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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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 Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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STILL 2
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu |
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SweetP
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | If that's what it takes for Orlando to eek out a 4 point win at home in a must-win situation, good luck doing that in 3 of the next 4 games. |
Exactly. I think the Lakers are the better team and the better team ususally will win out in the series. Lakers kept it close thruout most of the game even with Kobe having a (for him) sub-par second half. Orlando played very well last night and barely won. In game one, Lakers played very well and made it look easy.
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24181
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| I figured the Magic would come out fired up at home and prepared myself ahead of time for a possible Laker loss. So I wasn't hugely upset. Kobe made a lot of very un-Kobe-like plays in the fourth but that won't happen two games in a row. Bottom line, the Magic had to play an almost perfect game to beat us in their own house and they only barely pulled it off. I like our odds in the next two games. |
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hoopschick29
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Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 12898
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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We played better in the loss then we did in the game 2 win. I love our odds for games 4 and 5.
As a whole, we don't have anything to hang our heads about. We fought for that game last night and avoided the kind of letdown seen in prior series, even with Orlando shooting lights out. If not for some late game errors, we take it.
I expect Kobe and everyone to play much better and close those gaps that led us to losing last night.
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So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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StuLantz#1
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Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously it's better to be up 2-1 than down 1-2 at this point, but I don't like the fact the Lakers are just one more hot shooting Magic game in Orlando and one game with a considerable FT differential from being down in the series. Those outside threes start falling a lot more the more confident you get. Orlando slowing down Bryant the last two games (whether they've figured how to effectively guard him or if he's just fallen into his own Finals shooting slump) is a big problem. |
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
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im optimistic for game 4. i really wanted a sweep, but im not too upset with the loss.
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I was so upset with Kobe's 2nd half play last night that I had to work off the frustration. As great as his 1st half was, his 2nd half was just as bad:
- 3-7 from the foul line
- sub 30% shooting from the field
- a couple of questionable shot attempts in transition during the 4th quarter
- committing a turnover while down by 2 (same type of turnover he committed against Houston in game 2)
- bobbling a catchable pass that Pau threw to him after nearly saving Kobe from a turnover
It's a good thing I'm a lot more even-keeled today. Even with Orlando shooting the heck out of the ball, I thought the rest of the team did their jobs as far as keeping it close enough for Kobe to finish the job. You expect Kobe to shoot at least 80% from the line and take care of the ball at the end of games. Neither of those things happened from the player you least expected to worry about during crunch time.
Still, I'm proud of the overall effort of the team. The team that was playing earlier in the playoffs would've gotten blown out in this type of game, but these guys kept fighting. It took a superhuman shooting effort from Orlando plus uncharacteristic mistakes from Kobe to beat the Lakers.
Let's hope the Lakers continue to play with the same kind of effort but make the appropriate adjustments to take tomorrow's game. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, we need to get Gasol more touches. Yes, we need more consistent offensive contributions from LO. Yes, we missed too many free throws. Yes, Kobe messed up to close the game, guaranteeing our defeat in a winnable game. The Lakers also didn't get into their 20+ assist rhythm (which seems to be a key to us winning games as less than 20 assists tends to be indicative of too much one on one play).
However, those are all offensive concerns. Being that the Lakers shot 51.3% from the field and only gave up a reasonable 13 turnovers while scoring 104 points on only 78 field goal attempts, I'm not sure offense was really an issue.
The real issue was defense. Yes, the Magic made some pretty difficult shots that we wouldn't expect them to make all the time, but we didn't make it as hard on them as it could have been. Although Orlando missed a lot of shots in game 1 they could have made, IMO, our defensive philosophies were solid that game and have become more and more flawed since game 1. It's no coincidence that, as a result, Orlando's FG% has continued to rise since game 1 as well.
No, I don't expect them to shoot about 60% next game even if we played the same way... which, in itself, if our offense continues to perform, may be enough for a win regardless. However, if we continue to play defense as we have in game 2 and, especially, as we did in game 3, then giving up high FG% numbers moving forward is still likely.
Above all, to get back to solid defense, we need to do a better job at picking our poison.
We're helping wayyyy too much on Howard. We need to let Pau and Bynum guard Howard one on one as much as possible. I wouldn't even mind it if that means Howard scores a little better SO LONG AS we stay on the shooters and don't let them get any open shots from the 3pt line. Also, even when we help, we need to do a better of choosing how we rotate. The rotation should always be set to cover Lewis, Turkoglu, or Pietrus first, especially if they are at the corner 3. If Alston, Lee, or Nelson are at the wing 3, they are prone to miss those shots and, most of the time, are just looking to swing the ball anyway which has the added benefit of disrupting their offensive rhythm as a whole). On the screen/roll against Howard, this would demand that we let Gasol or Bynum lie in wait to defend Howard's roll. This, in effect, would not only eliminate Howard's clear paths to the basket and Howard's ability to gain good post position against our recovering bigs, but it would also put the onus on guys like Lee, Howard, and Lewis to create their own shots without help. Aside from Howard (and Nelson when healthy), Turkoglu is the only guy who can create his own shot without help and get to the spots on the floor he wants to. We haven't used that fact against them enough.
