View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Tony Almeida Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 12072
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THE_SHOES wrote: |
That promise of durability that you're giving Marion could vanish within a single play... It's not a promise. Odom could go the whole season without an injury just as easily as Marion could go down in a heap.. These things have no sure way of being guaranteed... |
This is true.
Which is why it's a matter of odds, not guarantees one way or the other. You're right, one play can change everything and Marion could miss the entire season, you never know. Lamar could play the entire season, who knows.
But history and track record have shown us Lamar misses games, not the case with Marion.
New season begins, both guys could go down to injury, both could play the entire season. Yet Marion has faced similar risks of getting injured (as has any NBA player), and has came out fine.
Who is the safer bet to play the entire season? Personally, that's an easy question for me to answer.
No guarantee, no promise, just a safer choice. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hi_ma wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: | if LO is feeling good |
|
I have another if for you, since you seem to enjoy those so much...
If LO is healthy, and Fish and Bynum can at least contribute enough so that LO has nothing more to do than punish Shawn...
You better pray for Marion... That could get ugly.... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This trade is not going to happen with Training Camp already underway. Marion does not know the Triangle and he would need an entire training camp just to get his feet wet.
Plus, the Suns know they have a good player in Shawn, he can't opt out, he is going to stay a sun unless something really strange happens.
As to who is better- if Marion could play the SF on the Lakers I would say that he would be a better player. Great defender, great motor, very athletic.
But LO is our starting PF and aside from Ronny who is foul prone and Kwame who is mistake prone we don't have any other capable PF's on this team.
So that means if we make this deal, LO for Marion, he is going to have to play PF for us. He is going to get killed by most PF's in the league when he has to play half court D. Boozer would feast on him just like Lamar did in the playoffs last season. Duncan? KG? Marion would just get pushed around and shot over. He is just to small and short to be an efective PF defender for long periods of time.
Therefore, I don't think it is a good fit.
I would rather try and get Ron Ron from Sac town- he has played in the triangle before and we could get him without loosing LO. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tony Almeida wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: |
That promise of durability that you're giving Marion could vanish within a single play... It's not a promise. Odom could go the whole season without an injury just as easily as Marion could go down in a heap.. These things have no sure way of being guaranteed... |
This is true.
Which is why it's a matter of odds, not guarantees one way or the other. You're right, one play can change everything and Marion could miss the entire season, you never know. Lamar could play the entire season, who knows.
But history and track record have shown us Lamar misses games, not the case with Marion.
New season begins, both guys could go down to injury, both could play the entire season. Yet Marion has faced similar risks of getting injured (as has any NBA player), and has came out fine.
Who is the safer bet to play the entire season? Personally, that's an easy question for me to answer.
No guarantee, no promise, just a safer choice. |
Well, apparently not enough to make the Lakers move.... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hi_ma Star Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 7952 Location: watching Kobe /Pau duo.
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THE_SHOES wrote: | hi_ma wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: | if LO is feeling good |
|
I have another if for you, since you seem to enjoy those so much...
If LO is healthy, and Fish and Bynum can at least contribute enough so that LO has nothing more to do than punish Shawn...
You better pray for Marion... That could get ugly.... |
Basketball 101. Team game. LO has had no effect on us beating the suns.
Numbers or not. the marions 4 the LO's 1 in 07 playoffs _________________
The lakers will get prince. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tony Almeida Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 12072
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THE_SHOES wrote: | Tony Almeida wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: |
That promise of durability that you're giving Marion could vanish within a single play... It's not a promise. Odom could go the whole season without an injury just as easily as Marion could go down in a heap.. These things have no sure way of being guaranteed... |
This is true.
Which is why it's a matter of odds, not guarantees one way or the other. You're right, one play can change everything and Marion could miss the entire season, you never know. Lamar could play the entire season, who knows.
But history and track record have shown us Lamar misses games, not the case with Marion.
New season begins, both guys could go down to injury, both could play the entire season. Yet Marion has faced similar risks of getting injured (as has any NBA player), and has came out fine.
