Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:14 pm Post subject: HEAT -at- LAKERS - 1-3-24 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
Below .500... Losers of 7 of last 9 heading into the game. Make that losers of 8 of their last 10 tonight as L.A. fell below .500.
The Heat went into their zone early. The Lakers looked inept at attacking it, so there was no reason to leave it. L.A. coughed up 15 first half turnovers. Half of those were in the first 7 minutes of the game. Truly inept offensive process. While a lot of teams can shoot over the top of the zone, if nothing else, that’s not the Lakers, either. They made just 3-16 from three.
They were lucky the Heat were missing some great looks at three early on, as well. The Lakers only trailed 53-45 at the half. Give credit to Austin Reaves, who has moved back into the starting lineup, and had 11 points and 6 assists to lead the team in both areas in the first half.
The coaches wanted the Lakers to be more decisive against the zone. They got that from AD and Reaves in the third. AD had 12 points in the quarter, cutting the lead to just 3 at one point after getting downhill in early offense. On defense, he had some spectacular plays. Still, with no Russell and Rui in the mix tonight, the Lakers trailed 72-67 heading into the fourth, struggling to get the offense flowing.
The Heat’s Duncan Robinson hit a series of tough threes and a drive in the fourth, giving them an answer for everything the Lakers had on the other end. L.A. fell back by double digits.
Excellent job by coach Spo neutralizing LeBron and making the Laker team “think” against the zone tonight. The Lakers have to hit their open shots, of course, but they’re also a poorly coached team at the moment. Ham knows what they need to do against the zone. Every NBA coach does. Why aren’t they doing it? If you say the team isn’t focused on the details, well, why is that?
“Kudos to them,” Ham said of the Heat. “They played a hell of a game.”
The team IQ was exposed tonight as the Lakers fell 110-96 at home by the Heat without Jimmy Butler.
LeBron -- -- With the Heat zoning up, Bron couldn’t get downhill early on. It was worse when he was out there with JHS and Christie trying to organize the offense as the team was passing the ball around the perimeter against switching defense. Just 4 points on 2-9 shooting in the first half (one was a layup off a great feed from Reaves, the other was a rare transition bucket where he got downhill and around Bam with ease). He had 8 points heading into the fourth quarter. No freethrows from Bron tonight. That was a result of not getting downhill consistently. And then you combine that with shooting blanks from three (0-6) and you have a poor game from him. We got out-coached and couldn’t get Bron playing to his strengths. The Heat neutralized him well. Just a superb job by Spo and staff and an equally poor job by Ham and staff. The Stats: He scored 12 points on 6-18 shooting to go with 6 boards, 9 assists, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 38 minutes. He was a -20.
Davis -- -- He had 12-9 in the first half and I’m not sure he touched the ball offensively for the first 4 or 5 minutes. There was a defensive sequence against Bam early in the second half where he just smothered him after multiple moves then swatted the shot. He had 5 blocks tonight. He’d get the Lakers going in the third playing in the middle of that zone and getting downhill when he could. Out of a timeout after a Laker 8-0 run where AD cut it to 3 on a drive, he swiped the lob pass in mid flight and pulled it down. He’s out there competing hard. He hammered a couple dunks early in the fourth, one an And-1 off a lob from Bron that cut it to 6 with 7 to go. He played nearly the entire second half. Huge numbers and big minutes. “Our attention to detail is not good. It’s not high enough to win basketball games right now,” AD said. He said every game in this homestand should be treated as a must-win. The Stats: He scored 29 points on 10-17 shooting (0-1 from three, 9-10 from the line) to go with 17 boards (3 offensive), 6 assists, 3 steals, 5 blocks, 5 turnovers and 2 fouls in 43 minutes. He was a -13.
Reaves -- -- He scored 7 of the Lakers first 9 and assisted on the other bucket, a great bounce pass behind a defender to LeBron for a layup. Great start from him, but everyone else was missing in action with the zone slowing the team down. Austin picked apart the zone well with the passing. He found AD under the hoop for a dunk, he got middle and hit Christie for an open corner three, and he lobbed to Wood for a dunk. Defensively, he forced Lowry into a turnover, pushed out the break and then hit AD trailing for a dunk. Efficient 11 points on 3-5 shooting and 6 assists with just 1 turnover in the first half. More consistent scoring in the second half from him. Some good work again with Bron on some two-man actions. I want him in the starting lineup. He was the guy delivering for us with consistency in the playoffs and big games last year. Just put him next to a defender to take on the primary assignments. The four guys who showed up last year in the playoffs -- AD, Bron, Rui, Reaves -- need more action together. Good to see AR getting back to 30+ minutes, at least. The Stats: He scored 24 points on 7-12 shooting (2-6 from three, 8-9 from the line) to go with 5 boards, 8 assists, 3 turnovers and 2 fouls in 36 minutes. He was a -4.
