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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
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 Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:44 am Post subject: New direction |
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First of all, for those crediting Pelinka with the 2020 championship, let me ask you this. If Lebron wasn't on the team which would most likely mean AD wouldn't be a Laker either, do you think we would still be sitting here today with 17 championships with Lonzo Bust and Ingram? 'Nuff said.
If Magic didn't resign, he might still be our GM today. Scary thought! Tbh, Pelinka isn't much different from Magic and Jim. If you take away Lebron (and AD), we would most likely be like the 76ers today. With a franchise player in BI but playing for 2nd round playoff exit.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. As long as Jeanie remains the Lakers owner, Laker fans should lower expectations going into every season. It's no longer championship or bust. It's "2nd round playoff is good enough". Forget about beating our rivals, Foston and Clippers. Keep empowering our FO by saying stuffs like "we've won a championship and we're the IST champs" so you can enjoy the current brand of Lakers basketball.
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024
Last edited by lakersfever714 on Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 44111
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| 18 championships |
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12061
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | 18 championships |
Actually 19 championships if ur counting the 1948 championship and the IST championship. Oooh yay, go Lakers!
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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lakers4life78
Star Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1985
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Done with this era. Lebron as good as he is is just old. Not going to bring it every night. Teams have young stars. Talent level up around league. Lakers are kicking it with a 39 year old guy and hyping JAGs and league min guys. AD is great but it’s not enough. Very boring team to watch. Last year’s playoff run was a flukish and a one off. Not going to get lucky matchups again.
People want to keep throwing good money after bad. Zach Lavine now is our savior? C’mon man. Hire Doc Rivers?
Also lol at comparing BI to Embiid by OP. Embiid going for second mvp. BI will never sniff an MVP.
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17 time World Champions |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12061
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| lakers4life78 wrote: | Done with this era. Lebron as good as he is is just old. Not going to bring it every night. Teams have young stars. Talent level up around league. Lakers are kicking it with a 39 year old guy and hyping JAGs and league min guys. AD is great but it’s not enough. Very boring team to watch. Last year’s playoff run was a flukish and a one off. Not going to get lucky matchups again.
People want to keep throwing good money after bad. Zach Lavine now is our savior? C’mon man. Hire Doc Rivers?
Also lol at comparing BI to Embiid by OP. Embiid going for second mvp. BI will never sniff an MVP. |
That's why I advocate for a complete rebuild getting as much assets as possible for AD while he's playing like an MVP rn. We simply don't have the assets in order to build a genuine championship contender around AD anymore.
What we need most is a smart GM like Presti in order to make good use of the assets from AD trade. The CBA dis-incentivizes superstars from leaving their teams so we should never count on that. We could only rebuild thru the draft and "hope" for draft steals like Giannis and Kawhi.
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4580
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: Re: New direction |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | First of all, for those crediting Pelinka with the 2020 championship, let me ask you this. If Lebron wasn't on the team which would most likely mean AD wouldn't be a Laker either, do you think we would still be sitting here today with 17 championships with Lonzo Bust and Ingram? 'Nuff said.
If Magic didn't resign, he might still be our GM today. Scary thought! Tbh, Pelinka isn't much different from Magic and Jim. If you take away Lebron (and AD), we would most likely be like the 76ers today. With a franchise player in BI but playing for 2nd round playoff exit.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. As long as Jeanie remains the Lakers owner, Laker fans should lower expectations going into every season. It's no longer championship or bust. It's "2nd round playoff is good enough". Forget about beating our rivals, Foston and Clippers. Keep empowering our FO by saying stuffs like "we've won a championship and we're the IST champs" so you can enjoy the current brand of Lakers basketball. |
Without LBJ and AD there could have been other free agent additions plus the draft picks that possibly could have been Garland/Bane. You can’t just subtract LBJ/AD without adding what could have been without them. At this point we may have been better off sticking with Jim/Mitch and could very well been in position for a dynasty run.
Zubac/TBryant
Randle/Nance
Ingram/Hart
Dlo/Clarkson
Fox
Could even still have LBJ with that as a free agent. Plus Garland/Bane, the 1st rounder last year (hopefully not Fino), and the next 1st rounder with possible free agents. Perhaps West/DavidGriffith/Lue with LBJ.
Still, I agree with you, we’re not likely to win a ship with the current philosophy of those in charge. We can’t seem to synchronize good coaching at the same time with good roster construction and willingness to pay. One or more of those have failed the Lakers ship run 4 of the last 5 years and it looks like this could be the 6th.
I’m not saying I’d prefer that, just frustrated with the org/team at the moment.
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“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:36 am Post subject: Re: New direction |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | First of all, for those crediting Pelinka with the 2020 championship, let me ask you this. If Lebron wasn't on the team which would most likely mean AD wouldn't be a Laker either, do you think we would still be sitting here today with 17 championships with Lonzo Bust and Ingram? 'Nuff said. |
If we hadn't signed Lebron and traded for AD, I don't assume the roster today would be the same roster we had in 2017-18.
I mean, if we hadn't signed Lebron, we would still be allowed to make trades and sign free agents, so it's anyone's guess what the roster would be today and what success they would have had over the past 6 years. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144581
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:57 am Post subject: |
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The criticism of Jeanie is valid, I’m sure that she wants to win but she seems afraid to do what is right. She only believes in her small circle of friends, that is how we ended up with Magic and Pelinka. It would shock me if she reaches out to actual basketball executives.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Zo's definitely not a bust. Look at Chicago's fall from grace without him. Ingram had to go, unfortunately. He was the main piece in the AD deal. My issue is they pissed away too much draft capital. So dumb of me to think they could have kept Zu and a few other pieces. Even Mo Wagner is balling in Orlando. They weren't smart in asset management, so Rob took on other team's cast offs and projects to compensate. AR is a nice player but they need some kind of youth movement to bolster AD and Bron. I think Rui has potential but Ham doesn't know how to utilize him.