Who is the safer bet to play the entire season? Personally, that's an easy question for me to answer.
No guarantee, no promise, just a safer choice. |
Well, apparently not enough to make the Lakers move.... |
The trade might not have happened for a variety of reasons, depends on who and what you want to believe. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So, Shoes... about my bet? Or are you just going to ignore it? _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11484
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THE_SHOES wrote: | Next month the diss'n of this team, and the members of it, are going to make this thread seem even more ridiculous than it is now....
Count on it... |
[/broken record] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11484
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
re4ee wrote: | Jeffs wrote: | re4ee wrote: | Round and Round it goes, sombody wake me when any member here changes their mind about anything...trade Laker A for journeyman B Trade young Laker + expiring K for geriatric PG Just waive Laker C, he sucks Phil's lost it, Mitch never had it, and Dr. Buss is an alcholic, senile, skirtchaser
:roll: |
Marion is a journeyman? Kidd is a geriatric PG? | Generically speaking, I wasn't referring to specifics, just the general mood of "do domething, anything, I don't care if we have to overpay." attitude. |
If you aren't specifically referring to Marion, why are you posting it in this particular thread? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tony Almeida Retired
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 12072
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jeffs wrote: | We'll never see the light that you see, Shoes, trust me.
Tell you what, though... since you're so sure that we'll be eating crow, how about you put your money where you mouth is?
You think the Lakers are top 4 in the West, right? How about we make a bet ($10, $20, or whatever you want), and the loser has to donate it to LG? If the Lakers get the 4th seed, OR 55+ wins, I'll make the donation to LG. If they don't, you make it. I'll tell you what - I'll even cancel the bet for you if they have health as poor as they did last year (though I won't cancel if players miss the games that they average missed per season).
So, what do you say? LG wins either way, and I'd honestly love for you to win the bet, since $20 is a cheap price to pay for the Lakers to be successful. Bet is open to anyone else that may want to take it instead of Shoes as well. |
Ooh, interesting.
Personally I can see the Lakers as high as the 5 seed, but I just don't see them breaking into the top 4. It would have to take nearly every single thing to go our way, and then some. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 8361
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You know what I doubt we try to trade for Marion now, but I still think Odom should play SF. I think we should try to trade for Boris Diaw instead. With Diaw in the triangle our offense would be the best passing team in the NBA and our defense would be improved. Personally I feel its realistic. Im sure the Suns would at least consider Kwame Brown, Brian Cook, and Jordan Farmar for Boris Diaw, Marcus Banks, and filler. Our team then becomes a top 5 team in the West with a very solid bench.
Lakers Lineup-
PG Derek Fisher
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Lamar Odom
PF Boris Diaw
C Andrew Bynum
6 Luke Walton
7 Maurice Evans
8 Chris Mihm
Suns Lineup-
PG Steve Nash
SG Raja Bell
SF Grant Hill
PF Shawn Marion
C Amare Stoudmare
6 LeAndro Barbosa
7 Brian Cook
8 Kwame Brown |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cook and Kwame for Diaw is only slightly less crackish than Kwame and Vlad for Marion. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hi_ma Star Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 7952 Location: watching Kobe /Pau duo.
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
diaw is garbage. Talk about players benefitting from another he is "that guy". _________________
The lakers will get prince. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44185
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still want to trade Lamar Odom, for Shawn Marion? I'm down! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCAR Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 901 Location: Salida, California
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Omg, this thread never dies... it's got to be the Elvis/Tupac thread... _________________ "Rebounding and defense is what's going to help us win." Pjax |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 44185
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
pdawg Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 350
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
marion would definitely be an upgrade over odom. he doesn't need the ball to be effective. i would do the trade in a heartbeat. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How about Kobe and Kwame ($28mil) for
Marion, Raja Bell and Barbosa ($26.7mil)????
Both Bell & Barbosa both play SG, so they won't need them and the Suns wanna dump Marion anyway..
