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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: Winslow or Johnson? |
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Which one do you like more, and why?
I'm curious what the argument is for Winslow over Johnson.....
Offensively, i think Johnson has the edge; better off the dribble/shot creator.
Defensively - who's better?? I haven't seen too much of them defensively. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Winslow.
Better passer/playmaker/court vision
Better fundamental defense
Better 3 point shot.
Stanley Johnson
Better build.
Winslow was the #2 doberman of the FIBA team behind Marcus Smart. Smart added pressure. Winslow cut all of the passing lanes. He's also a stellar man-defender.
Neither player is a great shot creator or ball-handler. I think it's a weak crop for wing players.
Both are very good athletes, but not elite. We have been spoiled by stellar, elite wings for decades. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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It's close, Winslow was my #2 prospect and Johnson 3rd. It changes from week to week with these two. Johnson has a alpha mentality, I think he'll avg more in the league and someone you can run your offense through. Winslow let's the game come to him, but can be aggressive when he has too. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have a lot of doubts about Johnson's game. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Is Winslow really 6'6''? He looks shorter than advertised. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Winslow.
Better passer/playmaker/court vision
Better fundamental defense
Better 3 point shot.
Stanley Johnson
Better build.
Winslow was the #2 doberman of the FIBA team behind Marcus Smart. Smart added pressure. Winslow cut all of the passing lanes. He's also a stellar man-defender.
Neither player is a great shot creator or ball-handler. I think it's a weak crop for wing players.
Both are very good athletes, but not elite. We have been spoiled by stellar, elite wings for decades. |
ya, i had a feeling that Winslow was the better defender from watching their Draft Express Scouting Vids. From other highlights tho, Johnson looks good off the dribble. Looks to have good ball handling skills. I think he has a lot of potential off the dribble/shot creating. Of course, we'll see how that translates to the college level ; I'm always weary of how much off the dribble skills translate after highschool.
Johnson also has better height and length. Winslow is barely 6'6 without that fro.
I have Johnson ahead of Winslow. I'll be watching their D, and off the dribble game closely tho.
Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | Is Winslow really 6'6''? He looks shorter than advertised. |
Both Winslow and Johnson look a good inch shorter than what they're listed as, to me. They both have big fros. Winslow is listed 6'7 and probly barely 6'6. Johnson listed 6'8 barely 6'7 |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree about Stanley Johnson's ball-handling ability.
Pay attention to it. It's no different from Julius Randle.
Straight line drive
Or
Change of direction, then straight line drive.
He can't do it on the fly. He can't do it twice on the drive. This is how he gets charge calls. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | I disagree about Stanley Johnson's ball-handling ability.
Pay attention to it. It's no different from Julius Randle.
Straight line drive
Or
Change of direction, then straight line drive.
He can't do it on the fly. He can't do it twice on the drive. This is how he gets charge calls. |
ah, see, I've only seen so many vids of Johnson. In those he used nice dribble moves.. We'll see how it looks in college.. Haven't seen him play yet.
I do pay verrry close attention to dribble moves, and scrutinize them. I remember from his vids that he mostly uses a dominant hand cross over to get to the rim. but he also had some nice stepback moves. a couple REALLY nice step back moves. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I disagree about Stanley Johnson's ball-handling ability.
Pay attention to it. It's no different from Julius Randle.
Straight line drive
Or
Change of direction, then straight line drive.
He can't do it on the fly. He can't do it twice on the drive. This is how he gets charge calls. |
ah, see, I've only seen so many vids of Johnson. In those he used nice dribble moves.. We'll see how it looks in college.. Haven't seen him play yet.
I do pay verrry close attention to dribble moves, and scrutinize them. I remember from his vids that he mostly uses a dominant hand cross over to get to the rim. but he also had some nice stepback moves. a couple REALLY nice step back moves. |
While I appreciate the stepback moves, that leads me to my next point, his shot form.
Low release point. Low trajectory. Flat. Streaky, inconsistent shooter. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I disagree about Stanley Johnson's ball-handling ability.
Pay attention to it. It's no different from Julius Randle.
Straight line drive
Or
Change of direction, then straight line drive.
He can't do it on the fly. He can't do it twice on the drive. This is how he gets charge calls. |
ah, see, I've only seen so many vids of Johnson. In those he used nice dribble moves.. We'll see how it looks in college.. Haven't seen him play yet.
