The Official Jermaine O'Neal Thread
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Car54
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject:

TNLakersFan wrote:
Car54 wrote:
TN here's a trade demand

"I just told them I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now - I just can't go through that because physically it's going to wear on me too much to do that."



That is not a trade demand. That is just complaining.


ok
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
Here we go again, same posters over and understating the same obvious and stale points and counter points. Over valuing and under valuing players depending on personal points of view. Hyperbolic statemants all around. Can't we just be honest?

Jermaine is a fine player, he's lost a few steps but probably has 3 productive seasons left in the tank. If you trade for him, and for some reason the team can't win enough, he could use his opt out NEXT off season to move elsewhere. You have to weigh ALL the risk vs. reward factors, not just the one's that support your position! So basically to make a trade for JO a worthwhile goal, winning a title, within 3 seasons HAS to be realistic, and without question more than just possible.

IS IT?!?

I don't see it, do you give IND, possibly, a defensive anchor to build around for what quite possibly be 10-12 seasons, for a 3, maybe 4 year rental, with only a slim possibility that it would bring a championship?


Lets be honest, if JO gets traded here, he will have to agree to waive his opt-out, sorta similar to the KG situation in Boston.

Second, if what you say comes to pass (JO only 3 years left in the tank), then opting out would cost him million of dollar because no way in hell would someone give him a max contract.

The opt-out gives him leverage to go to a city where he wants to live. No sense in using it after getting what he wants.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject:

lol@ JO having 3 years left while being Kobe's age I guess LO probably has about the same amount left. after all he can't even handle the weight of being 2nd option.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject:

TNLakersFan wrote:
Car54 wrote:
TNLakersFan wrote:
you beat me too it. I wish he would demand a trade, make this alot easier.


He already has in the past, but i'll give Pacers FO some credit they managed to tell JO their plans. Meanwhile Lakers lied to their star which lead to a public demand.



Has he really?? I have heard rumblings in the past, but has he actually DEMANDED a trade!?


he demanded a trade when Isaiah was let go. He's been demanding to be traded for the nth consecutive year already
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:

he demanded a trade when Isaiah was let go. He's been demanding to be traded for the nth consecutive year already


Difference is, JO has all the leverage this time.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject:

Another SI Article: California dreamin' -- Jermaine O'Neal wants trade, sees Lakers as best fit

LOS ANGELES -- If Jermaine O'Neal gets his wish, he will not be playing for the Indiana Pacers next season. If he gets his dream, he will be suiting up for the Los Angeles Lakers alongside Kobe Bryant.

While here Sunday for a charity basketball game hosted by Baron Davis and Paul Pierce, O'Neal said he doesn't want to be a part of a Pacers youth movement and that it would be in his and the team's best interest to part ways.

"I would welcome a trade to the Lakers," said O'Neal, who averaged 19.4 points, 9.6 rebounds and 2.6 blocked shots last season. "Indiana has given me the opportunity to establish myself as a really good player in this league, but they're into rebuilding and going really young, and I'm just not in a position physically to go through another five to six years with a lot of losses and a lot of down time."

The Lakers have tried to acquire O'Neal, 28, several times this offseason, but talks have reportedly stalled over Indiana's insistence that the Lakers' package include both Lamar Odom and 19-year-old center Andrew Bynum. The Lakers' refusal to part with Bynum, the 10th pick in the 2005 draft, cost them a chance at Jason Kidd during last year's trading deadline. The failed trade was the basis of Bryant's infamous videotaped tirade in a shopping center parking lot in which he said the Lakers should have dealt Bynum for Kidd.

"I was ready but you never know in this business," said Kidd, who was also in Los Angeles for the charity game. "Playing with Kobe makes the game easy. He's the most dominant offensive player and he's a competitor, and I love playing with guys who love to compete."

If the Lakers once again fail to deal Bynum for a proven All-Star, Kidd could be the benefactor: O'Neal said he would also welcome a move to the Nets.

"Los Angeles and New Jersey would be my top two teams," O'Neal said. "I think L.A.'s a real possibility and I think New Jersey's a possibility too."

The idea of O'Neal coming to New Jersey quickly put a smile on Kidd's face.

"I think that would be a great addition for us if we had an opportunity to get a guy like Jermaine," Kidd said. "He comes every night to play and he's a great person and a great basketball player. It would be a huge move."

