I don't know what to think of the guy on defense, but I haven't seen a big man with as natural of a shooting touch as Bol Bol since Dirk:
Right now I'm trying hard to convince myself Bol isn't the #2 pick behind Zion.
wow....personally, I would stay away from him....I feel like everything he does well, he could do just as well if he was 6'5"...like I do not really see the benefit in his height. It is cool to see him so tall and be able to dribble down the court and pull up.....but couldn't he get the same shots if he was much shorter? He seems to be a mess on defense to me.....his only move/benefit he offers on defense is standing near the rim with his hands up, because every time I see him try to defend a person, it does not go well.
I mean, I can guard the 6'5 guy with a 6'7 guy and leave my Rudy Gobert type to hang around the paint all game further limiting my 6'5 guy from getting easier shots at the rim.
On Bol's defense, I'd be willing to give him a chance. There are times he looks like Mitchell Robinson out there - dumb, but scary athletic and coordinated - and other times he looks like he's going to trip over his own feet. With young, coltish guys like that - JJJ, Ingram, baby Gobert - I give them a little benefit of the doubt that they'll get more comfortable in their bodies as they mature even if they don't bulk up a ton. I mean, his defensive motor doesn't seem any worse than Ayton's at Arizona while posting a pretty insane 15% stocks rate, and I value Bol's offense more than I do Ayton's.
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman? _________________ Under New Management
Boston has 4 1st Round picks this year? No way do they make 4 selections in the 1st round and keep them.
Not a great draft for overseas guys, either. Hard to draft n' stash like they did in 2016.
How about talent of the draft though?
All four are bunched around 20th. Could a GM see those picks as a foundation for a rebuild?
Ainge could add a player ( Hayward / $30m?) or two to a trade and change a couple franchises if he chooses.
Hayward will need to improve his numbers before teams are going to be eager to take that contract. With so many others on the roster wanting to eat, it might take a while.
Bol is a polarizing prospect. I’m on the negative pole.. Too high hip’d + skinny +slow to do what he likes at the next level. He likes to drive a bit, an NBA big is stifling that with a nudge, his shot is also slow despite the nice touch
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman?
He would be in discussion for #1 in this draft also in my opinion....just feel like he is more of a sure thing than anyone in this draft.
Same for me. I'd probably have Zion ahead of him, but I would be more comfortable with Ayton at #2 than Reddish, Little, or even Barrett to this point.
And since I value Bol's game as much if not more than I value Ayton's game - though he has a scarier floor - I'm starting to feel pretty good about also nudging Bol ahead of Barrett, Little, and Reddish. Or we could go back to Markkanen in 2017 - he went #7 in what at the time looked like a better, deeper draft (it still may be) and he didn't bring Bol's rim protection or even his okay-ish rebounding. Obviously Markkanen's shot is prettier and quicker, but if Bol ends up a 55/40-45/80 shooter at the end of the year (he's currently at 56/55/75) with superior defensive #s, why shouldn't he be valued as much or more than Markkanen? _________________ Under New Management
Bol is a polarizing prospect. I’m on the negative pole.. Too high hip’d + skinny +slow to do what he likes at the next level. He likes to drive a bit, an NBA big is stifling that with a nudge, his shot is also slow despite the nice touch
He can't dribble into a 25-foot three at the NBA level at 7'2? _________________ Under New Management
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman?
He would be in discussion for #1 in this draft also in my opinion....just feel like he is more of a sure thing than anyone in this draft.
Same for me. I'd probably have Zion ahead of him, but I would be more comfortable with Ayton at #2 than Reddish, Little, or even Barrett to this point.
And since I value Bol's game as much if not more than I value Ayton's game - though he has a scarier floor - I'm starting to feel pretty good about also nudging Bol ahead of Barrett, Little, and Reddish. Or we could go back to Markkanen in 2017 - he went #7 in what at the time looked like a better, deeper draft (it still may be) and he didn't bring Bol's rim protection or even his okay-ish rebounding. Obviously Markkanen's shot is prettier and quicker, but if Bol ends up a 55/40-45/80 shooter at the end of the year (he's currently at 56/55/75) with superior defensive #s, why shouldn't he be valued as much or more than Markkanen?
How far down would Doncic be if he was in this draft?
Bol is a polarizing prospect. I’m on the negative pole.. Too high hip’d + skinny +slow to do what he likes at the next level. He likes to drive a bit, an NBA big is stifling that with a nudge, his shot is also slow despite the nice touch
He can't dribble into a 25-foot three at the NBA level at 7'2?
