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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: Moral of the Story: Stop Trying to Trade for Stars |
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It just won't happen with the Lakers.
First it was PG. I have no doubt the Pacers had no intention of trading him to the Lakers of all teams.
Then KL. Popovich. Need I say more?
Then this debacle with the Pels.
The Lakers are right in one respect, to use free agency to aquire stars. Despite missing 5 straight playoffs, we have teams still bitter about the Pau trade, and I'm sure they're still upset at how Magic and Worthy joined the Lakers too.
We seem to walk into this trap with the other cackling with laughter. As RG73 pointed out, very few will be upset to see a star traded to the Knicks or even Boston, but the Lakers? Nah, regulators, mount up.
I just don't think teams will deal in good faith with the Lakers in a trade for an all star.
Disclaimer: I could be completely wrong and AD gets traded here. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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tony Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2010 Posts: 1274
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Recently, anytime we're linked to the star that wants to be traded, it's nearly impossible because the team that's trading the star doesn't want to look like they're getting "robbed" so the asking is (bleep) ridiculous.
On top of that, I don't see any other reports from Pop telling [x] team to not cave in..like wtf is that lol
Last edited by tony on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I never wanted to trade for PG or KL because of this very issue. #1 we had capspace but more importantly, these teams are not going to help the Lakers unless they are going to fleece us. They want to make sure we are never a championship contender and getting 4 1st round picks is how to do that. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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tony wrote: | Recently, anytime we're linked to the star that wants to be traded, it's nearly impossible because the team that's trading the star doesn't want to look like they're getting "robbed" so the asking is (bleep) ridiculous. |
Yeah. If a player demands a trade to the Lakers, it's like an affront to the 29 other teams. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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sogood. Star Player
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1821
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Real moral of the story:
Draft better. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | I never wanted to trade for PG or KL because of this very issue. #1 we had capspace but more importantly, these teams are not going to help the Lakers unless they are going to fleece us. They want to make sure we are never a championship contender and getting 4 1st round picks is how to do that. |
The fact it's 2019 and Pop is still whispering into Demps's ear about Pau... _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25219
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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And what?
Try to sign Star FA? been trying since before Kobe retired, got LeBron I guess it's possible
Tank? done that, produced 1 all star so far out of half a decade tanking |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | And what?
Try to sign Star FA? been trying since before Kobe retired, got LeBron I guess it's possible
Tank? done that, produced 1 all star so far out of half a decade tanking |
Um yes, LBJ is kind of a big signing, no?
But trading for one, I just don't think it'll happen. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Moral is don’t try to force a trade for a star.
Go after all-stars such as Beal or Kemba on the downlow. |
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LakerDynasty6.0 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 4661
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Nopes.. Contrary to popular belief, i don't believe the remaining 29 teams are all against the Lakers.
This was just a case of NO not wanting to do anything. Happens all the time in Sales! If you don't want to do anything you can make progressively crazy requests... and at some point the other party will figure out you ain't serious and move on. The Lakers did just that! _________________ Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
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....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | I never wanted to trade for PG or KL because of this very issue. #1 we had capspace but more importantly, these teams are not going to help the Lakers unless they are going to fleece us. They want to make sure we are never a championship contender and getting 4 1st round picks is how to do that. |
The fact it's 2019 and Pop is still whispering into Demps's ear about Pau... |
Which is hilarious because although it looked lopsided initially, it was one of the more fair trades that happened for a star.
Now look at Ainge fleecing teams and they still want to do business with him? Get out of here. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | Moral is don’t try to force a trade for a star.
Go after all-stars such as Beal or Kemba on the downlow. |
Right, when a star demands a trade, seems to get the others even more fired up.
Add the Klutch angle on top the heaping Lakers pyre that is lit and you have a conflagration of all conflagrations. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | Nopes.. Contrary to popular belief, i don't believe the remaining 29 teams are all against the Lakers.
This was just a case of NO not wanting to do anything. Happens all the time in Sales! If you don't want to do anything you can make progressively crazy requests... and at some point the other party will figure out you ain't serious and move on. The Lakers did just that! |
And then PG/KL?
Do your customers purposely decline to deal with you in good faith like these teams? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
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https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
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https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
But is that reasonable? BI AND #2 pick for a free agent to be? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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FO could also look to go after over priced vets. Unfortunately we don’t have Dengs contract anymore, but Lakers could have made a play for Gasol and Conley.
Youth, Lebron, Gasol and Conley might be enough to win. |
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LakerDynasty6.0 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 4661
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | Nopes.. Contrary to popular belief, i don't believe the remaining 29 teams are all against the Lakers.
This was just a case of NO not wanting to do anything. Happens all the time in Sales! If you don't want to do anything you can make progressively crazy requests... and at some point the other party will figure out you ain't serious and move on. The Lakers did just that! |
And then PG/KL?