Prince -- -- Wow. Just ice cold. That killed us. He missed both wide open threes he took in the first half. He tried a harder step-back three early in the second half and missed that one, as well. He was tapped on a corner three to start the fourth. He’d miss a wide open wing three a couple minutes later and the Lakers were down 10. Got to hit those. He missed everything. Way too many minutes, but we are missing three rotation players, so it is what it is. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-6 shooting (0-5 from three) to go with 5 boards, 2 assists, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 29 minutes. He was a -14.
Reddish -- -- A turnover waiting to happen in this game. Weak cross-court passes, a push-off off ball, lost the handle on a stampede cut that looked like a likely layup, and fumbled another perimeter pass. Killing me. He needs to play hungry. Starving. Where you at, Cam? The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-1 shooting from three to go with 1 assist, 4 turnovers and 2 fouls in 19 minutes. He was a -7.
Vanderbilt -- -- He had a dunk in transition and also a nice cut down the lane off an AD post up for another finish at the rim in the first half. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-3 shooting to go with 2 boards, 2 turnovers and no fouls in 16 minutes. He was a -6.
Wood -- -- Good job battling on the offensive glass in this one, pulling down 4. He’d score on one of those in the first half. He got some buckets in the second half, getting into the paint in transition on a feed from Bron. He’d score another from Bron later. I really like the play we’ve run a couple of times now where Wood got the ball in the dunker spot and threw it up to AD diving for a dunk at the rim. They ran that out of a timeout to perfection. The minutes early in the season with Wood and AD on the floor were strong, then we went away from it. Good to see it return lately so they can build a little more chemistry. The Stats: He scored 13 points on 5-10 shooting (0-2 from three, 3-3 from the line) to go with 8 boards (4 offensive), 3 assists, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 1 foul in 23 minutes. He was a -1.
Christie -- --There has been a very strong argument to be made for putting him in the starting lineup. The team played well earlier in the season when they experimented with that. He’s a two-way player. Cam isn’t. If you just don’t make him a playmaker like we have been until recently, he’ll be fine. Give him the catch and shoot, the midrange and the close out attacks and he’s in his comfort zone. Early in the second half, he attacked a close out from the corner hand jammed over Bam with both hands. Take away one of his misses from three in this game as it was a full court heave. On a team that can’t hit a three, if you can knock down 2, I want you out there over some of these other clankers. The Stats: He scored 14 points on 5-12 shooting (2-9 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 5 boards, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a -8.
Hood-Schifino -- -- On one end you have Jaquez Jr. starting for the Heat and providing impact (including going iso against Bron late to hit a fade over him). On the other, we have JHS, drafted ahead of him, who basically can’t do much of anything right on the floor. I’m not sure I’ve seen a player so in his own head in a while. He played just a few minutes with Russell out in this one and was awful. He was blocked twice, once badly by Jaquez on what looked like it might be a sure layup for JHS. Nothing is a sure thing for him. He had an open pull-up from midrange, his bread and butter, and didn’t hit rim. Ugly. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-4 shooting to go with 2 boards and 1 foul in 5 minutes. He was a -1.
Hayes -- -- Came in for a few seconds in garbage time for AD. The Stats: He played 1 minute and had no stats. He was a +0.
Ham -- -- Key Moment: Prince missed two big threes and the Heat buried theirs in the first few minutes of the fourth quarter. You have to win those minutes with AD/Bron out there. Instead, the Lakers were back down 10 and Ham called a timeout. That miss from Prince was the Lakers 12th straight from three. The Lakers defense got steamrolled in the third quarter, giving up 38 points. Despite not having a couple key players in this game, Ham’s approach lately has been awful. I’m not sure what the mood is like with the players in the locker room right now. This is a key home stretch where they need to find themselves.
Key Substitution: Duncan Robinson was cold to start this game. missing easy looks. In the fourth quarter, he killed the Lakers, hitting some tough ones, often over decent D by AD. The basketball gods weren’t going to let the Lakers get away with a lucky first half of poor perimeter defensive process against him.
Key Stats: The turnovers and three shooting in this game was nightmarish. The Heat had a 22-9 advantage in turnovers. They are a very well coached team and can play zone for long stretches (we’re one of the worst zone teams defensively). Despite that, our process against the zone in the first half was atrocious. Three shooting the Heat made 16-42. The Lakers made 4-30 -- an impressive 13%.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8451 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:28 pm Post subject:
No energy, no pace, no initiative, no nothing. It's not like the Heat played well either.
