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nesli Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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magic_bryant wrote: | Tarzan008 wrote: | magic_bryant wrote: | Tarzan008 wrote: | magic_bryant wrote: | Notice how our biggest mismatch, LO, can't get the ball because of Kobe's presence? That's why you leave Kobe out just a bit longer than normal. LO OWNS the Spurs. Why not ride him til they figure out a way to stop him?
Because everyone will just pass to Kobe without even thinking, and he won't FORCE the ball inside to LO. |
OH yah....God forbid we get the ball to Kobe........Lamar should support Kobe......he is the bread and butter......Your so damn obvious clown..... |
Yeah, whatever Jocker. If you couldn't see that LO was ROLLING and Kobe should have been a playmaker in that stretch then keep up the good nut-hugging work. |
Hold your own nuts clown....if you got them..... lamar is Kobe's side kick....Kobe knows when to strike,and when to dish......But he cant do it when he only plays 3 minutes in the 4th.... |
He USUALLY knows when to pass and when to shoot. Not tonight. If he did, he would have forced the ball downlow to LO who was forcing the Spurs to converge on him and either, A) foul him, B) let him score a layup, C) let him score a layup AND foul him, or C) double him and watch as he kicked to open teammates who could make a play.
If you can't see that LO was killing the Spurs during that stretch, and has CONSISTENTLY killed the Spurs anytime he's been asked to be the 1st option against them, then we may as well not even argue about it, cause your Kobe-love will not let you see the truth.
Against any other team, Kobe should be the 1st option. Against the Spurs, LO should. They simply don't have the size or athleticism to guard him. |
Don't act like you didn't watch it. Lamar was just horrible. His points came from open dunks or threes. He couldn't do anything .Kobe was very very passive in the fourth quarter . |
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P.K. Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 29641
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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TEEGUNN wrote: | P.K. wrote: |
it's not going to matter much.
in the playoffs vs. the Spurs it's 4 & done
vs. the Suns it's probably 4 & done, although they might get lucky & steal 1 |
Yup. Games like this show us exactly where we are really at. A bubble playoff team. We will most likely get in, barring a major injury, but that's about as far as we will get. |
That's kind of the problem with being a bottom rung playoff team - you face the best teams & get destroyed in the playoffs.
still, being in the playoffs is probably somewhat better then being the #9 or #10 team in the conference. at 9 or 10, you're probably not moving up in the lottery so the picks are about the same, and teams that are perpetually just out of the playoffs (9 or 10) seem to develop the defeatist attitude _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Shutup KtotheBryant8.
Kobe had a bad game. People have the right to talk about it. Lamar didn't play up to par either, missed a lot of shots he normally makes. People have the right to talk about it.
One thing I know...when Lamar has 6 TOs, people go insane with blame. When Kobe has that many, and he has had far more games with 5+ TOs than Lamar, hardly a word.
Still, we have to bounce back. I know both Kobe and Lamar will. |
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nesli Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
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KtotheBryant8 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 182
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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critical_beatdown wrote: | Shutup KtotheBryant8.
Kobe had a bad game. People have the right to talk about it. Lamar didn't play up to par either, missed a lot of shots he normally makes. People have the right to talk about it.
One thing I know...when Lamar has 6 TOs, people go insane with blame. When Kobe has that many, and he has had far more games with 5+ TOs than Lamar, hardly a word.
Still, we have to bounce back. I know both Kobe and Lamar will. |
yea we do have a right to talk about it.... but what NBA team are you on again? i forgot... or which team are you coaching? and its the same after every loss... and some wins... lets talk (bleep) about kobe lamar smush kwame or phil jackson and afetr every loss you get to hear how everyone would "coach" the game when they probably havent even played basketball before or how they would approach the game if they were kobe its (bleep) stunted...especially when people dont know the difference between watchign a gae and sayign in your mind that this is what id do and actually being able to do it in a game _________________ Why claim to be a fan if you're not going to support your team? |
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magic_bryant Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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nesli wrote: | I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
But there was no need for him to shoot those shots. Let LO keep getting the ball and let him pick the D apart. We got back into the game by letting LO post up, and Luke driving the ball. Kobe comes in and the entire offense changes instantly. Some of that is on Kobe, some of it is on the players' fear of Kobe. They have to be willing to say "no" to Kobe when he wants the ball. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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TEEGUNN Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 18086 Location: rocky mountain high
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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critical_beatdown wrote: | Shutup KtotheBryant8.
