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El Daddy702
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


Fedor has his own sledgehammers, and he has the best transition game in the world.

Mir and Couture aren't on Fedor's level, and neither is Brock. BUT, Brock would have a chance, just because of his power and speed.

i honestly think Fedor would knock him out in one fleury. Brock has never faced a guy with the speed and power that Fedor possesses. and all of Fedor's punches are thrown with pin point accuracy.

Fedor wins, KO.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject:

Hendo's first punch was a top 10 knockout!!

his second...top 5!
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Last edited by Free_Kobe on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject:

Free_Kobe wrote:
Hendo's first punch was top a 10 knockout!!

his second...top 5!


lol he gave him one for the road.

After Hendo won, i could care less what happened the rest of the night.
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I say 50/50 chance somehting happens....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject:

I think Hendo's 2nd punch did far more damage than the first one.

You've got all his weight behind the 2nd punch plus the fact that his head was against the mat, with little give.

Plus, it looked a whole lot cooler. The first one was camera blocked just a bit by the ref.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject:

plus the 2nd punch, hendo went airborne...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject:

lol who was the ref in that match? i think he would've let Hendo get off a 3rd punch, had Hendo not stopped himself
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


What has allowed Fedor to be so dominant aren't his physical attributes. Sure, he hits like a (bleep) truck (ask AA ), but it's his preparation that make him so great. All he needs is one opening and more often than not, the fight is over.

Couture and especially Mir underestimated Lesnar. They didn't have a sound gameplan except that they wanted to go for a submission. Fedor is going to be far more prepared than either of them, and won't let Lesnar take him down at will like he did Mir last night.

Beyond the mental aspect of the game, Fedor also has the power to take Lesner out with one punch if he gets the opening.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject:

El Daddy702 wrote:


Fedor has his own sledgehammers, and he has the best transition game in the world.

Mir and Couture aren't on Fedor's level, and neither is Brock. BUT, Brock would have a chance, just because of his power and speed.

i honestly think Fedor would knock him out in one fleury. Brock has never faced a guy with the speed and power that Fedor possesses. and all of Fedor's punches are thrown with pin point accuracy.

Fedor wins, KO.


I'm aware of how good Fedor is, and his transition game (judo) is among the best in the world [GSP (wrestling) and Machida (karate sweeps/wrestling) definitely have good arguments though]. The problem is I do not see Fedor getting a body clinch and judo throwing Brock to the ground. Brock can just fall on top of Fedor like Hong Man did and be on top of Fedor. There is technique and then there is just physics and Brock will win that matchup.

It's possible that Fedor can flurry punch Brock to a victory because he punches really hard and fast, but he's not a knockout pin point accuracy puncher, otherwise he would have more than 2 KO's in his 31 fight career. He throws every punch with bad intentions (no jabs), but the accuracy is not so great. Chuck Liddell is an accurate puncher.

Jeffs wrote:
What has allowed Fedor to be so dominant aren't his physical attributes. Sure, he hits like a (bleep) truck (ask AA ), but it's his preparation that make him so great. All he needs is one opening and more often than not, the fight is over.

Couture and especially Mir underestimated Lesnar. They didn't have a sound gameplan except that they wanted to go for a submission. Fedor is going to be far more prepared than either of them, and won't let Lesnar take him down at will like he did Mir last night.

Beyond the mental aspect of the game, Fedor also has the power to take Lesner out with one punch if he gets the opening.


I agree that Fedor is the most calm and mentally tough fighter in the world and Voronov comes up with great gameplans for every opponent Fedor faces, but Brock will be their toughest task to date.

The reason why Brock is so dangerous besides the obvious size and strength advantage he has over every heavyweight in the world is that he does not need to advance position on the ground to end the fight. You saw it both times he got Mir on the ground in the fight last night. He can TKO you from the guard because he is so frigging large. Previously I would've ranked Fedor 1st and Tito Ortiz 2nd in fighters that can brutalize opponents from in the guard. They have both been bumped down to 2nd and 3rd by the new king Brock Lesnar.

