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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22379
Location: Brazil
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
I'd venture to guess she knows more than many owners including Balmer, Benson, Kronke, etc. I mean she's been a Laker for what, 40 years?
Thing is, she doesn't need to know jack about basketball. All she needs to be able to do as an owner is identify the right organization structures and people do run things at the highest level. She's insulated herself to former Lakers/friends/family. Magic, Pelinka, Kurt, Phil.. I mean even have Ham has some ties to the Lakers. Magic was the GOAT point. Phil the GOAT coach. Pelinka a power agent. Kurt a Laker for life. But are those guys the op guys to run an organization? Hell no.
Since she loved Kobe's GOT apology -- she's a Targaryan with 12 full grown dragons and the biggest army but in her council is the 3 stooges. Like, open your eyes and see this isn't working. See that getting into bed with Klutch is no longer serving you but you're serving them. See how mismanaged our roster is and the terrible balance. She we keep going after players with injury history. See that every summer is a completely new approach.
Even if she can't identify the kind of players we need, at least identify the organizations that seem to be doing things right and try and steal those people. |
I agree with you. That's why I'm worried about this ball club.
She's simply not making the right calls |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26389
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Extremely so. But I think the fact we have a First Round Draft Pick in 2023 is a good thing.
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | How long do we complain about health before we realize that bringing in players with poor health histories enable injury? Lebron didn’t have a history of injury and his health here has been a surprise. No one is surprised that AD misses a significant number of games.
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When it's valid.
What, playing 3 seasons in 2 years during peak Covid times wasn't going to affect team health? You think the Bucks repeated their championship in 2021? Health affected them too with Middleton out vs. Boston.
Picking up players in their 30s and heading towards past their prime? Yeah, that also affects health, especially with the 3 seasons in 2 years.
It's valid.
I would consider the argument irrelevant if it was the normal 82 games per season, normal breaks, etc. It was anything but that, and some people think 2 months away from basketball is enough of a break to stay healthy for another full season + playoffs.
It's not. Even when it's regular seasons + playoffs, the best players have shorter career peaks because of it. 100+ games a season takes a toll.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | How long do we complain about health before we realize that bringing in players with poor health histories enable injury? Lebron didn’t have a history of injury and his health here has been a surprise. No one is surprised that AD misses a significant number of games.
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When it's valid.
What, playing 3 seasons in 2 years during peak Covid times wasn't going to affect team health? You think the Bucks repeated their championship in 2021? Health affected them too with Middleton out vs. Boston.
Picking up players in their 30s and heading towards past their prime? Yeah, that also affects health, especially with the 3 seasons in 2 years.
It's valid.
I would consider the argument irrelevant if it was the normal 82 games per season, normal breaks, etc. It was anything but that, and some people think 2 months away from basketball is enough of a break to stay healthy for another full season + playoffs.
It's not. Even when it's regular seasons + playoffs, the best players have shorter career peaks because of it. 100+ games a season takes a toll. |
If someone really wants evidence on that. Look at LeBron. A guy who notoriously had been mostly "injury free" for the majority of his career. Suddenly after the Bubble Run he cannot stay healthy for an extended period of time.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4449
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Why did Rob throw in all of these swaps? Would the Pelicans seriously have said no without them? |
Griffin was banking on Jeanie continuing to fail after LeBron fades and AD breakdown while Rob believed he'd land a star (Kawhi) so it wouldn't matter anyway. We got a title but had we waited one more year for AD, we could've had Garland, Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Hart, Kuzma, LeBron & AD. SO I guess you can call it a win but would waiting have been better?
That's my fear with Rob. Dude is a gun slinger and I'm convinced he practices his GM skills on 2K bc that dude is trigger happy like I've never seen. Even after the AD deal and title, if nee had just stayed pat and added around the fringes, we could've looked like Caruso, Bane, KCP, Kuz, LeBron, AD, Trez + 2022 #22 (which could've been Herb Jones) + 2021 MMLE (Nunn), 2022 TMLE (Walker).