Kobe had a bad game. People have the right to talk about it. Lamar didn't play up to par either, missed a lot of shots he normally makes. People have the right to talk about it.
One thing I know...when Lamar has 6 TOs, people go insane with blame. When Kobe has that many, and he has had far more games with 5+ TOs than Lamar, hardly a word.
Still, we have to bounce back. I know both Kobe and Lamar will. |
Lets just stop talking about it. It's over. Neither Kobe nor Lamar had good games. Kobe is going to have a lot more turnovers by default via having the ball in his hands so much and being doubled so much. Lamar has played very well since the all-star break. I don't think anyone is denying that. His value has grown in my estimation. I still think he is overpaid, but I'd really like to keep the guy. Same for Kwame, who is making big strides right now. Even if his offense is raw, he can D up any big in this league. Yes - he needs to improve his help defense and shot blocking, but I want to keep the guy.
I can say that I am tired of the microscope Kobe and others are held to. These guys are human too, and Kobe has as big a burden on his shoulders as any other player in the L. This was Kobe's worst game in quite a while. Let's hope he comes back strong tommorrow night. Same for Lamar. _________________ "Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
Jake Speed, 1986 |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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TEEGUNN wrote: | critical_beatdown wrote: | Shutup KtotheBryant8.
Kobe had a bad game. People have the right to talk about it. Lamar didn't play up to par either, missed a lot of shots he normally makes. People have the right to talk about it.
One thing I know...when Lamar has 6 TOs, people go insane with blame. When Kobe has that many, and he has had far more games with 5+ TOs than Lamar, hardly a word.
Still, we have to bounce back. I know both Kobe and Lamar will. |
Lets just stop talking about it. It's over. Neither Kobe nor Lamar had good games. Kobe is going to have a lot more turnovers by default via having the ball in his hands so much and being doubled so much. Lamar has played very well since the all-star break. I don't think anyone is denying that. His value has grown in my estimation. I still think he is overpaid, but I'd really like to keep the guy. Same for Kwame, who is making big strides right now. Even if his offense is raw, he can D up any big in this league. Yes - he needs to improve his help defense and shot blocking, but I want to keep the guy.
I can say that I am tired of the microscope Kobe and others are held to. These guys are human too, and Kobe has as big a burden on his shoulders as any other player in the L. This was Kobe's worst game in quite a while. Let's hope he comes back strong tommorrow night. Same for Lamar. |
Those two charging calls on Kobe were (bleep). _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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TEEGUNN Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 18086 Location: rocky mountain high
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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P.K. wrote: | TEEGUNN wrote: | P.K. wrote: |
it's not going to matter much.
in the playoffs vs. the Spurs it's 4 & done
vs. the Suns it's probably 4 & done, although they might get lucky & steal 1 |
Yup. Games like this show us exactly where we are really at. A bubble playoff team. We will most likely get in, barring a major injury, but that's about as far as we will get. |
That's kind of the problem with being a bottom rung playoff team - you face the best teams & get destroyed in the playoffs.
still, being in the playoffs is probably somewhat better then being the #9 or #10 team in the conference. at 9 or 10, you're probably not moving up in the lottery so the picks are about the same, and teams that are perpetually just out of the playoffs (9 or 10) seem to develop the defeatist attitude |
Making the playoffs is the first step. Let's hope that Buss and MK are able to continue to improve our club every offseason. Hopefully we can build a contending club around Kobe before his window closes. I'm more worried that the Lakers FO doesn't have a real plan in place right now. They are gonna swing for the fences for KG, probably strike out and have a disappointing offseason, most likely. Hopefully they can get a real PF and defensive PG this offseason. Those are our two biggest holes by far. _________________ "Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
Jake Speed, 1986 |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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KtotheBryant8 wrote: | critical_beatdown wrote: | Shutup KtotheBryant8.
