That starting line up worked great last year. Other than Vando's health, not sure why we went away from it. Let Rui be the big scorer off the bench and then Gabe also does his thing. Not to mention Wood can get going.
Mins:
AD (32), Wood (16)
LeBron (30), Rui (18)
Vando (22), Prince (16), Rui (10)
AR (34), Reddish (14)
D'Lo (26), Gabe (22)
Although I would like to see AD, LeBron, and Wood all play together for stretches. Potnetially closing some games.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144476 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:12 am Post subject:
That’s tough, I want Vanderbilt defensively but he is God awful offensively. We really have only one PG so do you play without one? Prince is a top 3 point shooter and the team sucks at everything to do with shooting 3 pointers so you pretty much have to play him. I didn’t like the offseason moves and they don’t leave much for experimentation. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
At this point, I don't know if it's the lineup, the coach, or the players. Something is causing this team to settle around .500 and consistently disappoint. We can't blame Lebron's age; he's been playing well. We can't blame AD's lack of fire, he's been playing very well. We can't even really blame injuries. We had a good run in the playoffs last season, and we won the tournament this season, so maybe it's not Mr. Ham or the players. It must be the lineup.
No freaking Vanderbilt. Dude needs to rot on the bench until he proves he can shoot. One of the most useless offensive players in the league forcing us to play 4 vs 5 and he is even worse this year than last year.
Starters (When Healthy)
James
Reddish
Prince
Hachimura
Davis
We don't do hockey subs so I don't think it makes sense to look at starting lineups & 2nd teams.
According to 82games.com, the Lakers' original starters of Russell/Reaves/Prince/James/Davis had a +7 net rating. Let's try that again. Part of the issue early on was that we weren't getting enough offense to justify the meh defense. But now the shooters are hitting shots, so maybe we can outgun them.
If Davis is hitting 3s, I'd also be ok running Vanderbilt or Reddish instead of Russell or Reaves (probably Reaves) with the caveat that they MUST build actions to mitigate these players being ignored on defense. Like let's run some hammer screens to get Prince an open corner 3, or Reaves an open wing 3, etc.
I'm also fine running Christie in the starting lineup in place of Reaves. That group was +23 in 70 minutes against opposing starters. I would run Christie in literally no other lineup, because it only works when Christie is 3&D, as opposed to a second playmaker. He has been comically terrible in the role as secondary or primary playmaker.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8386 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:25 am Post subject:
How about we try this starting lineup:
DLo, Prince, Vando, LeBron, Ad
I know Vando is horrible offensively, but we don't need him to be great either. Forget about him hitting threes. Use him as a screener and a cutter and have him set picks away from the ball to free others. He just needs to find a way to contribute. Against the Celtics he was 3-of-5 and had no turnovers. That's acceptable, I guess.
If/when Vando is being horrible on offense to the point of hurting the team, take him out instantly, like coach Ham did in last season's playoffs.
I like the idea of establishing the tone defensively and with our fast break (which is honestly our bread and butter offensively), then being able to sub in Reaves and Rui to help boost our offense. From this point on, Ham has to have a much quicker leash early in games rather than trusting this team as if he's Phil Jackson during our championship seasons. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
We're a middle of the road team. They they change line ups all season long. I don't think it will matter.
This. Solve one issue, expose another. Here is how it's shaping up:
Top 6-8 teams: Win 20% of the time, maybe on an LBJ/AD superstar performance
Middle-tier teams: Win 50% of the time depending on starters/units/schemes/freshness/injuries
Lower tier teams: Win 70% of the time
I know Vando is horrible offensively, but we don't need him to be great either. Forget about him hitting threes. Use him as a screener and a cutter and have him set picks away from the ball to free others. He just needs to find a way to contribute. Against the Celtics he was 3-of-5 and had no turnovers. That's acceptable, I guess.
If/when Vando is being horrible on offense to the point of hurting the team, take him out instantly, like coach Ham did in last season's playoffs.
I like the idea of establishing the tone defensively and with our fast break (which is honestly our bread and butter offensively), then being able to sub in Reaves and Rui to help boost our offense. From this point on, Ham has to have a much quicker leash early in games rather than trusting this team as if he's Phil Jackson during our championship seasons.
I would agree with this if you switch DLo with AR. And if Mr. Ham insists on AR doing the Ginobli thing, then I start Max Christie. Any lineup with Vando starting in it will need some compensation on offense, and if DLo doesn't hit his first 3 shots, he becomes a legit liability.
We're a middle of the road team. They they change line ups all season long. I don't think it will matter.
We were that last season and we made some noise in the playoffs. I would say our team is much better than last season, so with the right rotation, we can actually be a threat. I don't care so much about being .500. Look at the Clippers. They were way below .500, came up with a 9 game winning streak and now they're close to being #2 in the west.
AR-Cam/Vando-Rui-Bron-AD open and close _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“
AD is a non-shooter now. You can't get away with Vando and AD. Let alone Vandy, AD and Reddish. That's 3 non-shooters in the eyes of the opponent.