Fedor's ability to punish opponents from in the guard and maintain top position was his biggest weapon, not his standup or his submissions. And his ability to get every single opponent on the ground was able to set this up. Against Hong Man Choi (another huge guy), Fedor was not able to get top position because every time Fedor attempted to take him down, Hong Man would just fall on top of him. Fortunately, Fedor was able to get an armbar from the bottom because HMC is not a seasoned MMA fighter so his natural instinct was to posture up to throw punches allowing Fedor to capitalize. If you watched the fight last night, you know that Brock did not posture up nor did he even need to. Those short punches he threw in the guard while simultaneously keeping his weight down on Frank Mir did enough damage and eventually won the fight. It would be highly unlikely for Fedor to get an armbar from the bottom on Brock like he did against Mark Coleman (twice) and Hong Man Choi. If Brock gets on top of Fedor (which I believe at some point in a fight between them, he will), it's likely that Brock can end the fight.

So yeah, I'm not so confident as you guys that Fedor would easily win.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


You haven't watched much of Fedor have you? He's fought many guys who had massive size advantage on him, it didn't make a difference. Whether it's a striking match or it goes to the ground, he has the power to knock you out cold or get a submission in various ways. His only loss was a fluke from a cut.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject:

srm90 wrote:
Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


You haven't watched much of Fedor have you? He's fought many guys who had massive size advantage on him, it didn't make a difference. Whether it's a striking match or it goes to the ground, he has the power to knock you out cold or get a submission in various ways. His only loss was a fluke from a cut.


I wouldn't say that. I have many of Fedor's fights on PRIDE dvd's. I have a poster of Fedor hanging on my wall and I met him at the Irvine Spectrum. So yeah, I'm very familiar with his work.

He's my favorite fighter (I'm such a frontrunner ), but I'm just being realistic.

None of those big guys Fedor has faced posed as much of a threat as Brock. Tim Sylvia, HMC, Schilt, Mark Hunt, Zulu (LOL) were mostly just fat and/or super tall guys. Brock is not like that.

The heavyweight division needs to be split in two (HW and Super HW) because 206-265 is way too big of a range. Fedor fighting Brock in terms of size is like Rashad Evans fighting Kenny Florian. It's not fair.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject:

Free_Kobe wrote:
Hendo's first punch was a top 10 knockout!!

his second...top 5!


it definitely ranks up there along with pacman's KO of hatton as one of the best i've seen. the 2nd one was straight out of the video game.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
srm90 wrote:
Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


You haven't watched much of Fedor have you? He's fought many guys who had massive size advantage on him, it didn't make a difference. Whether it's a striking match or it goes to the ground, he has the power to knock you out cold or get a submission in various ways. His only loss was a fluke from a cut.


I wouldn't say that. I have many of Fedor's fights on PRIDE dvd's. I have a poster of Fedor hanging on my wall and I met him at the Irvine Spectrum. So yeah, I'm very familiar with his work.

He's my favorite fighter (I'm such a frontrunner ), but I'm just being realistic.

None of those big guys Fedor has faced posed as much of a threat as Brock. Tim Sylvia, HMC, Schilt, Mark Hunt, Zulu (LOL) were mostly just fat and/or super tall guys. Brock is not like that.

The heavyweight division needs to be split in two (HW and Super HW) because 206-265 is way too big of a range. Fedor fighting Brock in terms of size is like Rashad Evans fighting Kenny Florian. It's not fair.


All I know is once Brock is hit with a blow from Fedor he'll realize this isn't a middle-of-the-road UFC fighter he is facing. Fedor's body shots are by far the most devastating blows in the business. And even if Brock gets Fedor on the ground Fedor has the ground skills to shift the momentum his way.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject:

^true, fedor has one of the heaviest hands since foreman. if he connects, it's lights out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:


I agree that Fedor is the most calm and mentally tough fighter in the world and Voronov comes up with great gameplans for every opponent Fedor faces, but Brock will be their toughest task to date.


I respectably disagree. While Brock is a tough matchup due to his size and strength, I don't think he's that difficult to gameplan for. He has a very limited array of moves he can try, and as long as Fedor can prevent Lesnar from getting good position on top of him (like he did in round 1 against Mir), there isn't a whole lot Lesnar can do.

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The reason why Brock is so dangerous besides the obvious size and strength advantage he has over every heavyweight in the world is that he does not need to advance position on the ground to end the fight. You saw it both times he got Mir on the ground in the fight last night. He can TKO you from the guard because he is so frigging large. Previously I would've ranked Fedor 1st and Tito Ortiz 2nd in fighters that can brutalize opponents from in the guard. They have both been bumped down to 2nd and 3rd by the new king Brock Lesnar.