So I guess that's the long way of saying while I feel like we've put ourselves in the situation where we HAVE TO move 1sts to try and maximize these last couple years of LBJ, perhaps showing restraint and patience in the smarter course of action. Just because we have picks coming up doesn't mean we should blow them just to try to marginally improve around Day to Davis and 20 year old Bron. If it can def result in a title - sure. Otherwise, drafting is the one thing we seem to do well so maximize that avenue. |
Waiting for AD may have worked, it may not…but I don’t understand how any Laker fan that’s been around for at least a few years could logically consider it a plausible plan considering it failed with Paul George and Kwai Leonard the two years in a row just prior to the proposed plan of “waiting” for AD. It just doesn’t make sense to have tried that again.
I think we overpaid for AD. I would gladly trade AD and the championship for Ingram/Hart/Ball and the draft pics then roll with the results going from the 2019/2020 season forward.
I would not expect however to have AD and the young core. The Pelicans were gonna deal AD regardless to someone else to keep from losing him for nothing even if whoever they dealt him to would overpay like us or not. I don’t think AD would have been available for us to just sign. We tried that with PG and KwL and it just didn’t work. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26389
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Why did Rob throw in all of these swaps? Would the Pelicans seriously have said no without them? |
Griffin was banking on Jeanie continuing to fail after LeBron fades and AD breakdown while Rob believed he'd land a star (Kawhi) so it wouldn't matter anyway. We got a title but had we waited one more year for AD, we could've had Garland, Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Hart, Kuzma, LeBron & AD. SO I guess you can call it a win but would waiting have been better?
That's my fear with Rob. Dude is a gun slinger and I'm convinced he practices his GM skills on 2K bc that dude is trigger happy like I've never seen. Even after the AD deal and title, if nee had just stayed pat and added around the fringes, we could've looked like Caruso, Bane, KCP, Kuz, LeBron, AD, Trez + 2022 #22 (which could've been Herb Jones) + 2021 MMLE (Nunn), 2022 TMLE (Walker).
So I guess that's the long way of saying while I feel like we've put ourselves in the situation where we HAVE TO move 1sts to try and maximize these last couple years of LBJ, perhaps showing restraint and patience in the smarter course of action. Just because we have picks coming up doesn't mean we should blow them just to try to marginally improve around Day to Davis and 20 year old Bron. If it can def result in a title - sure. Otherwise, drafting is the one thing we seem to do well so maximize that avenue. |
Waiting for AD may have worked, it may not…but I don’t understand how any Laker fan that’s been around for at least a few years could logically consider it a plausible plan considering it failed with Paul George and Kwai Leonard the two years in a row just prior to the proposed plan of “waiting” for AD. It just doesn’t make sense to have tried that again.
I think we overpaid for AD. I would gladly trade AD and the championship for Ingram/Hart/Ball and the draft pics then roll with the results going from the 2019/2020 season forward.
I would not expect however to have AD and the young core. The Pelicans were gonna deal AD regardless to someone else to keep from losing him for nothing even if whoever they dealt him to would overpay like us or not. I don’t think AD would have been available for us to just sign. We tried that with PG and KwL and it just didn’t work. |
IF AD comes, great.
If AD didn't come, Ingram would have been coming into his own like he is now. And we'd still have other talent coming into their own as well.
It's why keeping Randle and other pieces was a vital decision we whiffed on. You've GOT to maximize assets so that you can still have some left if you need to make a trade. Otherwise you wind up in the position we're in right now. Letting our talent walk for nothing and then not even retaining who we traded some for, was the biggest mistake we've made and its come and bit us now.
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MikeTrout
Star Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2020
Posts: 1626
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:39 am Post subject: Re: The Lakers First Round Picks Discussion(They have more picks than you think: starting in 2023) |
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| MJST wrote: | Alright I just decided to put all this information here so that fans can understand where we stand with our first round picks. We can only trade our 2027 First Round Pick but that doesn't mean that is the soonest we can draft in the first round. The soonest is this coming draft the 2023 one.
The Lakers 2023 First Round Pick:
The Lakers technically have their 2023 First Round Pick.
The problem is that the Pelicans can swap with us.
That means let's assume the Lakers have a terrible season and get the 1st pick in the 2023 Draft(Victor Web) the Pelicans can say "that's ours now." And we wind up with their pick(wherever it lands) and the Pelicans get our pick.
What this also means is that no matter what, the Lakers will have a first round pick in 2023, it will just be either theirs or the Pelicans. So the best thing the Lakers fans could hope for is that if the Lakers are having a horrible season.. that the Pelicans have a horrible season too. So that way they aren't inclined to swap their pick with ours. If our picks both wind up in the lottery (or say Top 5) we'll still get one, the Pelicans will just take whichever is most advantageous.
