|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
For me, the issue with the FRPs is not whether the Lakers “have” picks. It is the issue of them trading them away as incentives in more bad trades.
Let this James era run it ‘s course. Then start the rebuild. Those FRPs are the future even if swapped mid 20s picks or potential teen lottery picks in the years the Lakers can use them.
The FO and ownership planned for this year’s competitive mediocrity and media circus the day they signed James and then traded for Davis at all costs. There are no surprises here except for the continued fan insistence to keep trading away assets in order to protect James’ “prime”. We are so past that!
Accept the season and this roster. It will be another roller coaster of emotions as they have their highs and lows all season long as they battle for a play-in spot. Lakers will have another season of high profile national games that hopefully are not repeats of the embarrassing blowouts of last season. Every game a countdown of the scoring title and Lakers embarrassment in the standings. Who knows, maybe they surprise and are more competitive then I expect.
As pointed out, the Lakers will have FRPs over the next several years. IMO it would be nice to actually see some of them in uniform and contributing instead of trading them away and relying on the recent carousel of one year contracts or UDFAs on the roster. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Accept the season and this roster. It will be another roller coaster of emotions as they have their highs and lows all season long as they battle for a play-in spot. |
If that is how the front office sees it, then they should blow up the team while they still have guys who can get value. The problem is, Jeanie wants Lebron to break Kareem's record as a Laker, and the Lakers have no incentive to tank and give their pick to the Pelicans. But in that scenario at least you get some picks or younger players for Lebron and AD.
If they are keeping them though, I don't see how that is an option. I don't see how you can sell future free agents on coming here after that. When you have two elite players, and you aren't doing anything to put a winning team around them, why would another elite player want to sign with the team? All they are doing in that case is wasting years on those guys careers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Thanks to a great TV deal signed by her father.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5611
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
TL;dr: you can put protections on the ‘27/‘29 FRPs right now to essentially trade them twice assuming our trading partner is fine with that. I’m assuming a deal hasn’t been made yet since all our trading partners want those picks unprotected. Either way, our FO just got extended so unfortunately they’re here to stay and hopefully they can do an about face in how they negotiate deals so that we can save face towards our present title contention. Cause up until this point, they just been outright bad in how they negotiate our draft capital into deals.
You committed an extension to Bron without hitting the pause button on it till 2023 free agency to see how many options can open up with cap space without Bron’s max number jamming up the books. They keep harping on how the 2023 cap plan provides us flexibility, but then impede it’s true potential by extending Bron now rather than later (fyi, if later dude could have negotiated a no-trade clause into a new 2yr deal next summer…imho that’s enough incentive for Bron to wait till then cause he controls his destiny, cause right now dude can be traded this coming summer without blocking it.).
Anyways, with the extension came the promise to Bron that we would compete now using those picks. If the extension was made for the sole purpose of making sure he is a Laker while breaking Kap’s record…that’s a terrible reason for the extension now rather than later since dude will assumingely break it this year while he’s still on his existing deal rather than later via his extension years.
Anyways, this is a long about way of saying those picks are up for grabs to compete now, otherwise it makes no sense to extend him now.
That being said, if the picks are being earmarked for a true needle moving trade, then you can still make those picks tradable twice by placing appropriate protections on it. For fringe type deals like the Indy one for Myles, you can essentially trade both our picks but have them lottery protected to where if they convey, Indy gets 2 mid-low 1st round picks for a guy they assumingely do not want to commit to and can lose for nothing in free agency next summer.
Then if a trade ever lines up for a true legit needle mover (ie like Ky), you can trade our 2 FRPs as lottery picks to that team. If conveyed, they get lottery picks in ‘27 & ‘29 for a guy they seemingly haven’t committed to at the moment.
For example, trade ‘27/‘29 protected top 14 to Indy for Myles now. Then later in the season if Ky becomes available, flip Myles and bottom 15 protected ‘27/‘29 picks to BK.
If in ‘27 and/or ‘29 we are competitive Indy gets those picks. If they don’t convey, offer Indy multiple SRPs instead.
If we are not competitive in ‘27 and/or ‘29, BK gets lottery picks. If it doesn’t convey for them, they get 1st round picks swaps in ‘26 & ‘28 instead + whatever SRPs remain out of the Indy trade.
_________________
Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
Last edited by vasashi17+ on Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Accept the season and this roster. It will be another roller coaster of emotions as they have their highs and lows all season long as they battle for a play-in spot. |
If that is how the front office sees it, then they should blow up the team while they still have guys who can get value. The problem is, Jeanie wants Lebron to break Kareem's record as a Laker, and the Lakers have no incentive to tank and give their pick to the Pelicans. But in that scenario at least you get some picks or younger players for Lebron and AD.
If they are keeping them though, I don't see how that is an option. I don't see how you can sell future free agents on coming here after that. When you have two elite players, and you aren't doing anything to put a winning team around them, why would another elite player want to sign with the team? All they are doing in that case is wasting years on those guys careers. |
I proposed trading James to get value back in return. Apparently that is a very unpopular option around here.
So the reality is they continue “building” around a 38 yr old with 20 years of deep playoff runs in his legs and a too often injured finesse PF they keep trying to play at C to protect the legend. Go figure?
As for the next marquee FA. They will sign because the team has a high visibility rating and they did go all in successfully just a couple years ago. It will take time to rebuild the roster as it did when the Lakers collected #2 picks and had assets to build a competitive roster. Who knows how many seasons post James (and quite possibly Davis ) that will take?
