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Huey Lewis & The News Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 5234 Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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999 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I don’t get why it’s offensive? It’s telling a positive message that men should not be violent misogynistic sex hounds.
And as far as the top comment in YouTube. It was Cenk Ungyer who denied the Armenia halocaust but since he changed his mind. Anna is Armenian. When cenk believed in that he was a hard republican.
As far as the dislikes? I think Those people want to be stuck in the 1920’s where women are just barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: |
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999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? It’s telling a positive message that men should not be raised as misogynistic sex hounds.
And as far as the top comment in YouTube. It was Cenk Ungyer who denied the Armenia halocaust but since he changed his mind. Anna is Armenian. When cenk believed in that he was a hard republican.
As far as the dislikes? I think Those people want to be stuck in the 1920’s where women are just barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen |
Yeah it's not offensive, it's just a silly woke scold that we're seeing so much of these days.
It doesn't offend me, I found it more humorous than anything, but I can see why some people would be offended by this message because it is highlighting negative behavior and applying it to a group as a whole rather than promoting what the desired behavior is. There's also some real negative stereotyping going on which I'm personally not a fan of. Also, some of the behavior they are suggesting that is negative, isn't necessarily so. Saying the words "boys will be boys" isn't inherently wrong. In the video, the two brothers were wrestling. I'm not sure why a man would be a misogynist if he allows his kids to wrestle. Or is it misogynist one who says "boys will be boys" but it's actually ok to let them wrestle? Anyway...
That said, I understand the dilution strategy around their execution. They are appealing to the male masses here so it has to be done that way. In short, every man has to feel some semblance of misogyny because the path out can only be via a Gillette Mach 4 Turbo razor with replacement blades package.
This is a big risk for Gillette because they are finger-wagging at their target demo. You don't normally see this. The Nike Kap ad was different. Yes, equally controversial, but it wasn't finger-wagging at any particular race or group of people.
Man, I wish I were in some of those planning meetings just to see all of the discussions that went on to produce this. I'll be really interested to see whether this results in a sales increase of their razors and blades.
(BTW, your comment at the end there, it's a part of the reason people don't like this ad because that is the exact false choice mindset we have today. That is, you have two choices, agree with me or you are _________. So if someone says, yeaaahhh I don't know about this ad, well, they are a misogynist and there's no other way around it). |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16214
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:57 am Post subject: |
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999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? It’s telling a positive message that men should not be violent misogynistic sex hounds. |
It would be the equivalent of Victoria Secret putting out a "positive message" to all women urging them to not do something bad/negative. That would not be well received by women.
Maybe Gillette will do more of these. Maybe the'll have one urging all men to pay their child support, stop joining gangs, stop committing violent crimes, stop cheating on their wives, stop mass shootings, etc. Maybe a new one each month.
This ad sent to 100% of the men but applies to what, 1% of the men?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | 999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? It’s telling a positive message that men should not be violent misogynistic sex hounds. |
It would be the equivalent of Victoria Secret putting out a "positive message" to all women urging them to not do something bad/negative. That would not be well received by women. |
Bingo.
What they did is highly unusual compared to the growing trend in woke marketing so I'm super interested in seeing the impact. My gut says it won't be good, but I don't know that we'll ever actually know how it truly performed. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25231
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
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what's woke |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | what's woke |
It started off as sort of ... an indication that you're aware to, and speak up about, the injustices and discrimination in our society.
But everyone wants to be woke now so it's become a bit of a fad/trend and any time that happens, the advertisers typically jump on board.
Not sure how many of you guys are in marketing but it is pretty hilarious to hear some of the strategy meetings that go on about how brands need to be woke now in order stay relevant. *sigh* |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 54014
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I don’t get why it’s offensive? |
It’s not, they just want you to talk about it. It’s right wing catnip more than anything. Their ad is getting news coverage now. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52712 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? |
Because you're not one of those who the message hits too close to home to. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | 999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? |
Because you're not one of those who the message hits too close to home to. |
No, that isn't it. |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28585 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | 999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? |
Because you're not one of those who the message hits too close to home to. |
White fragility. Or in this case, masculine fragility. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Don Draper wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | 999 wrote: | I don’t get why it’s offensive? |
Because you're not one of those who the message hits too close to home to. |
White fragility. Or in this case, masculine fragility. |
It's people fragility. The need to be offended by something. It's pretty pathetic no?
Anyway, this ad wasn't offensive to me -- but it's pretty stupid. Flip the script and do this same type of ad to any other group and those outraged won't just be the people who engage in the stereotype. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
Just curious. Do you have any issues with the rhetoric around illegal immigrants engaging in criminal behavior?
Because I do -- but not because it hits too close to home for me. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
Just curious. Do you have any issues with the rhetoric around illegal immigrants engaging in criminal behavior?
Because I do -- but not because it hits too close to home for me. |
Yes I do and I know what picture you're trying to paint and its a little deceiving. While I don't have the stats on hand I believe I've read that illegal immigrants commit less crimes than American citizens. On the other hand I don't think that anyone would argue that a lot of men, even progressive ones have feelings towards women that would be considered retrograde. Just look at the people at the highest political positions in the country. Since when did a message about being a better person qualify as stupid or offensive? _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
Just curious. Do you have any issues with the rhetoric around illegal immigrants engaging in criminal behavior?
Because I do -- but not because it hits too close to home for me. |
Yes I do and I know what picture you're trying to paint and its a little deceiving. While I don't have the stats on hand I believe I've read that illegal immigrants commit less crimes than American citizens. On the other hand I don't think that anyone would argue that a lot of men, even progressive ones have feelings towards women that would be considered retrograde. Just look at the people at the highest political positions in the country. Since when did a message about being a better person qualify as stupid or offensive? |
Ahh, so you're saying that it's ok if the data meets some arbitrary threshold?