Kobe had a bad game. People have the right to talk about it. Lamar didn't play up to par either, missed a lot of shots he normally makes. People have the right to talk about it.
One thing I know...when Lamar has 6 TOs, people go insane with blame. When Kobe has that many, and he has had far more games with 5+ TOs than Lamar, hardly a word.
Still, we have to bounce back. I know both Kobe and Lamar will. |
yea we do have a right to talk about it.... but what NBA team are you on again? i forgot... or which team are you coaching? and its the same after every loss... and some wins... lets talk (bleep) about kobe lamar smush kwame or phil jackson and afetr every loss you get to hear how everyone would "coach" the game when they probably havent even played basketball before or how they would approach the game if they were kobe its (bleep) stunted...especially when people dont know the difference between watchign a gae and sayign in your mind that this is what id do and actually being able to do it in a game |
Whatever. You do realize people come here to talk basketball and Lakers, right? |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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nesli wrote: | I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
Yes, he didn't. The game was already lost when he 'forced' his shots. Infact, when we were only down by 11, Odom 'forced' a three-point shot. _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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Supa Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 2210
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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San Antonio made Kobe look bad in that 4th quarter. They seemed to turn it up when he came in. Kobe didn't attempt a shot for over two minutes until Horry hit that three and made the lead 92-79. Kobe tried to get it back with a three, which is something he usually does in these situations, but missed. Then he turned it over trying to drive and kick it back to George on the next possession.
All the while Steve Kerr was pilling on Kobe, even blaming him for Odom being hesistant on one of his three point attempts. Then he later went on to talk about how he came in and jacked up shots which ruined their run they were making without him. How they haven't been able to mesh Kobe's game with the rest of the team all season.
Their may be some truth to that, but lately their success has been because of the opposite. |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Somebody does need to send a message to the league about those charging fouls. I don't mind a legit charging foul, but I'm starting to get the idea that the refs aren't even paying attention to when a guy leaves his feet anymore, and are just seeing if the defensive player is set when contact is made. That is not the rule as I understand it. The defensive player must be set BEFORE the offensive player LEAVES HIS FEET. |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Supa wrote: | San Antonio made Kobe look bad in that 4th quarter. They seemed to turn it up when he came in. Kobe didn't attempt a shot for over two minutes until Horry hit that three and made the lead 92-79. Kobe tried to get it back with a three, which is something he usually does in these situations, but missed. Then he turned it over trying to drive and kick it back to George on the next possession.
All the while Steve Kerr was pilling on Kobe, even blaming him for Odom being hesistant on one of his three point attempts. Then he later went on to talk about how he came in and jacked up shots which ruined their run they were making without him. How they haven't been able to mesh Kobe's game with the rest of the team all season.
Their may be some truth to that, but lately their success has been because of the opposite. |
Kerr is an idiot. The game was lost because of more than a couple of turnovers. _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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eniq 0x00 wrote: | nesli wrote: | I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
Yes, he didn't. The game was already lost when he 'forced' his shots. Infact, when we were only down by 11, Odom 'forced' a three-point shot. |
If a wide open 3 point shot that Lamar even hesitated on taking at first is "forcing" a shot, I guess you're right. |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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eniq 0x00 wrote: | Supa wrote: | San Antonio made Kobe look bad in that 4th quarter. They seemed to turn it up when he came in. Kobe didn't attempt a shot for over two minutes until Horry hit that three and made the lead 92-79. Kobe tried to get it back with a three, which is something he usually does in these situations, but missed. Then he turned it over trying to drive and kick it back to George on the next possession.
All the while Steve Kerr was pilling on Kobe, even blaming him for Odom being hesistant on one of his three point attempts. Then he later went on to talk about how he came in and jacked up shots which ruined their run they were making without him. How they haven't been able to mesh Kobe's game with the rest of the team all season.