In some ways, this was as embarrassing a loss the Lakers have had this season, considering they were at home and Jimmy Butler was out for Miami.
We shot 4-of-30 from 3-point range. Sometimes it seems we can't throw a pea in the ocean, even if we were standing in the ocean itself.
Tonight, OKC scored 138 points. Cleveland scored 140. Atlanta scored 141. Indiana scored 142. Utah scored 154 (in overtime). Even the pathetic Pistons scored 148 points.
The Lakers have arguably the best superstar duo in the NBA, and they scored only 96 points. This is becoming shades of two seasons ago. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5746 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:22 am Post subject:
slavavov wrote:
No energy, no pace, no initiative, no nothing. It's not like the Heat played well either.
In some ways, this was as embarrassing a loss the Lakers have had this season, considering they were at home and Jimmy Butler was out for Miami.
We shot 4-of-30 from 3-point range. Sometimes it seems we can't throw a pea in the ocean, even if we were standing in the ocean itself.
Tonight, OKC scored 138 points. Cleveland scored 140. Atlanta scored 141. Indiana scored 142. Utah scored 154 (in overtime). Even the pathetic Pistons scored 148 points.
The Lakers have arguably the best superstar duo in the NBA, and they scored only 96 points. This is becoming shades of two seasons ago.
Yup, just a horrible all around game. Clueless on offense, no movement and fluidity to it, turnovers galore (with the majority of those being pure sloppiness, not even ball pressure or good defense by the Heat). As it stands, this team has been unwatchable for some time now.
Gotta love how Miami's rookie, Jaquez Jr., was arguably their most impactful player. 40 minutes and by far the highest +/- at +24.
Meanwhile we're doing everything we can since the IST to minimize the impact of our players. We're pretty much the anti-Heat lately, and I'm tired of staying up late watching a supposedly good team look like the Pistons.
Feel bad for AD. Monster year and deserves a championship caliber roster.
Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 6414 Location: Past left field
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:19 am Post subject:
Everyone is standing around the perimeter passing the ball waiting for someone else to do something. Apathetic. We are going to see a lot of zone defense for the foreseeable future. _________________ Darvin Ham is an idiot!
While I agree with a lot of the doom 'n gloom going on towards our team, I have to also say that it was impressive to watch Coach Spo's team play defense as a unit.
Despite having several average-at-best defensive players on the floor throughout the game, they collectively did a fantastic job at being in the right spot a lot of times making a play in the passing lanes and on the ball during drives.
If he were our coach we'd have at least five more wins at this point of the season, no doubt.
That Jacques block on JHSzzz man, it hurt me to watch it, that was a block to the Lakers FO _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5746 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:54 am Post subject:
joeblow wrote:
While I agree with a lot of the doom 'n gloom going on towards our team, I have to also say that it was impressive to watch Coach Spo's team play defense as a unit.
Despite having several average-at-best defensive players on the floor throughout the game, they collectively did a fantastic job at being in the right spot a lot of times making a play in the passing lanes and on the ball during drives.
If he were our coach we'd have at least five more wins at this point of the season, no doubt.
They also zoned us to death because we're inept at shooting it seems. And standing still while ball-watching also makes their defense look a lot better than it probably was. The horribly sloppy passes and ball fumbles also didn't help. It was 12-1 in steals at one point.
Thanks DB for the breakdown. I’ve reduced my attention to the Lakers by just listening to them on the radio only. Unfortunately we’re going to get smoked by the Clips.
they are all still young. did they forget how to play and lost a step in the span of less than a year? the only question for vando is "is he still injured"? because he needs all his athleticism to "do his thing".
now if opposing coaches have "cracked the code" on last year's successful starting lineup, that's on OUR COACHING STAFF to counter that strike and that does NOT necessarily mean dismantling what was working. it's about EDUCATING dlo, AR, vando, etc. how to "counter the counter".
not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
PenG_ wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
i honestly haven't been watching lately... have we ever tried going back to what worked last year? dlo, reaves, vando, LBJ and AD to start?
DLO and Reaves have taken such a step back defensively that they're hemorrhaging points together. Net rating of -5.3 across 879 possessions.
And Vando's impact is a shell of what it was last year, no matter which metric one consults.
While I agree with a lot of the doom 'n gloom going on towards our team, I have to also say that it was impressive to watch Coach Spo's team play defense as a unit.
Despite having several average-at-best defensive players on the floor throughout the game, they collectively did a fantastic job at being in the right spot a lot of times making a play in the passing lanes and on the ball during drives.