So if I had data that showed that illegal immigrants commit the crime of kidnapping for instance, more often than citizens, THEN you'd be ok with ad featuring illegal immigrants kidnapping people and a message saying "immigrants stop kidnapping people"? That's ridiculous man.
This is the problem. You think this Gillette ad is showing a "positive message" It's not. It's shaming. Again, I found it funny, not offensive, but I can see why some among the sensitive masses in 2019 would find it offensive.
They are pitting a male parent who allows their child to wrestle with his brother on the same level as sexual assault. If you're a man that likes to BBQ, because we all know every man does, then you too are an example of toxic masculinity. It was a mistake to align innocuous things with the toxic things and lump them together IMO. Taking an extreme example, if you showed a man sexually assaulting a woman in violent fashion and said don't do this, I don't think you'd get the same reaction. |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16214
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: |
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You know what's kind of ironic about this whole thing too? It's funny.
I'm seeing some stuff out there, granted its Twitter, where the backlash to the ad backlash, is that the offended men need to man up. |
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Heartburn Star Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 6352 Location: The Titanic that is the USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. _________________ You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16214
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Heartburn wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. |
Sure, so why only men though? Why not raise awareness for men and women? Gillette didn't feel that women needed to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior? Women shouldn't strive for that either?
Women are good on that front? There's no positive message that could be sent to women as well? Only men need this positive encouragement?
And how come it's coming out now? Because of some negative stuff that SOME men did? So everytime SOME men do negative stuff, Gillette's going to send out a message to ALL men reminding them to not do the bad stuff that SOME men do?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52712 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Heartburn wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. |
Exactly. And it's not "aimed" at the sexual predators. It's purpose is to remind people that the societal attitudes that downplay the significance of the behavior ("boys will be boys" etc.) are an issue that needs to be left behind.
And if there is anyone who doesn't see that as still an issue has had their head bury deep in the sand (or elsewhere) the last couple of years. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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20,000 Retired Number
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 29999 Location: Likely nowhere near you
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | Heartburn wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. |
Sure, so why only men though? Why not raise awareness for men and women? Gillette didn't feel that women needed to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior? Women shouldn't strive for that either?
Women are good on that front? There's no positive message that could be sent to women as well? Only men need this positive encouragement?
And how come it's coming out now? Because of some negative stuff that some men did? So everytime some men do negative stuff, Gillette's going to send out a message to ALL men reminding them to not do the bad stuff that some men do? |
Because this is a company that makes products for men.
What a silly argument you make. I want to believe it is a joke.
And why now? Why not now? For too long we have held the belief that whatever men do is OK. Look at the president's "lockerroom talk" defense. Or the treatment of women in general. People just accepted it before, but no longer do we want to live in a society that treats men and women in this fashion.
Why now? Why not 100000 years ago? _________________ Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16214
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:58 am Post subject: |
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20,000 wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | Heartburn wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. |
Sure, so why only men though? Why not raise awareness for men and women? Gillette didn't feel that women needed to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior? Women shouldn't strive for that either?
Women are good on that front? There's no positive message that could be sent to women as well? Only men need this positive encouragement?
And how come it's coming out now? Because of some negative stuff that some men did? So everytime some men do negative stuff, Gillette's going to send out a message to ALL men reminding them to not do the bad stuff that some men do? |
Because this is a company that makes products for men.
What a silly argument you make. I want to believe it is a joke.
And why now? Why not now? For too long we have held the belief that whatever men do is OK. Look at the president's "lockerroom talk" defense. Or the treatment of women in general. People just accepted it before, but no longer do we want to live in a society that treats men and women in this fashion.
Why now? Why not 100000 years ago? |
So Gillette doesn't make women products? Women don't shave their legs? Women don't buy Gillette products?
So I guess we should be expecting Victoria Secret to come out with some positive reinforcement messages for women as well right?
You know, teacher sexual predators.
And why is your argument directed towards MEN in general? Aren't the criminals the actual perpetrators? Why are all MEN now guilty?
I'm not a sexual predator. Is the ad directed towards me? Do I need this positive reinforcement? Who are the ads directed towards anyways? The ones who do these acts or the ones who don't? Or both? |
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LakersChamps04 Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 3737
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I dont know why anyone still buys Gillette razors or shavers. There's many better and cheaper alternatives out there. I haven't bought Gillette in yearssss |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | Heartburn wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
What about the 99% of the men that DON'T act that way to begin with? Is the ad targeting them? Or just the 1% that acts that way?
Is this an ad for Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Kevin Spacey? If they didn't do what they did, would Gillette have made this ad?
Because they were sexual predators, now we all have to watch an ad lecturing us not to be sexual predators/perverts? |
There are a million shades of grey between being a sexual predator and a person who truly appreciates what women have had to endure over the course of history at the hands of men. Encouraging people to raise their level of self-awareness, empathy and improving their behavior should be something we all strive for. |
Exactly. And it's not "aimed" at the sexual predators. It's purpose is to remind people that the societal attitudes that downplay the significance of the behavior ("boys will be boys" etc.) are an issue that needs to be left behind.
And if there is anyone who doesn't see that as still an issue has had their head bury deep in the sand (or elsewhere) the last couple of years. |
Anyone who can't see the difference in "boys will be boys" referring to two boys wrestling versus committing rape is the one with their head in the sand. |
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