Lakers:
PG Derek Fisher, Critt, Farmer, Coby
SG Raja Bell, LeAndro Barbosa, Sasha, Evans
SF Shawn Marion, Luke Walton
PF Lamar Odom, Ronny, Cook
C Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm
Suns:
PG Steve Nash
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Grant Hill
PF Boris Diaw
C Amare Stoudmare, Kwame
Lakers improve greatly, Suns probably win the title, but it would be another awesome series against them and the Lakers would be able to throw "Kobe Stopper #2" (Bell) at Kobe... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tony Almeida wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: |
That promise of durability that you're giving Marion could vanish within a single play... It's not a promise. Odom could go the whole season without an injury just as easily as Marion could go down in a heap.. These things have no sure way of being guaranteed... |
This is true.
Which is why it's a matter of odds, not guarantees one way or the other. You're right, one play can change everything and Marion could miss the entire season, you never know. Lamar could play the entire season, who knows.
But history and track record have shown us Lamar misses games, not the case with Marion.
New season begins, both guys could go down to injury, both could play the entire season. Yet Marion has faced similar risks of getting injured (as has any NBA player), and has came out fine.
Who is the safer bet to play the entire season? Personally, that's an easy question for me to answer.
No guarantee, no promise, just a safer choice. |
^^marion hasn't faced similar risk. and here's why.
to play Fake PF in the suns offense with their fake defense. means you're not really playing pf. you're just listed at that position. you dont hold off big PF's in the post. you go for steals, and rebound well. you're not likely to end up injured by putting on much more weight then your body can handle. You're not likely to end up with a bunch of nicnack injuries because you're constantly trying to hold off the tim duncans of the league. that stuff can mess up your back, and knees.
^^thats how the lakers would play marion if he played PF. and he would be subject to more chances of injury due to this.
now if we think sliding marion down to sf and rony at pf is better then LO at SF and Ronny at Pf. i will say no it isn't. Because just like marion is playing No contact PF right now. and would be playing SF for the lakers, so it stays NO contact. LO has been playing Contact PF for us. and would now be able to play NO contact SF. which means the odds of him getting injured is down significantly. now the question is. 100% healthy LO at SF, or a 100% healthy Marion at SF for 82 games and the offs.
Which would you rather have? Me, i would rather have LO. because LO in the playoffs(where we would be with either of them). Can impact a game and i've never seen marion do that. I've seen him rebound well, get steals, block shots, but not impact the game to the point where the opposing coach needs to prepare for him. You saw D'An actually setting up defensive sets to cover LO two seasons ago. thats how dangerous he is come playoff time. when pjax goes THRU him in the post where he should live for the most part. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
postandpivot wrote: | Tony Almeida wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: |
That promise of durability that you're giving Marion could vanish within a single play... It's not a promise. Odom could go the whole season without an injury just as easily as Marion could go down in a heap.. These things have no sure way of being guaranteed... |
This is true.
Which is why it's a matter of odds, not guarantees one way or the other. You're right, one play can change everything and Marion could miss the entire season, you never know. Lamar could play the entire season, who knows.
But history and track record have shown us Lamar misses games, not the case with Marion.
New season begins, both guys could go down to injury, both could play the entire season. Yet Marion has faced similar risks of getting injured (as has any NBA player), and has came out fine.
Who is the safer bet to play the entire season? Personally, that's an easy question for me to answer.
No guarantee, no promise, just a safer choice. |
^^marion hasn't faced similar risk. and here's why.
to play Fake PF in the suns offense with their fake defense. means you're not really playing pf. you're just listed at that position. you dont hold off big PF's in the post. you go for steals, and rebound well. you're not likely to end up injured by putting on much more weight then your body can handle. You're not likely to end up with a bunch of nicnack injuries because you're constantly trying to hold off the tim duncans of the league. that stuff can mess up your back, and knees.
^^thats how the lakers would play marion if he played PF. and he would be subject to more chances of injury due to this.
now if we think sliding marion down to sf and rony at pf is better then LO at SF and Ronny at Pf. i will say no it isn't. Because just like marion is playing No contact PF right now. and would be playing SF for the lakers, so it stays NO contact. LO has been playing Contact PF for us. and would now be able to play NO contact SF. which means the odds of him getting injured is down significantly. now the question is. 100% healthy LO at SF, or a 100% healthy Marion at SF for 82 games and the offs.