If he were our coach we'd have at least five more wins at this point of the season, no doubt.
They also zoned us to death because we're inept at shooting it seems. And standing still while ball-watching also makes their defense look a lot better than it probably was. The horribly sloppy passes and ball fumbles also didn't help. It was 12-1 in steals at one point.
I somewhat agree with the first part, but disagree with the implication of the second part.
Yes, our players were just standing around a lot (especially in the first half) trying to make routine passes, but that wasn't the only thing going on. The Heat players on the court across the board were heavily focused on interfering with those routine passes as much as they possibly could.
That's why I don't agree with your next point. It wasn't simply a case of the Lakers making "horribly sloppy passes and ball fumbles". it only looked that way because Miami was forcing us to tighten up our play making.
If what you said were true, we'd be giving up 20+ turnovers a game against almost every team in the league. The Heat were uniquely intelligent in how they pressured the ball and on how they cut of the routine passing angles. You aren't giving them enough credit.
There was one sequence where our player with the ball above the key was visibly aware how often the Heat had stole the ball up to that point that he started second guessing himself. After picking up the dribble he kept scanning around looking for a "safe" pass to deliver, but had to pull back because he could see a Heat player ready to dive in between to snag the ball.
Ultimately he barely got rid of the rock and it immediately rotated next to (I think) T. Prince who hit a three at the buzzer, but the overall effect Miami's defensive approach was having on us was impressive. Yes, it also kills us when we can't make open jumpers, but it's still rare to see that level of attention to detail from an entire roster, so I give props to coach Spo as well as his team for buying into it.
Ham came back in the third quarter with some new counters that took the focus off of the primary targets a bit with extra down screens and role players like Cam diving into the paint without the ball to finish or pass it when he got the rock. Still, if we are reacting to their defensive schemes instead of us forcing them to react to our offensive schemes, then the opposing team moves the odds in their favor.
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5746 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:39 pm Post subject:
joeblow wrote:
Nobody wrote:
joeblow wrote:
While I agree with a lot of the doom 'n gloom going on towards our team, I have to also say that it was impressive to watch Coach Spo's team play defense as a unit.
Despite having several average-at-best defensive players on the floor throughout the game, they collectively did a fantastic job at being in the right spot a lot of times making a play in the passing lanes and on the ball during drives.
If he were our coach we'd have at least five more wins at this point of the season, no doubt.
They also zoned us to death because we're inept at shooting it seems. And standing still while ball-watching also makes their defense look a lot better than it probably was. The horribly sloppy passes and ball fumbles also didn't help. It was 12-1 in steals at one point.
I somewhat agree with the first part, but disagree with the implication of the second part.
Yes, our players were just standing around a lot (especially in the first half) trying to make routine passes, but that wasn't the only thing going on. The Heat players on the court across the board were heavily focused on interfering with those routine passes as much as they possibly could.
That's why I don't agree with your next point. It wasn't simply a case of the Lakers making "horribly sloppy passes and ball fumbles". it only looked that way because Miami was forcing us to tighten up our play making.
If what you said were true, we'd be giving up 20+ turnovers a game against almost every team in the league. The Heat were uniquely intelligent in how they pressured the ball and on how they cut of the routine passing angles. You aren't giving them enough credit.
There was one sequence where our player with the ball above the key was visibly aware how often the Heat had stole the ball up to that point that he started second guessing himself. After picking up the dribble he kept scanning around looking for a "safe" pass to deliver, but had to pull back because he could see a Heat player ready to dive in between to snag the ball.
Ultimately he barely got rid of the rock and it immediately rotated next to (I think) T. Prince who hit a three at the buzzer, but the overall effect Miami's defensive approach was having on us was impressive. Yes, it also kills us when we can't make open jumpers, but it's still rare to see that level of attention to detail from an entire roster, so I give props to coach Spo as well as his team for buying into it.
Ham came back in the third quarter with some new counters that took the focus off of the primary targets a bit with extra down screens and role players like Cam diving into the paint without the ball to finish or pass it when he got the rock. Still, if we are reacting to their defensive schemes instead of us forcing them to react to our offensive schemes, then the opposing team moves the odds in their favor.
Fair points. And kudos to the Heat. I guess I was too focused on all the bad things the Lakers did and neglected to sufficiently notice the opponent's good play.