This is what happened with the Atlanta Hawks and the Dallas Mavericks, where the Hawks drafted Luka, the Mavs drafted Trae Young, and they did a pick swap, landing Luka with the Mavs and Trae with the Hawks.
So Lakers 2023 First Round Pick: Owned/Swap (Just will be Lakers or the Pelicans spot)
The 2024 and 2025 First Round Picks
The Lakers will have either the 2024 First Round Pick or the 2025 First Round Pick. It all depends on which one the Pelicans decide to take.
The Pelicans then have a choice whether or not they want to use the Lakers 2024 First Round Pick or their 2025 First Round Pick. Whichever the Pelicans choose, the Lakers get the next pick and that pick becomes tradeable.
This means that if the Pelicans select the 2024 Pick, the 2025 Pick becomes ours and tradable, if the Pelicans select the 2025 Pick, the Lakers get the 2014 First Round Pick which becomes tradable.
The Lakers 2026 First Round Pick:
The Lakers fully own their 2026 Pick but because of the Stepien Rule they cannot trade it until the Pelicans decide which pick they want between the 2024 and 2025 Picks. Because the Pelicans can still select the 2025 pick which would violate the rule not allowing us to trade the 2026 Pick.
What this means going forward:
So in a nutshell our first round options are dependent on the Pelicans decisions, but also how their seasons go. For example: If the Pelicans do not pick swap and decide to take the 2025 first round pick from the Lakers then the Lakers will have
2023 First Round Pick
2024 First Round Pick
2026 First Round Pick
2027 First Round Pick
But it all depends on the Pelicans.
But first things first, The Lakers WILL HAVE a First Round Pick in the 2023 NBA Draft.. it just depends whether it will be our own.. or The Pelicans'. |
Thanks for making this post. Been tired of seeing people think the Lakers have no 1st round picks. It's literally only one year without a pick |
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Megaton
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Pelicans and Lakers both dealing with injury issues this season it seems. With Ingram and Zion the Pelicans looked like they were gonna put together a solid run.
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GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Pelicans lost 
We gotta sweep them this season for a decent pick
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MJST
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Posts: 26389
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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We would need to finish near the Pelicans in the standings in order to keep our pick. Essentially, they'd have to either have a better pick than ours, or our picks need to be in the same place, or they'll swap.
Like if the Lakers have a terrible season and get the 1st pick of the draft, the Pelicans will just swap and then draft Victor.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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greek laker
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:36 am Post subject: |
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MJST@
Is there a deadline when Pelicans have to choose between 2024 and 2025 pick? |
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Black Sheep
Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Wawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone know if Pelicans have to swap before or after the lottery?
Example: pelicans swap picks but somehow we jump them with their own pick that they swapped with.
Or they can swap after the draft lottery ? |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4449
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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The Pelicans can wait until the draft, after the draft lottery to choose...so there isn't a logical way for the Lakers to have the 1st pick.
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Black Sheep wrote: | Anyone know if Pelicans have to swap before or after the lottery?
Example: pelicans swap picks but somehow we jump them with their own pick that they swapped with.
Or they can swap after the draft lottery ? |
I’m assuming they can choose to swap once the draft board is set (ie post lottery drawings).
However, post swap, if we somehow trade our likely low 2023 1st rounder to get higher on the board and possibly a puck above the Pels, then the Pels cannot swap out for our pick yet again. Once the swap occurs post lottery drawings, our obligation for the AD trade (towards the 2023 1st in particular) is extinguished.
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Black Sheep
Starting Rotation
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Location: Wawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh okay thanks fellas
Well that sucks. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4449
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Black Sheep wrote: | Ahh okay thanks fellas
Well that sucks. |
Yea, it's even worst that that...if our pick the year after next year is the #1 pick the Pelicans can get that one too. So...if the Lakers are in the lottery this year and next and win the #1 pick both years, 2023 and 2024 then the Pelicans can choose both #1 Laker picks in the next two years. It makes no sense to tank with that reality because it does the Lakers no good to lose this year or next.
The good news is if the Pelicans chose the swap for 2024 then the Lakers would have all of their next 7 FRPs after then: 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030, 2031 ...only 7 years out can be considered.
Which is why I don't mind sacrificing one of those pics to improve this year. We have plenty.
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