I especially think we're playing the Alston screen and roll terribly. He's the exact kind of guard you want shooting, not the guard you want to trap and force to make a pass. Turn Alston into a scorer and it more often helps than hurts, especially given that its his inclination to hurt his team by playing selfishly at times. Once you do make him a shooter though, it's important to make those shots wide open jumpers, not wide open layups. The same goes for Nelson. With Lee, you want to make him shoot 3s or layups... his game is the midrange shot and dunks. In that mind frame, the same principles against Alston and Nelson apply when playing the pick and roll... i.e. GO UNDER THE SCREEN and make sure that LO/Ariza don't have to help but rather can stay on Lewis or Turkoglu respectively.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Yes, we need to get Gasol more touches. Yes, we need more consistent offensive contributions from LO. Yes, we missed too many free throws. Yes, Kobe messed up to close the game, guaranteeing our defeat in a winnable game. The Lakers also didn't get into their 20+ assist rhythm (which seems to be a key to us winning games as less than 20 assists tends to be indicative of too much one on one player).
However, those are all offensive concerns. Being that the Lakers shot 51.3% from the field and only gave up a reasonable 13 turnovers while scoring 104 points on only 78 field goal attempts.
The real issue was defense. Yes, the Magic made some pretty difficult shots that we wouldn't expect them to make, but we didn't make it on hard on them as we could have. Although Orlando missed a lot of shots in game 1 they could have made, IMO, our defensive philosophies have become more and more flawed since game 1. It's no coincidence that, as a result, Orlando's FG% has continued to rise since game 1 as well.
No, I don't expect them to shoot about 60% next game even if we played the same way... which, in itself if our offense continues to perform, may be enough for a win. However, if we continue to play defense as we have in game 2 and, especially, in game 3, then high giving up high FG% numbers is still likely.
We need to do a better job at picking our poison.
We're helping wayyyy too much on Howard. We need to let Pau and Bynum guard Howard one on one as much as possible. I wouldn't even mind it if that means Howard scores a little better SO LONG AS we stay on the shooters and don't let them get any open shots from the 3pt line. Also, even when we help, we need to do a better of choosing how we rotate. The rotation should always be set to cover Lewis, Turkoglu, or Pietrus first, especially if they are at the corner 3. If Alston, Lee, or Nelson are at the wing 3, they are prone to miss those shots and, most of the time, are just looking to swing the ball anyway.
I think we're playing the Alston screen and roll terribly. He's the exact kind of guard you want shooting and you should go under the screen against... he's not the guard you want to trap and make pass. Turn Alston into a scorer and it more often helps than hurts.... just, if he's shooting, make it open jumpers but not open layups. The same goes for Nelson. With Lee, you want to make him shoot 3s or layups... his game is the midrange shot and dunks. In the mindframe, the same principles against Alston and Nelson apply when playing the pick and roll... i.e. GO UNDER THE SCREEN and make sure that LO/Ariza don't have to help but rather can stay on Lewis or Turkoglu respectively. |
My concern with the coaching before the series had to do with defending the three point shot. All season long, the Lakers have essentially played the percentages game. They will collapse into the paint, and allow shooters ample room to shoot. They did this against New Orleans when Chris Paul penetrated, for example, giving guys like Peja look after look after look. In games when the other team lights it up in the first half, the assistant coaches, in the pre-second-half interview, will downplay any need for adjustments, and say that they expect the other team to cool down in the second half, and they especially don't think the opposition will hit those same threes in the 4th quarter. That's all well and good in November, but this is the Finals.
Maybe they are just giving lip service to PJ's philosophy. At times, they did make some adjustments. But often they didn't. Watching the D reflexively collapse around the paint against even such offensively mediocre post players as Tyson Chandler is a real head-scratcher. It's baffling to see them do so against Howard this series. I'll repeat what I've said many times; orlando get's their juices flowing off the three-ball, NOT off of Howard's dunks.
In this series, theys started off fine in game 1, but have reverted to the old surround the post man philosophy which has loosened up the floor for Orlando. I don't get it. I'm not sure why PJ felt he had to tweak what was working in the first game. (It was unbelievable in game 2 when LO helped out on Howard when his own man -- Lewis -- was the guy feeding the post; Howard would simply pass back to Lewis for an open three.) Howard is a nice player but very raw offensively. He CAN be single covered by Bynum, Gasol or even Mbenga (if necessary), IMO. For one thing he only seems to go right, which makes him even more limited. At any rate, it's pointless, futile, and suicidal to treat Howard as if he was Shaq O'Neal redux. He isn't. He also isn't Tim DUncan. Instead, he's a very good athlete with almost rudimentary post skills on offense. he should be guarded accordingly. Surprise doubles can always be employed down the stretch after you spent most of the game keeping the shooters on ice.