Mir's problem in the first round wasn't just that he got taken down, but that he allowed Lesnar to get his arm around his neck and thus get leverage over him. Mir couldn't move his head at all, and obviously couldn't twist out from under Lesnar. Since he couldn't move his head, Lesnar had like 3 minutes worth of clean shots to his face in the first round. I think everyone realized that the fight was over after the beating Mir took there... it was only a question of when.

Then Mir made an even dumber decision in the second round when he lost his balance during a strike and gave Brock another opening to take him down. Bad idea. Fedor won't be making that mistake. In fact, I would think that he would gameplan specifically for that spear takedown.

Quote:
Fedor's ability to punish opponents from in the guard and maintain top position was his biggest weapon, not his standup or his submissions. And his ability to get every single opponent on the ground was able to set this up. Against Hong Man Choi (another huge guy), Fedor was not able to get top position because every time Fedor attempted to take him down, Hong Man would just fall on top of him. Fortunately, Fedor was able to get an armbar from the bottom because HMC is not a seasoned MMA fighter so his natural instinct was to posture up to throw punches allowing Fedor to capitalize. If you watched the fight last night, you know that Brock did not posture up nor did he even need to. Those short punches he threw in the guard while simultaneously keeping his weight down on Frank Mir did enough damage and eventually won the fight. It would be highly unlikely for Fedor to get an armbar from the bottom on Brock like he did against Mark Coleman (twice) and Hong Man Choi. If Brock gets on top of Fedor (which I believe at some point in a fight between them, he will), it's likely that Brock can end the fight.


You're right, but I think Fedor's all-around skills are what make him a nightmare for Brock. He can't simply overpower him like he has some previous opponents, but he has shown in the past that he can use his standup and submission skills when the situation calls for them.

I think Mir could've done a lot more to put himself in better positions. Allowing Brock to control his neck/head was a big mistake, as was being taken down right by the edge of the ring, leaving him very little space to maneuver. Frankly, I just felt like Mir was cocky and didn't come out with a viable strategy in either round. I think that if he had, he would've at least given Brock a run for his money. That isn't an issue I foresee with Fedor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject:

El Daddy702 wrote:
lol who was the ref in that match? i think he would've let Hendo get off a 3rd punch, had Hendo not stopped himself


Hendo didn't stop himself. He admitted after the fight that he gave Bisping the 2nd shot for all the smack talking prior to the fight. He knew Bisping was out after the 1st punch.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
srm90 wrote:
Triumph wrote:
I don't understand how some of you guys can be so confident that Fedor would beat Brock. Some even saying Fedor would dominate.

Do you guys realize that Brock would outweigh Fedor by about 50 lbs?

Brock just manhandled both Couture and Mir like they were his sons. Like Fedor, both of those guys have better skills than Brock, but it doesn't matter. Brock is so much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Fedor could pull out a victory, but at this point the favorite in that fight has to be Brock. I just cannot see how Fedor or any other heavyweight will be able to avoid being put on their back against him. And that's the beginning of the end if Brock gets on top of you.

But I will say that whoever beats Brock convincingly or knocks him out will automatically become my favorite fighter. No scratch that. If someone can somehow F5 Brock Lesnar in the octagon, he will become the most celebrated athlete of all-time.


You haven't watched much of Fedor have you? He's fought many guys who had massive size advantage on him, it didn't make a difference. Whether it's a striking match or it goes to the ground, he has the power to knock you out cold or get a submission in various ways. His only loss was a fluke from a cut.


I wouldn't say that. I have many of Fedor's fights on PRIDE dvd's. I have a poster of Fedor hanging on my wall and I met him at the Irvine Spectrum. So yeah, I'm very familiar with his work.

He's my favorite fighter (I'm such a frontrunner ), but I'm just being realistic.

None of those big guys Fedor has faced posed as much of a threat as Brock. Tim Sylvia, HMC, Schilt, Mark Hunt, Zulu (LOL) were mostly just fat and/or super tall guys. Brock is not like that.

The heavyweight division needs to be split in two (HW and Super HW) because 206-265 is way too big of a range. Fedor fighting Brock in terms of size is like Rashad Evans fighting Kenny Florian. It's not fair.


A cruiserweight division from 205-225 would be fantastic. Guys like Couture would fit there perfectly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
I respectably disagree. While Brock is a tough matchup due to his size and strength, I don't think he's that difficult to gameplan for. He has a very limited array of moves he can try, and as long as Fedor can prevent Lesnar from getting good position on top of him (like he did in round 1 against Mir), there isn't a whole lot Lesnar can do.