Any lineup that has AD and Lebron, needs to have 3 decent/respectable 3 point shooters in it. Because AD is a not seen as a 3 point shooting threat.
It seems quite obvious even based on the 3 point shooting statistics.
Our best percentage shooters are:
Prince
DLO
Rui
Reaves
3 of the above 4, should always be part of a AD (who doesn't pose a threat from outside to defenses) and Lebron lineup.
It's not that complicated, but for some reason, we are making it.
If we want Lebron back at PG, simple. Don't start DLO. Have Reaves in at 2, Rui plays the 4 with Prince at 3. AD is your 5 on offense. Defensively you switch it up based on best match ups.
When AD sits, since he's your MVP defensively, you sub in Vando. He's a non-shooting theat in, subbed for a non-shooting threat. Bron can come back in as a wing, after starting as a PG. This is what he did with Rondo.
AD/Vandy
Rui/Bron
Prince/Bron
Austin/Christie or Reddish (for a few spot minutes)
Bron/DLO
With our injuries and Christie or Reddish showing he can shoot the ball well, you may need to run a 8 man rotation right now. Prince has to go from 3/2. Lebron has to go from the 1 to 4. AD and Vandy tag team (can't really play them together as both don't pose a threat from outside).
You can't be a respectable team on offense playing Reddish, Christie, Vandy types a lot of minutes. This is just bad decision making by the coaching staff. We have to value both sides of the ball, not just one.
I'll change mine to DLo, AR, Rui, Lebron and AD. Plenty of offense. And they should all (as NBA professionals) be able to play a competent level of defense. If not, then it's on Mr. Ham to force them to play good defense. I'm sick and tired of the professional players making millions per season not fulfilling even the most basic of skill sets like making wide open shots and staying on ball or rotating properly on defense. This isn't high school, these guys got to the NBA by being the best of the best. Nobody should have to tell players like DLo to stay on his man, grab a rebound, or take more mid-range shots.
AD is a non-shooter now. You can't get away with Vando and AD. Let alone Vandy, AD and Reddish. That's 3 non-shooters in the eyes of the opponent.
Any lineup that has AD and Lebron, needs to have 3 decent/respectable 3 point shooters in it. Because AD is a not seen as a 3 point shooting threat.
It seems quite obvious even based on the 3 point shooting statistics.
Our best percentage shooters are:
Prince
DLO
Rui
Reaves
3 of the above 4, should always be part of a AD (who doesn't pose a threat from outside to defenses) and Lebron lineup.
It's not that complicated, but for some reason, we are making it.
If we want Lebron back at PG, simple. Don't start DLO. Have Reaves in at 2, Rui plays the 4 with Prince at 3. AD is your 5 on offense. Defensively you switch it up based on best match ups.
When AD sits, since he's your MVP defensively, you sub in Vando. He's a non-shooting theat in, subbed for a non-shooting threat. Bron can come back in as a wing, after starting as a PG. This is what he did with Rondo.
AD/Vandy
Rui/Bron
Prince/Bron
Austin/Christie or Reddish (for a few spot minutes)
Bron/DLO
With our injuries and Christie or Reddish showing he can shoot the ball well, you may need to run a 8 man rotation right now. Prince has to go from 3/2. Lebron has to go from the 1 to 4. AD and Vandy tag team (can't really play them together as both don't pose a threat from outside).
You can't be a respectable team on offense playing Reddish, Christie, Vandy types a lot of minutes. This is just bad decision making by the coaching staff. We have to value both sides of the ball, not just one.
That is a really slow and not very good defensive 5. They will also struggle to rebound at times. Its just a low energy 5. The truth is no matter what line up we throw out there, we will have big holes.
The starting lineup is the one that is actually proven to win.
Starters:
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Jarred Vanderbilt
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
Bench:
Gabe Vincent / JHS
Cam Reddish / Max Christie
Taurean Prince / D'Moi Hodge
Rui Hachimura / Maxwell Lewis
Christian Wood / Jaxson Hayes / Colin Castleton
There's your deep enough bench lineup to go with the starters.
Starter roles: DLO the primary point guard, Reaves, LBJ as your secondary playmakers while people cut to the basket, Vando and AD making up for defensive mistakes, LBJ and AD as your primary scoring options, DLO and Reaves as your secondary, Vando for corner threes.
Bench roles: Rui Hachimura, Gabe Vincent, Christian Wood as your primary 6th man offensive scorers, Prince as your primary three point shooter, Reddish for his defense and athleticism, Gabe for his defense and occasional burst of offense.
You'd think this was obvious, obvious to everyone but the guy getting paid to make these decisions. If we actually utilized the weapons we have, our bench would be one of the deadliest in the league. But alas, we've got another "stubborn" coach that doesn't want to do what is obvious and what was ALREADY SHOWN to work last year. We replaced Mo Bamba with a center that has proven to be a 17-20 ppg scorer as a starter coming off the bench for ANTHONY DAVIS and we're NOT using him!
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