Do your customers purposely decline to deal with you in good faith like these teams? |
Often not but sometimes yes. And it could be for all kinds of reasons.. there's one invariant though. If the person you're negotiating with is not the one with the authority to negotiate, is green or doesn't have the fortitude to negotiate, often there isn't a deal.
The main thing i was trying to say, is that this cannot be a judgement on NO or even the other 28 teams. After all, come April Demps may be gone, and we might start over again with a new GM. Don't need to burn bridges with the organization. Heck, if I was Pelinka, I'd even ask about Mirotic right away _________________ Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
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....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | FO could also look to go after over priced vets. Unfortunately we don’t have Dengs contract anymore, but Lakers could have made a play for Gasol and Conley.
Youth, Lebron, Gasol and Conley might be enough to win. |
I'm actually wondering if that's a Plan C. Absorb these guys somehow if we miss on everything. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
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https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
But is that reasonable? BI AND #2 pick for a free agent to be? |
Yes, because he was only 26 entering his prime & told us he was going to re-sign here. BI was coming off one of the WOAT rookie seasons. PG is a top 3 MVP candidate right now playing w/ Westbrook. I could only imagine how potent we would be with Bron & PG teamed up. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25219
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | governator wrote: | And what?
Try to sign Star FA? been trying since before Kobe retired, got LeBron I guess it's possible
Tank? done that, produced 1 all star so far out of half a decade tanking |
Um yes, LBJ is kind of a big signing, no?
But trading for one, I just don't think it'll happen. |
I don't kno anymore now man, it's basically gamble to sign a star FA this summer which looking like our FO been told slim chance vs gambling on trading for a non-AD star in the next 48 hours... how the hell we get to this limbo, it was so promising when the season started |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
The main thing i was trying to say, is that this cannot be a judgement on NO or even the other 28 teams. After all, come April Demps may be gone, and we might start over again with a new GM. Don't need to burn bridges with the organization. Heck, if I was Pelinka, I'd even ask about Mirotic right away
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I don't think it's reasonably objective to say that teams are negotiating with us in good faith. They seem more concerned about ensuring we don't get a star.
Maybe this continues to the offseason but the parameters will be completely different then. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | LakerMindLA wrote: | FO could also look to go after over priced vets. Unfortunately we don’t have Dengs contract anymore, but Lakers could have made a play for Gasol and Conley.
Youth, Lebron, Gasol and Conley might be enough to win. |
I'm actually wondering if that's a Plan C. Absorb these guys somehow if we miss on everything. |
Another reason I was pissed about Deng being waived. Could have been used in a plan C move. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
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https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
But is that reasonable? BI AND #2 pick for a free agent to be? |
Yes, because he was only 26 entering his prime & told us he was going to re-sign here. BI was coming off one of the WOAT rookie seasons. PG is a top 3 MVP candidate right now playing w/ Westbrook. I could only imagine how potent we would be with Bron & PG teamed up. |
But to give up both is what I'm asking. BI, sure, but it's not crazy to think that PG who was flashing his LA legs would sign.
I mean Dipo/Sabonis were widely seen as salary dumps. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Moral of the Story: Stop Trying to Trade for Stars |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | It just won't happen with the Lakers.
First it was PG. I have no doubt the Pacers had no intention of trading him to the Lakers of all teams.
Then KL. Popovich. Need I say more?
Then this debacle with the Pels.
The Lakers are right in one respect, to use free agency to aquire stars. Despite missing 5 straight playoffs, we have teams still bitter about the Pau trade, and I'm sure they're still upset at how Magic and Worthy joined the Lakers too.
We seem to walk into this trap with the other cackling with laughter. As RG73 pointed out, very few will be upset to see a star traded to the Knicks or even Boston, but the Lakers? Nah, regulators, mount up.
I just don't think teams will deal in good faith with the Lakers in a trade for an all star.
Disclaimer: I could be completely wrong and AD gets traded here. |
We've made trade for all-stars post Gasol. For example, even though Nash and Howard didn't work out here, they were both coming off all-star seasons when we traded for them.
This may simply be a case that other teams don't really value our young guys all that highly, so they take other offers.
After all, Leonard landed an all-NBA player, and George landed a player who immediately became an all-star, so I can't really say that we presented the best offer to the Spurs and Raptors. In hindsight, they they took the best offer, especially the Pacers.
Apparently, we are offering a ton of players to the Pelican, but if they don't think Ingram, Zu, Ball and Kuz will ever become more than average NBA players, I can see why they aren't blown away. The value of our offer depends on your guess of how these guys will develop. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | After all, Leonard landed an all-NBA player, and George landed a player who immediately became an all-star, so I can't really say that we presented the best offer to the Spurs and Raptors. |
DIPO was widely panned as a salary dump after being signed to a then-overinflated deal with Magic who traded him to OKC who then traded him as a dump to the Pacers.
But the sentiment exists, most recently with Sarver apparently saying he wouldn't trade Ariza to the Lakers b/c...they're the Lakers. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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