Brock does have a limited skillset, but what he does have is very effective. He doesn't need to be a technical striker or a submission wizard. That's what normal sized non-freakish athletes need to do to beat their competition. Not Brock. His size, strength, and athleticism has nullified any technical superiority his opponents have had on him.

How do you propose that you can stop Lesnar from eventually getting on top of you? He has overwhelmed every single one of his opponents thus far and rather easily. Other than Min Soo Kim, his opponents were all experienced and accomplished MMA fighters.

What would your gameplan be for Fedor to do in a fight with Lesnar?

Quote:
Mir's problem in the first round wasn't just that he got taken down, but that he allowed Lesnar to get his arm around his neck and thus get leverage over him. Mir couldn't move his head at all, and obviously couldn't twist out from under Lesnar. Since he couldn't move his head, Lesnar had like 3 minutes worth of clean shots to his face in the first round. I think everyone realized that the fight was over after the beating Mir took there... it was only a question of when.


That's just it. I don't think Mir "allowed" Brock to do anything. Brock just does whatever he wants to you. At one point Brock even had the infamous "rape choke" (edit: wow that word is censored on here ) on Frank. Frank was completely at Brock's mercy and Frank is a strong dude.

Quote:
Then Mir made an even dumber decision in the second round when he lost his balance during a strike and gave Brock another opening to take him down. Bad idea. Fedor won't be making that mistake. In fact, I would think that he would gameplan specifically for that spear takedown.


Once again, how do you gameplan for a spear takedown? You realize that Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt, and Hong Man Choi were all able to get Fedor on his back, right? And none of those guys are as strong or as mobile as Brock Lesnar.

Regarding Frank's jumping knee, yeah that was a risky maneuver, but I'm not gonna blast Mir for trying that. He connected with it. It's a fight. You can't plan for everything and you can't fight preventative or safe 100% of the time. It's like gambling. You have to bet big if you want to win. That jumping knee looked pretty brutal. I bet that would've put mere mortals out or at least stunned them. But since it was a human gorilla in Brock Lesnar, it didn't even faze him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject:

^well said, Triumph

Lesnar is certainly the LeBron of MMA right now. No one matches up with his seemingly overwheming athletic abilities. And he's a spoiled child.

Turned down big money from pro wrestling. A short gig in the NFL, fought against 2 irrelevent people in MMA, already gets signed by the UFC, goes 1-1, already gets a title shot and now, acting like a (bleep) in post fight interviews. The man has been handed everything on a silver platter and has no class at all.

I would love for Fedor take him to school one day. But it ain't going to be easy and I have my doubts as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Big one tonight. Love both guys but want ngannou.

Plus danas comments on delahoya are amazing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Ded from the first hit. Woken up from the 2nd hit.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
Ded from the first hit. Woken up from the 2nd hit.

He’s terrifying. Bones is definitely in goat convo but no way he should fight Francis. He’s a bigger stronger Tyson with feet
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:33 pm    Post subject:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=72950

Should bump the thread above and let this one die. It's an 11 year old thread...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:33 am    Post subject:

Felt bad for Miocic, but that is the fighting game. You get older and these younger hungry beasts keep getting better.

I thought Stipe tried to wrestle a little less than he should have. You do not go toe to toe with Francis, unless you are a Derrick Lewis.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:08 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Felt bad for Miocic, but that is the fighting game. You get older and these younger hungry beasts keep getting better.

I thought Stipe tried to wrestle a little less than he should have. You do not go toe to toe with Francis, unless you are a Derrick Lewis.


Feel the same way, and i still think Jon will beat Ngannou.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Felt bad for Miocic, but that is the fighting game. You get older and these younger hungry beasts keep getting better.

I thought Stipe tried to wrestle a little less than he should have. You do not go toe to toe with Francis, unless you are a Derrick Lewis.


Feel the same way, and i still think Jon will beat Ngannou.

Thats the fight. I just dont know if jon can withstand too many punches from a guy who basically rag dolled the HW champ. I think francis can take more of jons punishment than the other way around. IMO jon lost his last fight vs. Reyes.

Plus seeing where francis came from I have a hard time believing that he wont at least protect that belt a few times successfully. But thats the fight.

BTW the footage of his home town watching the fight made me happy.
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