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Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12061
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The criticism of Jeanie is valid, I’m sure that she wants to win but she seems afraid to do what is right. She only believes in her small circle of friends, that is how we ended up with Magic and Pelinka. It would shock me if she reaches out to actual basketball executives. |
She put trust above actual talent. I wonder after Magic and Pelinka, how many more "trustworthy" friends she's got left?
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17140
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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nothing can be done while Bron is still here for better or worse. He needs the ball. He doesn't easily give up the ball. We are at a place that we need to build around protecting him. We need a legit PG, but that type of player will be neutered with him.
we have to ride this thing out and hope for a miracle. We have zero assets outside of reaves and a pick.
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10557
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | nothing can be done while Bron is still here for better or worse. He needs the ball. He doesn't easily give up the ball. We are at a place that we need to build around protecting him. We need a legit PG, but that type of player will be neutered with him.
we have to ride this thing out and hope for a miracle. We have zero assets outside of reaves and a pick. |
Meh. He's been one of the most proficient off ball scorers in the league. This year he's shooting 47.9% on catch and shoot threes and leads the league in PPG off cuts.
LeBron's only true flaw was wanting Russ so badly that he "neutered" his chances to win another ring in LA. Russ is a "legit PG" if he's practically free surrounded by two way wings. |
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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AD has been really good the last year... going 78 for 82 games is super impressive from him from a health standpoint and he's played really well this season.
But as I said when it happens, it was still way too much when we could have used Bron's and Klutch's influence to get him for free the following year.
People love to point out Ingram and Zo's injury woes but that's the only thing that saved the deal from complete catastrophe.
They love to point out that their cost control periods were coming to a close so we couldn't have signed them anyway but so what, at least we'd have time to think and maximize the value of each player as the cost control ran out.
We would have had BI, Zo, Hart, Garland, picks, and no pick swap bullsh*t
We would likely have never done the Westbrook trade without that deal because we would have had depth.
It's not that AD isn't better than Ingram... he is.
It's that AD wasn't worth getting rid of all those assets when we could have just waited a year and had him for free.
Look what Andrew Friedman did. He didn't have Mookie and Freddie in his ear telling him to trade their entire farm system for Ohtani.
He waited, took enormous risk divesting all star quality players like Seager and Trea Turner to clear space and won the long game against all the GMs
Ohtani could still be a bust for 700 million, we could still not win for the next five years... but Friedman didn't do something panicky to acquire him.
LBJ and Klutch forced us into this bad, impatient deal.
There would be no guarantees we would win that way.
Yes we could have lost the bubble title.
But we would have had so many more assets that way.
If Boston wins this year, we went through all that sh*t for no reason because we are back to square one before we started this process. |
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Polarbear
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 4:25 am Post subject: Re: New direction |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | First of all, for those crediting Pelinka with the 2020 championship, let me ask you this. If Lebron wasn't on the team which would most likely mean AD wouldn't be a Laker either, do you think we would still be sitting here today with 17 championships with Lonzo Bust and Ingram? 'Nuff said.
If Magic didn't resign, he might still be our GM today. Scary thought! Tbh, Pelinka isn't much different from Magic and Jim. If you take away Lebron (and AD), we would most likely be like the 76ers today. With a franchise player in BI but playing for 2nd round playoff exit.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. As long as Jeanie remains the Lakers owner, Laker fans should lower expectations going into every season. It's no longer championship or bust. It's "2nd round playoff is good enough". Forget about beating our rivals, Foston and Clippers. Keep empowering our FO by saying stuffs like "we've won a championship and we're the IST champs" so you can enjoy the current brand of Lakers basketball. |
You’re talking about second round exits, but we literally just made it to the Western Conference finals what the (bleep) are you smoking? |
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Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:16 am Post subject: Re: New direction |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | First of all, for those crediting Pelinka with the 2020 championship, let me ask you this. If Lebron wasn't on the team which would most likely mean AD wouldn't be a Laker either, do you think we would still be sitting here today with 17 championships with Lonzo Bust and Ingram? 'Nuff said.
If Magic didn't resign, he might still be our GM today. Scary thought! Tbh, Pelinka isn't much different from Magic and Jim. If you take away Lebron (and AD), we would most likely be like the 76ers today. With a franchise player in BI but playing for 2nd round playoff exit.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. As long as Jeanie remains the Lakers owner, Laker fans should lower expectations going into every season. It's no longer championship or bust. It's "2nd round playoff is good enough". Forget about beating our rivals, Foston and Clippers. Keep empowering our FO by saying stuffs like "we've won a championship and we're the IST champs" so you can enjoy the current brand of Lakers basketball. |
You’re talking about second round exits, but we literally just made it to the Western Conference finals what the (bleep) are you smoking? |
True, but can they replicate it? They did get swept, which in some ways is worse than not making it all. Lakers don't pride themselves on WCF banners. Making it that far only to lose would be unacceptable to Kobe, and he worked even harder the following seasons and held everyone accountable. I don't see any of that here, unfortunately. These dudes called it a season after the IST, which is disgraceful to the Laker standard. Can AD and Bron be leaders who get on teammates for missing defensive assignments or closeouts? If Lebron can't set an example on defense, it may be time to move on from him.
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Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21573
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | 18 championships |
Actually 19 championships if ur counting the 1948 championship and the IST championship. Oooh yay, go Lakers! |
Don’t forget the moral victory championship of 2023 |
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