If O'Neal had to choose one destination, however, it would be Los Angeles. He recently sold his home in Westwood after getting an unexpectedly good deal but said that he and his wife were already searching for a new house in Los Angeles and would love to make it a permanent residence.

"I love L.A.," O'Neal said. "I normally train here every summer. The last two summers I haven't trained here because I got hurt, but I love it here. My daughter loves it. My wife loves it. This is one of the prime places that if I were to be traded, I would allow Indiana to trade me here."

The main reason O'Neal would welcome a trade to Los Angeles has little to do with the sunshine and shopping that his wife and daughter enjoy and more to do with playing alongside Bryant, whom he entered the league with in 1996 as the only two high school players selected in that draft.

"We've spoken a couple times this offseason," O'Neal said. "Me and Kobe have been on each other since we were 15, playing AAU basketball, adidas All-American Camp, Nike All-American Camp. It's been a long relationship that we've had. We talked about maybe playing together. ... We just want to make sure that our thought processes are similar and now we're going to let the business handle itself. I mean, we could talk for years, but if [Lakers GM] Mitch Kupchak and [Pacers president] Larry Bird don't decide to make the deal, then it's all talk."

While Bryant has had little to no interaction with his teammates this offseason, he and O'Neal have found a common ground in their respective positions. Both are leading rebuilding squads in the prime of their careers without enough help around them.

"I think Kobe's in a position right now where he understands that he needs some help," O'Neal said. "He needs some help to get to the position where he wants to be. I think he's the best player in the NBA and the world, but obviously no player can do it by himself. He has a nice group around him, but he needs some help and I can give him some support. ... He wants to prove to people that he can get back to the NBA championship, and I'm at a point in my career where I want to prove to people that I can help a team get to the championship."

While some have suggested that O'Neal might not be the player he once was, he said that had more to do with injuries, including a left groin tear and a torn meniscus in his left knee, than diminished skills.

"What people don't realize when they consider my last three years to be 'down years' is that I was physically hurt," said O'Neal, who missed 82 games during that stretch. "I went out and played on knees I needed to take care of. My meniscus, I put that off for two years [before having surgery in April]. I'm 100 percent right now. I really want an opportunity to rejuvenate myself. At 28, I'm going into my prime. The game is slowing down for me, I understand it a lot more, so I'm ready to go out and show people what I could really do."

O'Neal, who admits he hasn't always seen eye-to-eye with the direction Bird has taken the team, has been in constant contact with the Pacers during the offseason. He's spent the majority of his time at home in Indiana and away from the spotlight while his name is bandied about in various trade talks.

"I've had quite a few conversations with the Pacers," he said. "I just wanted to see where the organization's focus was with the team. If they're trying to rebuild, maybe it's better to get younger pieces [in a trade] for me so they could grow with the young guys. I just told them that I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now. I can't go through that. Physically that's going to wear on me too much to do that."

After the charity game, played at USC's Galen Center, O'Neal, who didn't play, smiled and laughed as Lakers fan after Lakers fan, including Snoop Dogg, tried to persuade the five-time All-Star to come to Los Angeles. It's a plea he's heard many times before but one that especially hit home this time as he contemplated the end of his seven-year career in Indiana.

"I tried not to come out here this year. I wanted to stay away from a lot of the talk because it's an emotional time for me to talk about being traded," he said. "I get emotional talking about it because I always told Reggie [Miller] I'd win a championship for him, and for whatever reason we've had some tough times up there [in Indiana]. I thought if I came out here [to Los Angles], it would help persuade me to make the decision that I need to make. My decision is for me to get better as a player, and if things don't work out this year, I have an option in my contract next year and I will opt out and become a free agent."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/arash_markazi/08/06/oneal.trade/index.html
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gng930
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
...So basically to make a trade for JO a worthwhile goal, winning a title, within 3 seasons HAS to be realistic, and without question more than just possible.

IS IT?!?

I don't see it, do you give IND, possibly, a defensive anchor to build around for what quite possibly be 10-12 seasons, for a 3, maybe 4 year rental, with only a slim possibility that it would bring a championship?


With Kobe and Phil in the fold, a 3 or 4-year window is pretty much the best you can hope for. If you can think of a deal that gives us a better chance than by all means tell us.

