir. Randle is so bad his team put him on the block in 40 odd games.

Zubac, the LG masiah was 3/1/1 with a net negative of 35 last night.

What does that say about our young players being shopped at the deadline with being able to fetch anything in return?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144478
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:

Hero Ball wrote:

Quote:

Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations

there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah

He mishandled it in numerous ways. Not making a better effort at trading for him (make him feel wanted--he probably felt a little slighted that the Lakers valued Brandon Who? over him). And the way Magic handled Mintz and his clients was a huge blunder. You'd think having an agent in his front office would have avoided this.

Plus I am sure that George thought the Thunder could compete this season. And they are.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject:

trablos wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

where24happens wrote:

I have no earthly idea what some are arguing here - that we shouldn't try to get superstars? Senseless.

Superstars as free agents or for three or four pieces = good

Superstars for 7 to 10 assets =/= good

For the TLDR crowd

I'm not sure anyone would disagree with this.

But we already know three or four pieces won't get this done.

And we moved Zu!

This is why I'm nervous... Not because I think Zu is the second coming... but because we cleared away a center before knowing the score next season.

Unless we made an oral agreement with Vucevic or something similar, I think it means they still have their heart set on AD or bust.

venturalakersfan
Retired Number

Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144478
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject:

32 wrote:

And we are still a lottery team after 2.5 seasons.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

Sentient Meat
Franchise Player

Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject:

RG73 wrote:

Sentient Meat wrote:

I would laugh if we traded our lotto pick and by some miracle it turned into Zion.

Umm, isn't the lottery determined before the June 1st? So wouldn't we know before free agency/trading is open if we have the #1 pick? I'm pretty sure not even this FO would trade Zion.

Good point about the lotto... that being said... Yes, I can see them trading the pick for AD... I'm not saying they would... but anyone capable of the godfather offer... is capable of trading the pick.

Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject:

Wino wrote:

Welcome to 2019. Part of the problem is that Jeanie and Magic are struggling to adapt to the NBA as it exists today.

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