His shot is slow and w a bit of a low pocket, and I doubt he’ll get seperation to shoot that 3. And I don’t think he can play the 5 - Porzingis and AD didn’t like playing the 5. Bol is way way thinner w worse base..
Boston has 4 1st Round picks this year? No way do they make 4 selections in the 1st round and keep them.
Not a great draft for overseas guys, either. Hard to draft n' stash like they did in 2016.
How about talent of the draft though?
All four are bunched around 20th. Could a GM see those picks as a foundation for a rebuild?
Ainge could add a player ( Hayward / $30m?) or two to a trade and change a couple franchises if he chooses.
Hayward will need to improve his numbers before teams are going to be eager to take that contract. With so many others on the roster wanting to eat, it might take a while.
I mentioned Hayward because he seems to be the odd man out at the moment. But could be any of the Celtic players to create some salary for a marquee player.
My question is more concerning the quality of the talent in this draft likely to be available with those four picks. Could a GM see them as an opportunity to rebuild and trade away a disgruntled or soon to hit free agency AllStar. Even as a chance to revamp an aging roster stuck in a revolving door of just making the playoffs but never serious contenders.
Or on the other hand, a weak draft that four picks in the 20s has very little value? Need draft guru help here.
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman?
He would be in discussion for #1 in this draft also in my opinion....just feel like he is more of a sure thing than anyone in this draft.
Same for me. I'd probably have Zion ahead of him, but I would be more comfortable with Ayton at #2 than Reddish, Little, or even Barrett to this point.
And since I value Bol's game as much if not more than I value Ayton's game - though he has a scarier floor - I'm starting to feel pretty good about also nudging Bol ahead of Barrett, Little, and Reddish. Or we could go back to Markkanen in 2017 - he went #7 in what at the time looked like a better, deeper draft (it still may be) and he didn't bring Bol's rim protection or even his okay-ish rebounding. Obviously Markkanen's shot is prettier and quicker, but if Bol ends up a 55/40-45/80 shooter at the end of the year (he's currently at 56/55/75) with superior defensive #s, why shouldn't he be valued as much or more than Markkanen?
How far down would Doncic be if he was in this draft?
I'd have him at #1 slightly ahead of Zion. If Zion shows more perimeter shooting as the year goes on, he would edge ahead of Luka. I would've rated Luka just ahead of Simmons, KAT, and Embiid, as well.
ETA - I'm thinking over the past few drafts I would put my top picks in the following order (including Zion):
AD>>Luka>Embiid>KAT>Simmons>Zion>JJJ>Fultz>Zo>Wiggins>Young _________________ Under New Management
Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Bol is a polarizing prospect. I’m on the negative pole.. Too high hip’d + skinny +slow to do what he likes at the next level. He likes to drive a bit, an NBA big is stifling that with a nudge, his shot is also slow despite the nice touch
He can't dribble into a 25-foot three at the NBA level at 7'2?
His shot is slow and w a bit of a low pocket, and I doubt he’ll get seperation to shoot that 3. And I don’t think he can play the 5 - Porzingis and AD didn’t like playing the 5. Bol is way way thinner w worse base..
He can't raise his release point? And if someone is coming out to pick him up at 25 feet, you don't think he can get around that guy with his stride length?
Defense remains the issue, but it seems like the two biggest problems with his frame will be post defense and boxing out. I don't really care about the former, but the latter does concern me and will be something I monitor throughout the season.
Lastly, this is a tepid, shallow, uninspiring draft outside of Zion. Bol has a low floor, but compared to a wing who can't pass worth (bleep) in Little, an unrepentant chucker with a shaky three and lazy defense in Barrett, or a talented wallflower in Reddish, I don't know that the balance of Bol's strengths and weaknesses don't make him the more worthwhile gamble at the top of the draft (non-Zion edition). _________________ Under New Management
Boston has 4 1st Round picks this year? No way do they make 4 selections in the 1st round and keep them.
Not a great draft for overseas guys, either. Hard to draft n' stash like they did in 2016.
They won't keep them all, especially with Kings, Grizzlies and Clippers doing better than expected. If they can't pack a 2-for-1 to climb in the draft board, they better flip it for a pick next year. _________________ ....
Boston has 4 1st Round picks this year? No way do they make 4 selections in the 1st round and keep them.
Not a great draft for overseas guys, either. Hard to draft n' stash like they did in 2016.