And if you want to worry about players opting out leaving us with nothing after giving up our future, then you might as well trade Kobe now while you can because he has an opt out in 2 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
Rick12322 wrote:
Car54 wrote:


I doubt that. JO will put up another 20 & 10 season what will Bynum avg?


20 pts. at 43-46% from a PF/Center as a first option on Offense is not good.


Really? How many teams have a big like that with an allstar guard that's stuck being mediocre?


I don't know. How many of the Laker's 9 championships were won with a center shooting under 50%? I believe the answer is Ø.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject:

21_Blessings wrote:
re4ee wrote:
Here we go again, same posters over and understating the same obvious and stale points and counter points. Over valuing and under valuing players depending on personal points of view. Hyperbolic statemants all around. Can't we just be honest?

Jermaine is a fine player, he's lost a few steps but probably has 3 productive seasons left in the tank. If you trade for him, and for some reason the team can't win enough, he could use his opt out NEXT off season to move elsewhere. You have to weigh ALL the risk vs. reward factors, not just the one's that support your position! So basically to make a trade for JO a worthwhile goal, winning a title, within 3 seasons HAS to be realistic, and without question more than just possible.

IS IT?!?

I don't see it, do you give IND, possibly, a defensive anchor to build around for what quite possibly be 10-12 seasons, for a 3, maybe 4 year rental, with only a slim possibility that it would bring a championship?


Lets be honest, if JO gets traded here, he will have to agree to waive his opt-out, sorta similar to the KG situation in Boston.

Second, if what you say comes to pass (JO only 3 years left in the tank), then opting out would cost him million of dollar because no way in hell would someone give him a max contract.

The opt-out gives him leverage to go to a city where he wants to live. No sense in using it after getting what he wants.
KG didn't waive his opt out, he aggreed to a contract extention, commiting to stay in BOS. I didn't say he'd be DONE in 3 seasons, but starting in that 2nd or 3rd year, we'd be witnessing the phenomenon known as "diminishing returns". It's like what is happening to a whole lot of recent home buyers in CA, they commited more of their future, but couldn't get their homes without the sub-prime adjustable rate loans, which is now capping them out, so to speak, with larger payments than they can afford. They OVER PAID for an asset that is now worth LESS THAN THEY PAID for it.

I am not stating that JO isn't worth going after, just that we need to acknowledge that overpaying for him carries RISKS! What some here are doing is focusing ONLY on the potential for POSITIVE while ignoring ALL RISK!

That said, I would be extremely reluctant to give up Bynum, he's likely to be around a long time, and could be the lifeline the Lakers need post-Kobe. Jermaine will NOT outlast Kobe in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Jermaine O'Neal Not Interested in Rebuilding - Laker related

Rick12322 wrote:
Car54 wrote:

WTF has Bynum done in this league? Bynum hasn't done Jack and potential doesn't warrant all of this hype.


You really can't see the possibilities?


the only possibility I see is KObe walking in 2 years and the Lakers going into lottery for the forseeable future.

Do you see that possibility?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject:

great read
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject:

TNLakersFan wrote:
Car54 wrote:
TN here's a trade demand

"I just told them I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now - I just can't go through that because physically it's going to wear on me too much to do that."



That is not a trade demand. That is just complaining.


If you go by the CNNSI article:

Quote:

O'Neal said he doesn't want to be a part of a Pacers youth movement and that it would be in his and the team's best interest to part ways...they're into rebuilding and going really young, and I'm just not in a position physically to go through another five to six years with a lot of losses and a lot of down time.


He's definitely convinced that they're rebuilding. They didn't even use their MLE. That's not a team totally committed to building around their current superstar, it's a team trying to leave open the possibilty of getting cap-space.

It sounds like a PC trade demand if you ask me. We're all a little biased after Kobe's tirade.

"You call that a trade demand?" - Kobe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject:

Unfortunately The pacers will probably dump him off somewhere else if we don't trade for him.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
21_Blessings wrote:
re4ee wrote:
Here we go again, same posters over and understating the same obvious and stale points and counter points. Over valuing and under valuing players depending on personal points of view. Hyperbolic statemants all around. Can't we just be honest?