Doing so will, for example, prevent the team from going into scramble mode (which is what orlando wants) and will remove LO's tendency to "help out" at the most inopportune times (i.e., when Lewis is spotting up for an open three).
On the pick and roll, when Alston has the ball, I would guard him with Shannon who I would instruct to go under the screen and then close as fast as possible when Alston goes up for the shot. Make him a shooter. I prefer Shannon doing this over Fish because Shannon is longer and being faster, can close much more quickly.
Also, challenge the pass. I thought the lakers did a poor job all last night of challenging the passing of Hedo, for example. The lakers need to use their length not only vertically but horizontally as well.
I also think LO should guard Hedo, particularly for purposes of defending the pick and roll. Hedo is a legit 6'10" and despite Ariza's length, Hedo can still pass over him, shoot over him, and survey the floor over him. I think LO is a better match-up. I also prefer LO being on the ball (which Hedo will likely have) than being off the ball because LO's attention tends to drift off his man (Lewis) when he's out on the perimeter which has hurt the Lakers when Lewis starts hitting those wide-open kick-out threes. I think Ariza is much better suited to staying disciplined on Lewis, as well as playing the passing lanes to get a hand on those long-pass ball reverals the magic like to emply.
The wild-card is Pietrus. Kobe or whoever is guarding him simply has to respect his ability. Pietrus can both spot up and slash, so you can't play him lazily. Kobe CANNOT play Pietrus as if he is the Scrub of the Month as Kobe tends to do against lesser-marquee names. He has to play him honestly.
As for Howard: if the refs are going to allow Howard to camp out in the lane there's not a whole lot the Lakers can do. That's an officiating issue and the less time spent whining about the better. BUT, when the lakers are on offense, they have to pound the rock as much as they can to whomever Howard is guarding -- Bynum or Gasol -- and let them go to work. I would attack Howard again and again and again. He's much better as an off-the-ball defender, but can be put in foul trouble if you attack him. In the first quarter, the lakers should take turns going into Pau and Bynum and have them attack Lewis and Howard respectively.
Cleveland was most successful against Howard when LBJ attacked the paint.
Likewise, the lakers should eschew the three ball unless it's the kind of shot they can step into. Three-point misses ful the orlando transition game. Thus, Kobe and Ariza need to also attack Howard. He's getting away with murder out there. But if the lakers turn tentative, they've given up the advantage. They should stand the thing on it's head: go after Howard relentlessly.
SGH |
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Burgundy
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | Likewise, the lakers should eschew the three ball unless it's the kind of shot they can step into. Three-point misses ful the orlando transition game. Thus, Kobe and Ariza need to also attack Howard. He's getting away with murder out there. But if the lakers turn tentative, they've given up the advantage. They should stand the thing on it's head: go after Howard relentlessly.
SGH |
Your point about the three point shooting is the most important one.
In Game 1 the Lakers took a total of 9 three pointers, and won by 25.
In Game 3, the Lakers took a whopping 23 3pters, and actually hit 35% of them (a respectable clip) and lost.
In Game 1, the Lakers relentlessly attacked the Magic inside. That's how you beat them, and that's what they need to do in Game 4.
I remember in Game 1 there were several times when Kobe had Ariza wide open on the wing for a 3, and instead passed it inside to LO or Gasol. THAT IS THE RIGHT PLAY TO MAKE.
In Game 3, Ariza shot 7 three pointers...and only made 2. Farmar shot 3, three pointers. It was almost like Kobe's hot shooting first quarter made those guys feel like they had license to shoot.
The Game plan against the Magic is simple: GO INSIDE. As SGH said, GO RIGHT AT DWIGHT HOWARD.
By the Lakers reverting to being a jump shooting team in Game 3, they played right into the Magic's hands - they didn't need to use Gortat. |
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japanesebeef1
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1473
Location: Colton, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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It's simple.
No way Orlando hits 67% . . . four out of seven games.
No way Kobe shoots like this . . . four out of seven games.
I find a loss like this comforting from that standpoint. Lakers in 6! |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47610
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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DB, if you don't mind let me add a couple:
Joey Crawford 
Mark Wunderlich 
Derek Stafford 
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Addicus
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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DB you are a entertaining genius. I love the write up.
I would like to point out 4 mistakes in the 4th quarter that kept the Lakers from winning that have nothing to do with bad/missed calls or missed free throws:
1. Farmar turning the ball over after we fought hard for the offensive rebound. It was pretty much the only bad thing he did all night and it negated all the good he had accomplished. A guard should never panic when handling the ball.
2. Kobe getting ripped on the double team split; Pau saving his butt and then panicking and not calling a time out. Uncharacteristic of the Spaniard who tends to keep his cool at all times.
3. Ariza missing a posterizing dunk on Howard. I was in awe as that ball came out of the basket.
4. Kobe missing a layup right after Ariza missed the dunk.
Game changers.
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