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NestT
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: DraftExpress: Lakers draft Green, Hill,& Begic |
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According to DraftExpress if the Draft were held today the Lakers would draft Jeff Green, Herbert Hill, and Mirza Begic
Jeff Green is a triple threat SF that is long enough and athletic enough to be a great defender although he is just an average defender in college.
Herbert Hill is a two-way swatting PF.
Mirza Begic is a 7'3" 220 lbs euro C that the Lakers can stash in Europe for a few years to see if he develops.
I would be doing cartwheels if Mitch drafted those guys. 
http://draftexpress.com/mock.php?y=2007
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| i guess you missed the part at the top where it says team needs aren't taken into account as of yet. these are just rankings, not an actual mock draft. |
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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What we should draft is Alando Tucker in the 1st round and Mustafa Shakur in the 2nd.
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NestT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | i guess you missed the part at the top where it says team needs aren't taken into account as of yet. these are just rankings, not an actual mock draft. |
I guess you missed the part where a good GM drafts best player available.
That being said players will move up and players will move up between now and draft day.
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NestT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AirKobe8 wrote: | | What we should draft is Alando Tucker in the 1st round and Mustafa Shakur in the 2nd. |
I wouldn't mind either of those two in the 2nd round.
I would not use the 1st round pick on a 6'5" SF with no 3 pt shot and a shaky mid-range J.Even an athletic one with long arms.
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NestT wrote: | | AirKobe8 wrote: | | What we should draft is Alando Tucker in the 1st round and Mustafa Shakur in the 2nd. |
I wouldn't mind either of those two in the 2nd round.
I would not use the 1st round pick on a 6'5" SF with no 3 pt shot and a shaky mid-range J.Even an athletic one with long arms. |
Thats what scout reports said about Josh Howard, and thats why he went late second round, look at the kid now.
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angel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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At this point, it may be better to look at trading the pick along with a player or two to upgrade. I don't think there is much room on the rotation as it is.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Still far too early. Wait til the kids declare first.
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D Nice
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mike -
What are your initial thoughts on Jeff Green? He seems to have Luke's passing/ball handling ability (or close to it) with some actual athleticism to slash to the cup and play defense. His 3 point shot has improved by leaps and bounds this year (over 40% last time I checked), if he were to fall to us he'd be a perfect selection, wouldn't he? He's got great size and strength for an SF, I could see him growing to compliment Kobe and Odom well on both ends... |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| NestT wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | i guess you missed the part at the top where it says team needs aren't taken into account as of yet. these are just rankings, not an actual mock draft. |
I guess you missed the part where a good GM drafts best player available.
That being said players will move up and players will move up between now and draft day. |
whether they do or don't is irrelevant, you said draftexpress is saying that these players are the exact picks that the lakers would take if the draft was held today. obviously that is not what draftexpress is intending since they stated team needs are NOT taken into account. they're rankings. |
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NestT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| AirKobe8 wrote: | | NestT wrote: | | AirKobe8 wrote: | | What we should draft is Alando Tucker in the 1st round and Mustafa Shakur in the 2nd. |
I wouldn't mind either of those two in the 2nd round.
I would not use the 1st round pick on a 6'5" SF with no 3 pt shot and a shaky mid-range J.Even an athletic one with long arms. |
Thats what scout reports said about Josh Howard, and thats why he went late second round, look at the kid now. |
Josh Howard is 6'7".
Most players exaggerate a bit. That includes Tucker. Josh is about 2 inches taller. If Tucker were the same height I would not mind using a low first on him.
Tucker is more Mason & Patterson height without the girth.
Guys that short rarely make it at SF.
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NestT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | NestT wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | i guess you missed the part at the top where it says team needs aren't taken into account as of yet. these are just rankings, not an actual mock draft. |
I guess you missed the part where a good GM drafts best player available.
That being said players will move up and players will move up between now and draft day. |
whether they do or don't is irrelevant, you said draftexpress is saying that these players are the exact picks that the lakers would take if the draft was held today. obviously that is not what draftexpress is intending since they stated team needs are NOT taken into account. they're rankings. |
At this point in time it is impossible to know "team needs" even if you believe in drafting by need.
Trades,injuries and player developement can change what you consider l needs. Some may need players to fill holes in a lineup to achieve balance. Some may need to counter moves by other teams.
So if you drafted today, any sensible person would draft by best player available. That is why draftexpress does not do the whole " team needs" thing until the very end.
In any event this is "how many angles can dance on the head of pin debate" because there will be countless shifts in perceptions on how good a player is and what "team needs are".