They won't keep them all, especially with Kings, Grizzlies and Clippers doing better than expected. If they can't pack a 2-for-1 to climb in the draft board, they better flip it for a pick next year.
Agreed. It'll be interesting to see what Rozier and 1-2 of those picks can bring back. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:53 am Post subject:
Bard207 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman?
He would be in discussion for #1 in this draft also in my opinion....just feel like he is more of a sure thing than anyone in this draft.
Same for me. I'd probably have Zion ahead of him, but I would be more comfortable with Ayton at #2 than Reddish, Little, or even Barrett to this point.
And since I value Bol's game as much if not more than I value Ayton's game - though he has a scarier floor - I'm starting to feel pretty good about also nudging Bol ahead of Barrett, Little, and Reddish. Or we could go back to Markkanen in 2017 - he went #7 in what at the time looked like a better, deeper draft (it still may be) and he didn't bring Bol's rim protection or even his okay-ish rebounding. Obviously Markkanen's shot is prettier and quicker, but if Bol ends up a 55/40-45/80 shooter at the end of the year (he's currently at 56/55/75) with superior defensive #s, why shouldn't he be valued as much or more than Markkanen?
How far down would Doncic be if he was in this draft?
I know it is kind of a cop out....but like Ayton, he is up there in the discussion for the #1-#3 pick in my opinion. I like Zion a lot, but I am definitely not as confident in his ceiling as most in this thread.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject:
Sentient Meat wrote:
How would you guys describe the pros and cons comparing Bol Bol to Porzingis?
I wouldn't really. Bol Bol's skills are all or nothing, like Lonzo in PnR vs. Lonzo's transition passing.
The difference for me is, Bol Bol doesn't have Porzingis's twitch. Just a hyper smooth athlete that might trip over his own feet. Terrible man-defender (who does he actually defend next level?) but could be a stud help defender, push the break, and make transition 3s. What do you do with that?
Then you come across the potential health issues with players of that height/length combination and don't seem to have great lower base for their frames... _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject:
Bard207 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Where would you rank Ayton in this class if he could be magically transported back to college this season as a 19 year old freshman?
He would be in discussion for #1 in this draft also in my opinion....just feel like he is more of a sure thing than anyone in this draft.
Same for me. I'd probably have Zion ahead of him, but I would be more comfortable with Ayton at #2 than Reddish, Little, or even Barrett to this point.
And since I value Bol's game as much if not more than I value Ayton's game - though he has a scarier floor - I'm starting to feel pretty good about also nudging Bol ahead of Barrett, Little, and Reddish. Or we could go back to Markkanen in 2017 - he went #7 in what at the time looked like a better, deeper draft (it still may be) and he didn't bring Bol's rim protection or even his okay-ish rebounding. Obviously Markkanen's shot is prettier and quicker, but if Bol ends up a 55/40-45/80 shooter at the end of the year (he's currently at 56/55/75) with superior defensive #s, why shouldn't he be valued as much or more than Markkanen?
How far down would Doncic be if he was in this draft?
He'd still be #1 IMHO. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
How would you guys describe the pros and cons comparing Bol Bol to Porzingis?
I wouldn't really. Bol Bol's skills are all or nothing, like Lonzo in PnR vs. Lonzo's transition passing.
The difference for me is, Bol Bol doesn't have Porzingis's twitch. Just a hyper smooth athlete that might trip over his own feet. Terrible man-defender (who does he actually defend next level?) but could be a stud help defender, push the break, and make transition 3s. What do you do with that?
Then you come across the potential health issues with players of that height/length combination and don't seem to have great lower base for their frames...
Bol is the superior passer and ball-handler by age, though as KiROE notes above, his high hips and thin frame could mean his dribble drive game gets neutralized by stronger players who can bump him off his spot. _________________ Under New Management
How would you guys describe the pros and cons comparing Bol Bol to Porzingis?
I wouldn't really. Bol Bol's skills are all or nothing, like Lonzo in PnR vs. Lonzo's transition passing.
The difference for me is, Bol Bol doesn't have Porzingis's twitch. Just a hyper smooth athlete that might trip over his own feet. Terrible man-defender (who does he actually defend next level?) but could be a stud help defender, push the break, and make transition 3s. What do you do with that?
Then you come across the potential health issues with players of that height/length combination and don't seem to have great lower base for their frames...
So you are saying he's like a Great Dane or Ralph Sampson?
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