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jbjb Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2001 Posts: 5401
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: report from Memphis on Jerry West and the draft |
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"The Grizzlies have used or traded five first-round draft picks in West's four years in Memphis, Nos. 4, 13, 13, 19 and 27 overall. They've made or acquired another five second-round picks. They don't have a single starter to show for it. They have Mike Miller, obtained in a trade for Drew Gooden. They have another three players (Jones, Hakim Warrick and Lawrence Roberts) who combined to average 25 minutes a game last year. That's simply not good enough. In an otherwise sterling run in Memphis, it's the one area where West has -- might as well be honest about it -- flopped." Memphis Commercial Appeal
Not much better (if at all) than Mitch actually |
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KwamesMyGuy Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 3630
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: report from Memphis on Jerry West and the draft |
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jbjb wrote: | "The Grizzlies have used or traded five first-round draft picks in West's four years in Memphis, Nos. 4, 13, 13, 19 and 27 overall. They've made or acquired another five second-round picks. They don't have a single starter to show for it. They have Mike Miller, obtained in a trade for Drew Gooden. They have another three players (Jones, Hakim Warrick and Lawrence Roberts) who combined to average 25 minutes a game last year. That's simply not good enough. In an otherwise sterling run in Memphis, it's the one area where West has -- might as well be honest about it -- flopped." Memphis Commercial Appeal
Not much better (if at all) than Mitch actually |
Prepare to get bashed you know how every gm not named Mitch is overrated here _________________ "Formerly known as The_Butler_Did_It"
Los Angeles Lakers |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well facts are facts, and its a what have u dont for me lately world. |
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ValisJason Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 Posts: 1418 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Tempting to speculate about how the way the draft has changed in the last ten years has had a negative effect on West and Kupchak. Influx of foreigners and high school kids, etc. Of course, that would seem to be idiotic because West drafted Vlade before anyone and Kobe. But, it definitely seems like neither West nor Kupchak (his trained protege) have drafted very well lately. Anyway, wouldnt want to criticize either too heavily as drafting is a DIFFICULT business. But, the results have not been great recently. Not horrible either. |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Wisdom dictates the business end cannot be ignored. If you look at the money, you will find Eddie Jones has a valuable ending contract. The other bottom line to observe is that the Grizzlies have been in the Playoffs for the second time in their history, both under Jerry West. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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KwamesMyGuy Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 3630
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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angel wrote: | Wisdom dictates the business end cannot be ignored. If you look at the money, you will find Eddie Jones has a valuable ending contract. The other bottom line to observe is that the Grizzlies have been in the Playoffs for the second time in their history, both under Jerry West. |
No need to bring up Eddies contract if it hasn't been traded for talent yet. As far as playoffs goes it was years before they made the playoffs under west. It was one year before the Lakers made the playoffs under Mitch. _________________ "Formerly known as The_Butler_Did_It"
Los Angeles Lakers |
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Great One Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3174 Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think Warrick was a good pick. _________________ "Nobody hates the good ones. They hate the great ones." - KB |
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The Mike Star Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1126
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think West has done a decent job, considering it is a small market team not looking to spend the big bucks, and this year they were in the middle of the pack. Have they haven't won a playoff game yet, but coaches, GMs and owners can't play the games for them. At some point in time it does become the player's job to perfrom. I know West is in charge of the talent but if you look. Afgter getting swept in the 2005 playoff West of retained 7 or 8 players for 2006. They won 4 more games and got swept again. But even with that, the fact remains the West made some changes to improve the team. This year I expect to see more of the same, hewill make more changes, and the team will improve.
I remember in these very boards before the season began people saying that the Griz wouldn't even make the playoff.
The advantages West had while being the GM of the Lakers was Location, history, and an owner more willing to spend money. In Memphis he hasn't had any of those.
I think Warrick was a solid pick, and am curious to see what he does this off season. _________________ "Kobe Bryant is an absolute nightmare. You can hold your breath, send for help, sacrifice a chicken, it won't matter. Kobe Bryant is coming for you. He's got the ball and he's going to score...some way, some how."
Dancing Barry |
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Money$hot! Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002 Posts: 5911
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yeap, Eddie Jones' contract + his veteran play were and will be a plus for Memphis. He also unloaded J.Will to the Heat and may have gone deeper if Stoudamire (who had a sterling season) didnt get hurt. Warrick will be a factor this season. That writer is way underestimating what the Grizz can do this off season. They'll be in the mix in '07. |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Pau is only 25, and got an edge too him this year. Great depth. Missing a go too guard, preferably another all star. |
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shnjb Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2002 Posts: 13320
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Come to think of it, the Logo gave the Heat their starting point, didn't he?
Bad... Bad... |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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shnjb wrote: | Come to think of it, the Logo gave the Heat their starting point, didn't he?
Bad... Bad... |
and their defensive stopper and the ability too go out an sign walker....no no no, that was ainge assisting another team win a championship...dohh.
Ainge = 2 championships Celtics = 0 |
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shnjb Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2002 Posts: 13320
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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lakers0505 wrote: | shnjb wrote: | Come to think of it, the Logo gave the Heat their starting point, didn't he?
Bad... Bad... |
and their defensive stopper and the ability too go out an sign walker....no no no, that was ainge assisting another team win a championship...dohh.
Ainge = 2 championships Celtics = 0 |
I'm not so sure that Posey is really a "defensive stopper" but what did West get for those guys?
Two playoffs are nice but I think that is mostly because they got a franchise level player in Pau Gasol.