I do pay verrry close attention to dribble moves, and scrutinize them. I remember from his vids that he mostly uses a dominant hand cross over to get to the rim. but he also had some nice stepback moves. a couple REALLY nice step back moves. |
While I appreciate the stepback moves, that leads me to my next point, his shot form.
Low release point. Low trajectory. Flat. Streaky, inconsistent shooter. |
ya his form needs some tweaking. He won't be consistent with that form; comes out too flat yup |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Stanley can create off the dribble a lot more then Winslow but Winslow is better off the ball. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Dave20 wrote: | Stanley can create off the dribble a lot more then Winslow but Winslow is better off the ball. |
Stanley will bump a defender and use an occasional spin move.
It's weird really. I don't see Stanley as a dynamically skilled player. People got on Wiggins last year for lacking ball-skills. Stanley has less than that.
Nor does he jump as high or have the same hands or wingspan.
What he does have is an incredible physique and motor.
But, I don't see any "power wings" doing well in the NBA. The best case was Gerald Wallace, but his first step was devastating and he exploded above the rim, nevermind his propensity to grab offensive rebounds.
Maybe that's a best case scenario, but even then, I still don't see it.
What's worse, is knowing that Winslow doesn't have as much perceived upside as Stanley. Stanley is absolutely raw and yet, filling up a stat sheet. Winslow can pass a bit, spot up behind the arc, and be a doberman. Two-way role player because of his lack of ball-skill. He too has a great motor, just not on the same level as Stanley.
Frankly, if I had a top 3 pick, I'd stay away from both. This is a bigman draft first. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17064
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah Winslow is nice prospect with our Houston pick if he falls that low.
Great 3&D prospect who'd fit nicely with Randle. If we get a top 5 we definitely need to go for a C. |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Yeah Winslow is nice prospect with our Houston pick if he falls that low.
Great 3&D prospect who'd fit nicely with Randle. If we get a top 5 we definitely need to go for a C. |
No way winslow lasts until the Houston pick unless Houston somehow winds up in the lottery. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17064
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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44TheLogo wrote: | 22 wrote: | Yeah Winslow is nice prospect with our Houston pick if he falls that low.
Great 3&D prospect who'd fit nicely with Randle. If we get a top 5 we definitely need to go for a C. |
No way winslow lasts until the Houston pick unless Houston somehow winds up in the lottery. |
Sorry, I was having a pipe moment lol |
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Fan0Bynum17 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Winslow. If Winslow develops his handle more, you pretty much have an Iguodala. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Winslow game reminds me of Trevor Ariza. Tough Defense, Plays the passing lane, great finisher. He just needs to further develop that outside shot. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | Winslow game reminds me of Trevor Ariza. Tough Defense, Plays the passing lane, great finisher. He just needs to further develop that outside shot. |
Ariza wasn't even that good until his what, 4th year in the league? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Winslow game reminds me of Trevor Ariza. Tough Defense, Plays the passing lane, great finisher. He just needs to further develop that outside shot. |
Ariza wasn't even that good until his what, 4th year in the league? |
Elaborating, the year Trevor Ariza was on the Lakers. |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Winslow game reminds me of Trevor Ariza. Tough Defense, Plays the passing lane, great finisher. He just needs to further develop that outside shot. |
Ariza wasn't even that good until his what, 4th year in the league? |
Elaborating, the year Trevor Ariza was on the Lakers. |
Winslow is a far more physical player than Ariza, but I don't think he will ever become as good a spot up 3 pt shooter as Ariza. I don't really see the comp. Winslow reminds me of Caron Butler. Not much lateral shake, but prototypical size for the 2/3, can develop into an average shooter, good physical defender, explosive in straight lines and vertically. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think of Winslow and Johnson as power wings that can play 3/2.
Winslow is exactly the kind of player that works well with a ball-dominant PG. His motor isn't reliant on offensive touches, and he thrives on defense.
Stanley has a great motor as well, but he thrives on transition play first before the defense. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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If we don't get one of the top 3 (mudiay, Okafor, towns) I want Stanley Johnson. Let him and randle play bully ball for the next 10+ years |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't draft Mudiay. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17064
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | I wouldn't draft Mudiay. |
Same |
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