Their may be some truth to that, but lately their success has been because of the opposite. |
Kerr is an idiot. The game was lost because of more than a couple of turnovers. |
Kerr was actually blaming LAMAR for that. Actually, not really "blame", just pointing out that Lamar changes his game when Kobe is out there. Kerr isn't saying that Kobe has a remote control on Lamar. It's up to the guys on the floor with Kobe to assert themselves, and I realize that's a difficult task sometimes, with the kind of competitor Kobe is, and Kerr realizes that too. It's not Kobe's problem. Kobe's problem is forcing up low-percentage shots outside the offense. |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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critical_beatdown wrote: | eniq 0x00 wrote: | nesli wrote: | I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
Yes, he didn't. The game was already lost when he 'forced' his shots. Infact, when we were only down by 11, Odom 'forced' a three-point shot. |
If a wide open 3 point shot that Lamar even hesitated on taking at first is "forcing" a shot, I guess you're right. |
So, now intent matters in deciding whether or not a shot was forced? We could've had a better look. We were only down 11, we didn't need a three. It's not like we had the luxury of missing a low-percentage shot.
Edit:
Before you jump to conclusions, realize that I am not blaming Lamar for the loss; it was just one of many errors by the team. _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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fadeaway8 Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 1857
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kerr and like everyone else thinks the game was lost on the offensive end for the lakers. Thats idiotic. Lakers lost on the defensive end, always have.
With a team that doesn't play defense, you can possibly win a game by out scoring the other team, which is what a Steve Nash team will always try to do whether he's in dallas or phoenix.
But to compete with a team who plays good defense, you have to play good defense also to have a chance. And the lakers defense was awful this game. TP had his way through most of the 3 quarters, then TD took over. And in between, finley, horry, barry, ginobli hitting wide open jumpers. Thats unacceptable.
Look at the last game they played the spurs where lakers won, they played good D and out hustled the spurs on every loose ball and rebound. There's no excuse for lack of effort. And that's LO and company's fault. You can never blame kobe for lack of effort, he brings it every game.
You can a miss a shot but run back and play D and get the ball back. There's no excuse for falling asleep on defensive assignments. And how do you get LO and company to bring 100% effort every game? Well, thats the Zen Master's and his assistance job. And at the end of season, fingers will be pointed at either LO or Phil. Phil has 9 rings and screwing boss' daughter. Advantage: Phil.
Bring on KG next season. As James Worthy said, "No offense, but for Garnette. I'll trade everyone except for Kobe." |
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kobenbynum Star Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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The Spurs just out worked the Lakers and the Lakers didn't expect it after being so close at the half and then grabbing the lead at the start of the third.
They're young they'll learn.
As for Kobe's charging fouls. Bowen was still moving sideways to get in front of Kobe on one call (which is a blocking foul) but on the other he was set and Kobe just didn't see him. _________________ Mitch Kupchak is the best GM in the league!!
Hooray Mitch!!!! |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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eniq 0x00 wrote: | critical_beatdown wrote: | eniq 0x00 wrote: | nesli wrote: | I don't think kobe forced that much. He missed so many open shots he normally makes. He was very flat. |
Yes, he didn't. The game was already lost when he 'forced' his shots. Infact, when we were only down by 11, Odom 'forced' a three-point shot. |
If a wide open 3 point shot that Lamar even hesitated on taking at first is "forcing" a shot, I guess you're right. |
So, now intent matters in deciding whether or not a shot was forced? We could've had a better look. We were only down 11, we didn't need a three. It's not like we had the luxury of missing a low-percentage shot.
Edit:
Before you jump to conclusions, realize that I am not blaming Lamar for the loss; it was just one of many errors by the team. |
It was a wide open three. I mentioned Lamar's hesitation to underscore how wide open he was, since he was still wide open when he decided to shoot. Lamar has been hot from 3 lately, and since it's worth 3 points and not 2, that's a high percentage shot for us right now. When Lamar has a wide open 3, he should take it.
I never suggested you blamed the game on Lamar, so try not to read your own suspicions into posts that don't support them. |
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PhillyDoc Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 1034
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Spurs got their payback win in expected fashion and by the margin I predicted but style LAL showing promise and good luck the rest of the way! |
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