Jerry West really hasn't drafted or traded well at all.
Againg happens to the best of us I supose. |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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shnjb wrote: | lakers0505 wrote: | shnjb wrote: | Come to think of it, the Logo gave the Heat their starting point, didn't he?
Bad... Bad... |
and their defensive stopper and the ability too go out an sign walker....no no no, that was ainge assisting another team win a championship...dohh.
Ainge = 2 championships Celtics = 0 |
I'm not so sure that Posey is really a "defensive stopper" but what did West get for those guys?
Two playoffs are nice but I think that is mostly because they got a franchise level player in Pau Gasol.
Jerry West really hasn't drafted or traded well at all.
Againg happens to the best of us I supose. |
I got another thought while typing that response, ainge and his crap popped into my head.
Why does mitch take so much crap, when danny ainge is responsible for 2/3 championships. I mean he facilatated the sheed too detroit deal, and assisted in the antoni walker trade too miami as well. I my book danny ainge is on the hit list up their with fatty and the bunch. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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The Mike wrote: | I think West has done a decent job, considering it is a small market team not looking to spend the big bucks, and this year they were in the middle of the pack. Have they haven't won a playoff game yet, but coaches, GMs and owners can't play the games for them. At some point in time it does become the player's job to perfrom. I know West is in charge of the talent but if you look. Afgter getting swept in the 2005 playoff West of retained 7 or 8 players for 2006. They won 4 more games and got swept again. But even with that, the fact remains the West made some changes to improve the team. This year I expect to see more of the same, hewill make more changes, and the team will improve.
I remember in these very boards before the season began people saying that the Griz wouldn't even make the playoff.
The advantages West had while being the GM of the Lakers was Location, history, and an owner more willing to spend money. In Memphis he hasn't had any of those.
I think Warrick was a solid pick, and am curious to see what he does this off season. |
But the Griz are in salary cap hell, with only a couple of playoff losses to show for it. At least the Lakers have 3 titles to show for their salary cap problems. West hasn't shown he can manipulate the salary cap since the last two restrictive CBAs have been in effect. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LaLakers999 Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1103
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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the thing is...... J West may not be no better at scouting then Kupchack...but Jwest knows how to run and manage a team.... if West was here Kobe and Shaq would still exist... simple as that |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Shaq's problems were purely financial. He bled West dry when he signed as a FA, and would have balked with getting anything less than a max extension. Buss offered two years, $45 mil, but it wasn't enough. We all saw it took 5 years, $20 mil for Miami to make him happy. There was nothing West could have done to convince Buss to pay Shaq that kind of money. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LaLakers999 Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1103
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | There was nothing West could have done to convince Buss to pay Shaq that kind of money. |
since when did buss and donald sterling switch brains? West had the ability to communicate effectively with super egos and his rich boss... If west wanted something he knew how to get it out of Buss.... remember 99 when shaq and kobe got into that shoving match during practice? he knocked sense into both of those stars and told to get their act together... after that the rest was history... west quit in 01, kupchack hired in 02, no trades, barely won WCF, won title and fell apart 2 years later |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Remember 1979 when West tried to convince Buss not to have Magic drafted #1? Buss didn't listen to him then, and he wouldn't be convinced to pay an over the hill big man another $100 million. And it is only my opinion, but I think the pursuit and babysitting West had to do with Shaq was the major cause of his hyper tension and desire to leave the Lakers. Two years was all Buss was willing to invest in Shaq at that point. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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EHL_2 Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2006 Posts: 5330
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Warrick is better than any pick Kupchak has made in his entire career (2000-2006). Easy thread. |
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LaLakers999 Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1103
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Remember 1979 when West tried to convince Buss not to have Magic drafted #1? Buss didn't listen to him then, and he wouldn't be convinced to pay an over the hill big man another $100 million. And it is only my opinion, but I think the pursuit and babysitting West had to do with Shaq was the major cause of his hyper tension and desire to leave the Lakers. Two years was all Buss was willing to invest in Shaq at that point. |
wow i didnt even know that West didnt want magic at #1? slightly changes my persepective about the guy.....however... i would also think west would have brought shnaq's offer to reasonable terms that buss would agree on and convinced both kobe and the shnaq to play together. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144583 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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If West could have convinced Shaq to take Buss' offer, he would have stayed. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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EHL_2 Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2006 Posts: 5330
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Is the "West didn't want Magic" bit actually confirmed? Is that from some book because I haven't ever read that anywhere on the Internet or papers.
Then again, West has a lot more to show off; like Shaq in FA (one of the biggest FA pickups ever), Kobe for Vlade (lopsided^10), James Worthy for nothing (almost litterally nothing), NVE/Divac/Campbell late in draft, Eddie Jones in the lotto (jackpot), Horry, and etc. etc. |
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LaLakers999 Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1103
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | If West could have convinced Shaq to take Buss' offer, he would have stayed. |
yes i agree |
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LaLakers999 Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1103
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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EHL_2 wrote: | Is the "West didn't want Magic" bit actually confirmed? Is that from some book because I haven't ever read that anywhere on the Internet or papers.
Then again, West has a lot more to show off; like Shaq in FA (one of the biggest FA pickups ever), Kobe for Vlade (lopsided^10), James Worthy for nothing (almost litterally nothing), NVE/Divac/Campbell late in draft, Eddie Jones in the lotto (jackpot), Horry, and etc. etc. |
actually bro... Worthy was won in a coin toss between sterling and buss |
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