And lastly on this point draftexpress calls this a " 2007 Mock Draft" not a player rankings.That first post seemed to me like an attempt to stop discussion on what these 3 players would mean for the Lakers. Given that this is a draft forum, it just seems silly seeing how slow it is in here.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Josh Howard is 6'7". |
More like 6'5"+ with a 7' wingspan.
| Quote: |
Mike -
What are your initial thoughts on Jeff Green? He seems to have Luke's passing/ball handling ability (or close to it) with some actual athleticism to slash to the cup and play defense. His 3 point shot has improved by leaps and bounds this year (over 40% last time I checked), if he were to fall to us he'd be a perfect selection, wouldn't he? He's got great size and strength for an SF, I could see him growing to compliment Kobe and Odom well on both ends... |
Which is fine, but with Odom and Walton playing the exact same role, it's worth the draft choice if he's the BPA.
Radenovic gets the "triangle offense Phil Jackson pick" of the year.
And with the 2nd rounder, I want Yannick Bokolo. A PG defender.
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angel
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm still hoping there is a chance of trading the pick in a KG deal. 
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D Nice
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
Josh Howard is 6'7". |
More like 6'5"+ with a 7' wingspan.
| Quote: |
Mike -
What are your initial thoughts on Jeff Green? He seems to have Luke's passing/ball handling ability (or close to it) with some actual athleticism to slash to the cup and play defense. His 3 point shot has improved by leaps and bounds this year (over 40% last time I checked), if he were to fall to us he'd be a perfect selection, wouldn't he? He's got great size and strength for an SF, I could see him growing to compliment Kobe and Odom well on both ends... |
Which is fine, but with Odom and Walton playing the exact same role, it's worth the draft choice if he's the BPA.
Radenovic gets the "triangle offense Phil Jackson pick" of the year.
And with the 2nd rounder, I want Yannick Bokolo. A PG defender. |
But Odom and Walton aren't complete in that role...if that makes any sense. Luke doesn't have the capacity to defend the way Green can, and with Green's athleticism and abillity to finish around the rim he's got more potential on the offensive side of the ball as a slasher. Odom plays PF, so I wouldn't mind duplicating his skill set a bit and sticking it into a 6'8, athletic SF who can defend and shoot better from the perimeter than Lamar. Hell I actually think that would be a great thing.
I don't think even Phil would push for Radenovic with Vlad-Rad here...Phil will give him a year when he's healthy to prove himself, and he's playing better of late.
Green seems to be a compromise that would make sense here. He's got the IQ and passing ability Phil likes with the Athleticism and upside Jim Buss likes. If he falls, win-win IMO. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I disagree.
But my idea of a better running triangle offense team actually has a more developed Turiaf starting alongside Odom in the frontcourt, not Odom and Walton.
Green doesn't maximize his abilities on the defensive end. Nevermind the fact that he still has to learn the system. I would be surprised if he was as NBA ready as you think he is.
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Tucker may be 6'5 but he plays like he's 6'7 <
Hes got a real wide wingpsan, a 38 inch vertical, plays with energy, smart D, lots of steals, plays nice on the post for a SF, I dont see why he wouldnt fit well with us. 90% of the players who come into the NBA cant shoot at an NBA level, so he'll have to learn but the others will too.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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If he plays like he's 6'7" then he's not athletic enough to hang at SG.
A bit different when Josh Howard is 6'5" playing 6'9" with all the paint play.
Better off playing Kobe at SF then.... and just havinga pure shooter at SG 2-way.
I do have an issue with Tucker being a 5th year senior still not consistent from 3pt. range.
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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By 6'7 < I meant 6'7 or bigger, I think this dude is exactly like Josh Howard, their game is really really close.
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D Nice
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | I disagree.
But my idea of a better running triangle offense team actually has a more developed Turiaf starting alongside Odom in the frontcourt, not Odom and Walton.
Green doesn't maximize his abilities on the defensive end. Nevermind the fact that he still has to learn the system. I would be surprised if he was as NBA ready as you think he is. |
I used to be pretty high on Turiaf as a starter, but notsomuch anymore. Defensively, he's incredibly foul prone, even for a guy his age. He especialy has problems against face up big men - they seem to go right by him or pick up a foul.
He is a high energy player...will he be able to sustain that playing 30-35mpg.
Offensively, we are having enough problems getting into the paint right now. And yea, in theory that lineup could work because Kobe is Kobe and Odom can post up 90%of the SFs in the league, but I have a hard time believing that will actually work. Odom DOESN'T take advantage of his mismatches consistently, at this juncture I don't think we can bank on him becomming more aggressive. Kobe routinely takes either the 1st quarter or entire 1st half off in games...he's too predictable and it upsets me just thinking about it.
Turiaf can't create his own shot in the paint, and outside of dunks isn't the greatest finisher. He's got pretty good explosiveness when elevating for a dunk or block, but with the way PFs are going these days he'll have trouble in the quickness department. Now if we play a PF like Boozer, Jefferson, RASHEED (glares at Phil), then of course, down the road start Turiaf. But Odom can gurad most PFs. And Green would give us another guy to create shots.