Jermaine is a fine player, he's lost a few steps but probably has 3 productive seasons left in the tank. If you trade for him, and for some reason the team can't win enough, he could use his opt out NEXT off season to move elsewhere. You have to weigh ALL the risk vs. reward factors, not just the one's that support your position! So basically to make a trade for JO a worthwhile goal, winning a title, within 3 seasons HAS to be realistic, and without question more than just possible.

IS IT?!?

I don't see it, do you give IND, possibly, a defensive anchor to build around for what quite possibly be 10-12 seasons, for a 3, maybe 4 year rental, with only a slim possibility that it would bring a championship?


Lets be honest, if JO gets traded here, he will have to agree to waive his opt-out, sorta similar to the KG situation in Boston.

Second, if what you say comes to pass (JO only 3 years left in the tank), then opting out would cost him million of dollar because no way in hell would someone give him a max contract.

The opt-out gives him leverage to go to a city where he wants to live. No sense in using it after getting what he wants.
KG didn't waive his opt out, he aggreed to a contract extention, commiting to stay in BOS. I didn't say he'd be DONE in 3 seasons, but starting in that 2nd or 3rd year, we'd be witnessing the phenomenon known as "diminishing returns". It's like what is happening to a whole lot of recent home buyers in CA, they commited more of their future, but couldn't get their homes without the sub-prime adjustable rate loans, which is now capping them out, so to speak, with larger payments than they can afford. They OVER PAID for an asset that is now worth LESS THAN THEY PAID for it.

I am not stating that JO isn't worth going after, just that we need to acknowledge that overpaying for him carries RISKS! What some here are doing is focusing ONLY on the potential for POSITIVE while ignoring ALL RISK!

That said, I would be extremely reluctant to give up Bynum, he's likely to be around a long time, and could be the lifeline the Lakers need post-Kobe. Jermaine will NOT outlast Kobe in the NBA.


No, the lifeline post-Kobe will be cap-space and the opportunity to play for a franchise that will have shown its commitment to winning and remain one of the most, if not THE most, attractive destinations for free agents.

Bynum is a great prospect, but it remains more unlikely than likely that he'll be able to carry a championship team.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject:

What has JO said?
Quote:
My decision is for me to get better as a player, and if things don't work out this year, I have an option in my contract next year and I will opt out and become a free agent.
So some of you want to have JO and Kobe BOTH being able to opt out "if things don't work out"? And you want to do so by giving away ALL of the Lakers' tradeable assets? They'd be able to agree to split the MLE in BOS for a season or two, THAT would be as close to a shoe-in championship as there ever has been!

Ray Allen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
KG didn't waive his opt out, he aggreed to a contract extention, commiting to stay in BOS.


Key word bolded. Lakers would not make a trade for JO unless they were absolutely sure he was staying. That would be handled in the orignal trade.

re4ee wrote:
I didn't say he'd be DONE in 3 seasons, but starting in that 2nd or 3rd year, we'd be witnessing the phenomenon known as "diminishing returns". It's like what is happening to a whole lot of recent home buyers in CA, they commited more of their future, but couldn't get their homes without the sub-prime adjustable rate loans, which is now capping them out, so to speak, with larger payments than they can afford. They OVER PAID for an asset that is now worth LESS THAN THEY PAID for it.


Did you not read what I wrote? I used your EXACT SAME WORDS 'left in the tank'.

Opting out would make ZERO sense for him if he is in the city where he wants to play and is making MAX money that he isn't even worth. Zero chance of him opting out in a situation like that.

re4ee wrote:
I am not stating that JO isn't worth going after, just that we need to acknowledge that overpaying for him carries RISKS! What some here are doing is focusing ONLY on the potential for POSITIVE while ignoring ALL RISK!


Yet you're ignoring that exact same risk from the other point of view.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject:

How can you over pay for JO if Bynum isnt and doesn't become an Allstar? To me losing Kobe will be over paying for Bynum. Since were in the business of over paying players. Grant Mckie Luke Kwame etc... Might as well do it for a guy thats an Allstar
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject:

Funny how all of these stars are following Kobe's pattern. Call out the front office, accuse them of "Rebuilding", and subtly asking to be traded. Even KG did as much in his Celtics press conference.
aybe Kobe has some influence in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Jermaine O'Neal Not Interested in Rebuilding - Laker related

Car54 wrote:
Rick12322 wrote:
Car54 wrote:

WTF has Bynum done in this league? Bynum hasn't done Jack and potential doesn't warrant all of this hype.