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-- With the Heat zoning up, Bron couldn’t get downhill early on. It was worse when he was out there with JHS and Christie trying to organize the offense as the team was passing the ball around the perimeter against switching defense. Just 4 points on 2-9 shooting in the first half (one was a layup off a great feed from Reaves, the other was a rare transition bucket where he got downhill and around Bam with ease). He had 8 points heading into the fourth quarter. No freethrows from Bron tonight. That was a result of not getting downhill consistently. And then you combine that with shooting blanks from three (0-6) and you have a poor game from him. We got out-coached and couldn’t get Bron playing to his strengths. The Heat neutralized him well. Just a superb job by Spo and staff and an equally poor job by Ham and staff. 
-- He had 12-9 in the first half and I’m not sure he touched the ball offensively for the first 4 or 5 minutes. There was a defensive sequence against Bam early in the second half where he just smothered him after multiple moves then swatted the shot. He had 5 blocks tonight. He’d get the Lakers going in the third playing in the middle of that zone and getting downhill when he could. Out of a timeout after a Laker 8-0 run where AD cut it to 3 on a drive, he swiped the lob pass in mid flight and pulled it down. He’s out there competing hard. He hammered a couple dunks early in the fourth, one an And-1 off a lob from Bron that cut it to 6 with 7 to go. He played nearly the entire second half. Huge numbers and big minutes. “Our attention to detail is not good. It’s not high enough to win basketball games right now,” AD said. He said every game in this homestand should be treated as a must-win. 
-- He scored 7 of the Lakers first 9 and assisted on the other bucket, a great bounce pass behind a defender to LeBron for a layup. Great start from him, but everyone else was missing in action with the zone slowing the team down. Austin picked apart the zone well with the passing. He found AD under the hoop for a dunk, he got middle and hit Christie for an open corner three, and he lobbed to Wood for a dunk. Defensively, he forced Lowry into a turnover, pushed out the break and then hit AD trailing for a dunk. Efficient 11 points on 3-5 shooting and 6 assists with just 1 turnover in the first half. More consistent scoring in the second half from him. Some good work again with Bron on some two-man actions. I want him in the starting lineup. He was the guy delivering for us with consistency in the playoffs and big games last year. Just put him next to a defender to take on the primary assignments. The four guys who showed up last year in the playoffs -- AD, Bron, Rui, Reaves -- need more action together. Good to see AR getting back to 30+ minutes, at least. 
-- A turnover waiting to happen in this game. Weak cross-court passes, a push-off off ball, lost the handle on a stampede cut that looked like a likely layup, and fumbled another perimeter pass. Killing me. He needs to play hungry. Starving. Where you at, Cam? 
-- He had a dunk in transition and also a nice cut down the lane off an AD post up for another finish at the rim in the first half. 
-- Good job battling on the offensive glass in this one, pulling down 4. He’d score on one of those in the first half. He got some buckets in the second half, getting into the paint in transition on a feed from Bron. He’d score another from Bron later. I really like the play we’ve run a couple of times now where Wood got the ball in the dunker spot and threw it up to AD diving for a dunk at the rim. They ran that out of a timeout to perfection. The minutes early in the season with Wood and AD on the floor were strong, then we went away from it. Good to see it return lately so they can build a little more chemistry. 
--There has been a very strong argument to be made for putting him in the starting lineup. The team played well earlier in the season when they experimented with that. He’s a two-way player. Cam isn’t. If you just don’t make him a playmaker like we have been until recently, he’ll be fine. Give him the catch and shoot, the midrange and the close out attacks and he’s in his comfort zone. Early in the second half, he attacked a close out from the corner hand jammed over Bam with both hands. Take away one of his misses from three in this game as it was a full court heave. On a team that can’t hit a three, if you can knock down 2, I want you out there over some of these other clankers. 
-- On one end you have Jaquez Jr. starting for the Heat and providing impact (including going iso against Bron late to hit a fade over him). On the other, we have JHS, drafted ahead of him, who basically can’t do much of anything right on the floor. I’m not sure I’ve seen a player so in his own head in a while. He played just a few minutes with Russell out in this one and was awful. He was blocked twice, once badly by Jaquez on what looked like it might be a sure layup for JHS. Nothing is a sure thing for him. He had an open pull-up from midrange, his bread and butter, and didn’t hit rim. Ugly. 
-- Came in for a few seconds in garbage time for AD. 
-- Key Moment: Prince missed two big threes and the Heat buried theirs in the first few minutes of the fourth quarter. You have to win those minutes with AD/Bron out there. Instead, the Lakers were back down 10 and Ham called a timeout. That miss from Prince was the Lakers 12th straight from three. The Lakers defense got steamrolled in the third quarter, giving up 38 points. Despite not having a couple key players in this game, Ham’s approach lately has been awful. I’m not sure what the mood is like with the players in the locker room right now. This is a key home stretch where they need to find themselves.