And if we intend to keep Odom at 4, we need a solid defender. Doesn't have to be an all-nba guy yet, just somebody who plays decent D and has the TOOLS to get better - that applies to Green. I'm seeing his as a shorter , more incomplete Boris Diaw or a stronger/more athletic/more aggressive John Salmons. Either will due just fine here. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I disagree. I recall Howard being basically a SF/PF (even though he played SG) at Wake. He had a solid enough jumpshot and enough ball-handling skill to attack defenses at the NBA level.
I really don't recall the same of Tucker. He's a SG in a SG body without the elite SG athleticism.
Contrast that to Howard who was a SF in a SG body with high athletic levels to hang with SFs and SGs alike.
The workouts will explain everything else further.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I used to be pretty high on Turiaf as a starter, but notsomuch anymore. Defensively, he's incredibly foul prone, even for a guy his age. He especialy has problems against face up big men - they seem to go right by him or pick up a foul.
He is a high energy player...will he be able to sustain that playing 30-35mpg.
Offensively, we are having enough problems getting into the paint right now. And yea, in theory that lineup could work because Kobe is Kobe and Odom can post up 90%of the SFs in the league, but I have a hard time believing that will actually work. Odom DOESN'T take advantage of his mismatches consistently, at this juncture I don't think we can bank on him becomming more aggressive. Kobe routinely takes either the 1st quarter or entire 1st half off in games...he's too predictable and it upsets me just thinking about it.
Turiaf can't create his own shot in the paint, and outside of dunks isn't the greatest finisher. He's got pretty good explosiveness when elevating for a dunk or block, but with the way PFs are going these days he'll have trouble in the quickness department. Now if we play a PF like Boozer, Jefferson, RASHEED (glares at Phil), then of course, down the road start Turiaf. But Odom can gurad most PFs. And Green would give us another guy to create shots.
And if we intend to keep Odom at 4, we need a solid defender. Doesn't have to be an all-nba guy yet, just somebody who plays decent D and has the TOOLS to get better - that applies to Green. I'm seeing his as a shorter , more incomplete Boris Diaw or a stronger/more athletic/more aggressive John Salmons. Either will due just fine here. |
That was my issue with Turiaf being drafted. Being foul prone. That hasn't changed much.
The thing about Turiaf is, he is a 2-way player, post defender, and great weakside defender. In the triangle offense, he is capable of passing to the interior and exterior from the high post position, and hitting the midrange shot.
He doesn't have to be a shot creator. He is the best guy against the elite PFs of the league defensively. He just hasn't had the experience to learn the tendencies. Odom has had plenty of time to sub-average effectiveness. Radmanovic is practically a non-existent PF defender. Who else is left?
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AirKobe8
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | I disagree. I recall Howard being basically a SF/PF (even though he played SG) at Wake. He had a solid enough jumpshot and enough ball-handling skill to attack defenses at the NBA level.
I really don't recall the same of Tucker. He's a SG in a SG body without the elite SG athleticism.
Contrast that to Howard who was a SF in a SG body with high athletic levels to hang with SFs and SGs alike.
The workouts will explain everything else further. |
Aight, we'll see.
I respect your opinion, and since its you saying Im probably wrong, Ill watch him better, thanks.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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^All I know is, the SFs in the NBA who are 6'5"-6'7" carry a high level of interior play.
Desmond Mason
Ruben Patterson
Josh Howard
All of these guys are highly active finishing in the paint. The rare exception is Bruce Bowen and Quinton Ross, both of whom basically play SG because they're defending elite SGs and SFs, but not players too far outside of the height. You won't see Bowen or Ross on Dirk, Odom, or Rashard Lewis much, but you will on Bryant, McGrady, Ray Allen.
Don't get me wrong, I do like Tucker's game, but I don't have utmost confidence in his guard skills and the translatable perimeter skills to the NBA level.
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D Nice
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | That was my issue with Turiaf being drafted. Being foul prone. That hasn't changed much.
The thing about Turiaf is, he is a 2-way player, post defender, and great weakside defender. In the triangle offense, he is capable of passing to the interior and exterior from the high post position, and hitting the midrange shot.
He doesn't have to be a shot creator. He is the best guy against the elite PFs of the league defensively. He just hasn't had the experience to learn the tendencies. Odom has had plenty of time to sub-average effectiveness. Radmanovic is practically a non-existent PF defender. Who else is left? |
Send penetration Turiaf's way and you might as well count 2 free throws. Even his successful blocks are rarely from cutting off penetration as the last line of defense. All of his blocks that aren't fouls come from behind somehow.
In the triangle offense, Turiaf can definately survive at the 4 if he continues to add polish to his game. But that'll only work if our other starters...Farmar/Kobe/Odom/Bynum are aggressive. Kobe seems to routinely take the 1st quarter off, Odom is regressing (again), Bynum doesn't get the ball (and can't hold position), and Phil yanks Farmar when he gets out of control. Maybe this will work itself out down the line, but right now THAT is why our offense is tailing off. Green gives us someone else to put pressure on the D and create shots. |
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