You really can't see the possibilities?


I see a lot of possibilities like us losing Kobe is one them. [/i]


I would like to keep Kobe. But, I do not believe in catering to him just because he doesn't like what the organization is doing. I believe this organization wants to win and has very carefully chosen the path they believe will yield the best chance for success. And I agree with what they are doing right now.

Let's just try to keep in mind we both want the Lakers to be successful. Maybe it's more important for you to have Kobe as the hero here? That's not important to me. It's not my goal to worship star athletes. I want the team to come together and play good team ball. I want them to have good comraderie. Yes, I want Kobe to use his God given skills to be a part of that. But if he wants to leave because he doesn't like the approach the FO is taking then that's just too bad, he'll have to wait two years. As a matter of principle you just can't give into those childish demands, 'cause if you do you'll only create a breeding ground for more of the same. The buck has to stop here.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Jermaine O'Neal Not Interested in Rebuilding - Laker related

Rick12322 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
Rick12322 wrote:
Car54 wrote:

WTF has Bynum done in this league? Bynum hasn't done Jack and potential doesn't warrant all of this hype.


You really can't see the possibilities?


I see a lot of possibilities like us losing Kobe is one them. [/i]


I would like to keep Kobe. But, I do not believe in catering to him just because he doesn't like what the organization is doing. I believe this organization wants to win and has very carefully chosen the path they believe will yield the best chance for success. And I agree with what they are doing right now.

Let's just try to keep in mind we both want the Lakers to be successful. Maybe it's more important for you to have Kobe as the hero here? That's not important to me. It's not my goal to worship star athletes. I want the team to come together and play good team ball. I want them to have good comraderie. Yes, I want Kobe to use his God given skills to be a part of that. But if he wants to leave because he doesn't like the approach the FO is taking then that's just too bad, he'll have to wait two years. As a matter of principle you just can't give into those childish demands, 'cause if you do you'll only create a breeding ground for more of the same. The buck has to stop here.


Since when is demanding a chance to win childish? How are the Lakers on the right track for the future when we won less games this year than Last year? Don't give me the Injury excuse either.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject:

dmills wrote:
Funny how all of these stars are following Kobe's pattern. Call out the front office, accuse them of "Rebuilding", and subtly asking to be traded. Even KG did as much in his Celtics press conference.
aybe Kobe has some influence in the NBA.



Funny how it has worked for others (KG, Pierce) and now probably JO but hasn't worked for Kobe himself!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
dmills wrote:
Funny how all of these stars are following Kobe's pattern. Call out the front office, accuse them of "Rebuilding", and subtly asking to be traded. Even KG did as much in his Celtics press conference.
aybe Kobe has some influence in the NBA.



Funny how it has worked for others (KG, Pierce) and now probably JO but hasn't worked for Kobe himself!


Because Jerry cares more about raising ticket prices than he does winning.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject:

Do we see the common theme here of all the Laker Potential aquisitions?

Kidd - too old (we could of usedhis 14/10/10 playoff average)

Baron davis - injury prone (we could have used his 25/4/6 playoff average

Boozer - injury prone (20/12/3 this season mvp potential leads team deep into playoffs

J Oneal -injury prone

See the common theme? We have to a risk guys!!!!! Their are no other 20/10 powerforwards knocking on our door
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject:

fakethefunk wrote:
Do we see the common theme here of all the Laker Potential aquisitions?

Kidd - too old (we could of usedhis 14/10/10 playoff average)

Baron davis - injury prone (we could have used his 25/4/6 playoff average

Boozer - injury prone (20/12/3 this season mvp potential leads team deep into playoffs

J Oneal -injury prone

See the common theme? We have to a risk guys!!!!! Their are no other 20/10 powerforwards knocking on our door


This is true
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
KobeDunk wrote:
dmills wrote:
Funny how all of these stars are following Kobe's pattern. Call out the front office, accuse them of "Rebuilding", and subtly asking to be traded. Even KG did as much in his Celtics press conference.
aybe Kobe has some influence in the NBA.



Funny how it has worked for others (KG, Pierce) and now probably JO but hasn't worked for Kobe himself!


Because Jerry cares more about raising ticket prices than he does winning.


truth
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