Which would you rather have? Me, i would rather have LO. because LO in the playoffs(where we would be with either of them). Can impact a game and i've never seen marion do that. I've seen him rebound well, get steals, block shots, but not impact the game to the point where the opposing coach needs to prepare for him. You saw D'An actually setting up defensive sets to cover LO two seasons ago. thats how dangerous he is come playoff time. when pjax goes THRU him in the post where he should live for the most part. |
Totally agree P&P- Marion would get abused being a 6'7" PF in the half court- I posted the same thing above. We see this the same way.
Now, though throw in the wild card of Ronny taking hold of the staring PF spot. I would make this trade IF Marion could come in and be our starting SF. It still seems like a real long shot, I don't think that the Suns want to move Marion at all unless they are getting really really cheap and don't want to pay his max contract any longer. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1309
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
unleasHell wrote: | How about Kobe and Kwame ($28mil) for
Marion, Raja Bell and Barbosa ($26.7mil)????
Both Bell & Barbosa both play SG, so they won't need them and the Suns wanna dump Marion anyway..
Lakers:
PG Derek Fisher, Critt, Farmer, Coby
SG Raja Bell, LeAndro Barbosa, Sasha, Evans
SF Shawn Marion, Luke Walton
PF Lamar Odom, Ronny, Cook
C Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm
Suns:
PG Steve Nash
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Grant Hill
PF Boris Diaw
C Amare Stoudmare, Kwame
Lakers improve greatly, Suns probably win the title, but it would be another awesome series against them and the Lakers would be able to throw "Kobe Stopper #2" (Bell) at Kobe... |
I'd put Fisher in that deal and move Barbosa to PG. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot wrote: | This trade is not going to happen with Training Camp already underway. Marion does not know the Triangle and he would need an entire training camp just to get his feet wet.
Plus, the Suns know they have a good player in Shawn, he can't opt out, he is going to stay a sun unless something really strange happens.
As to who is better- if Marion could play the SF on the Lakers I would say that he would be a better player. Great defender, great motor, very athletic.
But LO is our starting PF and aside from Ronny who is foul prone and Kwame who is mistake prone we don't have any other capable PF's on this team.
So that means if we make this deal, LO for Marion, he is going to have to play PF for us. He is going to get killed by most PF's in the league when he has to play half court D. Boozer would feast on him just like Lamar did in the playoffs last season. Duncan? KG? Marion would just get pushed around and shot over. He is just to small and short to be an efective PF defender for long periods of time.
Therefore, I don't think it is a good fit.
I would rather try and get Ron Ron from Sac town- he has played in the triangle before and we could get him without loosing LO. | No, he wouldn't have to play power forward for us, he would be our starting small forward! The Lakers are planning on starting Odom at small forward, probably because he lost about 20 pounds of muscle due to him not being able to lifts weights. In my opinion, Odom has no business playing small forward. He is not a good enough shooter for it, and cant keep up with the faster threes on defense. Thats why Odom for Marion would be ideal. The defensive upgrade alone would be a great reason for doing it. Marion's rebounding and slashing skills would make it easier to play a perimeter type power forward like Vlade or Cook, did anybody think of that? Plus, Rony is ready to step up and play atleast 24 minutes per game. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
FerrisVille Star Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 5356
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I want to trade Odom for Marion... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hi_ma Star Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 7952 Location: watching Kobe /Pau duo.
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
gp5 wrote: | I want to trade Odom for Marion... |
we all do _________________
The lakers will get prince. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EHL_2 Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2006 Posts: 5330
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
gng930 wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: | Next month the diss'n of this team, and the members of it, are going to make this thread seem even more ridiculous than it is now....
Count on it... |
[/broken record] |
Worse yet, it's a broken record going into year 4. It's as if he can't quite recall the last 3 years, and that somehow this year is different. Reminds me of Alberto Gonzales. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|