But for the short term, Lakers get to ride the James Lifetime Achievement wagon for another season or two. The elite FAs understand the plan better then fans. They and their agents understand the business side better then most fans. They understand the money to be made as a Laker. They understand the lack of competitive roster with James. And the reasons behind it.
Lakers just went all in and won a ring. This current fiasco is just the price they pay for doing so. It will take time to collect the assets needed to go for the next championship in 2030s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I believe they want to get out of the salary lux tax hell they would be in any Westbrook+picks for (insert 40-50M) players coming back. Unless it's expiring deals (which they aren't in most rumors) the Lakers will not only give up their picks, but also their capspace.
So for them, I think the way they look at this - a trade needs to be worth giving up the picks + the capspace of 2023 + any lux tax impact for 2023-24 etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
The way things are right now, it's a little ugly for this year but with AD/Bron you still should be competitive and get play ins/playoffs. And then from next summer they can have a lot more to work with using the capspace, many more draft picks to trade and could end up getting something they truly covet - a star in his prime. That seems to be the way Jeanie and this FO think. Next summer correct me if I'm wrong but we could do a trade using 3 picks, and absorb a massive amount of salary using the cap. Now right now there isn't a star that has demanded a trade or a team that wants to blow it up, but no one thought Don would be a Cav a year ago.
I personally don't agree with the plan, but it's just how they seem to operate. Always looking for the next big star. We have means to make a major move next year, and while most think it's FA or bust, I think they plan on using the trade front with their capspace as well. When you have 3 first round picks to move, right now that has a lot of value, as would the fact that you could not absorb the incoming salary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
The thing that bugs me is that we already have the blueprint. The 2020 team was great. We had defense, we had size, we had length, we had shooting.
Everything you need to win.
And Pelinka and Jeanie just turned their backs on it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5611
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Next summer correct me if I'm wrong but we could do a trade using 3 picks, and absorb a massive amount of salary using the cap. |
You’re not wrong per se but there are pros & cons to this strategy.
3 picks is kind of a stretch since the Pels would control how low of a 1st that 2023 pick becomes for us. So depending on how the protections play out on our other picks, we have 2.5 FRPs to trade this coming summer with a low 2023 and a max of 2 unprotected FRPs.
In that case, we can trade the 2023 pick on draft day as a low 1st rounder and send either ‘27/‘29 or ‘28/‘30 as unprotected 1sts. Note: our ‘30 pick isn’t unlocked till the 2022/23 season ends. So we can’t trade that pick on draft night. We would have to wait till the evening of June 30th when the 2023/24 season officially gets underway with the FA moratorium. You can have terms agreed upon with a trade partner where we pick the 2023 1st and then trade those players rights with the tandem of ‘28/‘30 picks, but in order for a tamper probe not to be unleashed, we gotta make sure that doesn’t leak to the media.
As for cap space, we wound have to renounce all our pending FAs so they’re lost as assets to gain max cap space as an asset. But “max cap space” is really limited to a 25% max player aka RFAs coming off their rookie deals. Since he seems to be all the rage, think 2019 #10 overall pick, Cam Reddish. Even if we offer the 25% max to a RFA player, their home teams can match the offer. In that case, that player is banned from later being traded to us for the 2023/24 season.
Meanwhile if we trade Russ right now, we can take back as much as 59m in incoming salary. That “cap space” is nearly double the cap space we have next summer.
But that would assume ownership is willing to spend a hefty tax bill. Otherwise the cap space they use next summer, would allow them to duck the repeater tax bill. Remember even if we use our cap space to trade a contract into, they most we can take back is 36.9m in salary since we’re only allowed to go 100k above the salary cap in a trade where cap space is used as a mechanism to absorb a deal into.
I posted the details about all of that in the Cap Q&A thread and reposted it below for reference.
| vasashi17+ wrote: | Cap projections went from 133m (7.56%) to 134m (8.37%)….
| Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
The NBA has informed teams that the 2023-24 salary cap is currently projected to be $134 million ($10.4M higher than this season), with $162M tax level, per sources. Both are $1M higher than previous projections.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1568333057790205955
|
Inching closer to the max (10%) it can hit of 136m (under the current CBA).
Projected 2023/24 Offseason Laker Cap Sheet on a 134m Salary Cap
1. Bron 46.9m (ie 35% max based off 134m cap)
2. AD 40.6m
3. Damien (player option) 2.6m
4. MaxC 1.7m
5. 2023 1st pick swap w/NO ~3m (based on pick falling between #20-30)
6. Reaves RFA QO 2.1m (could be higher if he meets “starter criteria”
*7-12. 6 incomplete roster (IR) charges if we intend to use cap space 6.6m
= 103.5m in team salary
= 30.5m in cap space (if we renounce all our UFAs)
= 32m in cap space (if Damien opts out and is renounced as an UFA)
= **35.5m in cap space (if we purge everyone except for Bron & AD)[/b]
*Note: we have two 2nd round picks in 2023, but they do not place cap holds like 1st round picks do; if both those players make it to the roster, they likely will both start at 1.1m rookie min deals, which is the same amount as an IR charge. So they are still accounted for in the projections above.
**Note: if the cap trend continues (and it most likely will), the cap will finally come to rest at 136m and if that occurs, Bron’s max extension number will be 47.6m. So in that regard, if we purge everybody except for Bron and AD (ie + 10 IR charges), the most cap space we can offer to a single FA next summer is 36.8m, which is about 11m short of a 35% max player (ie. 47.6m), 4m short of a 30% max player (40.8m) and about 3m more than what a 25% max player could get (ie 34m).
Our UFA cap holds that if not renounced makes us a capped out team:
Russ 49.4m
PatB 19.5m
Walker IV 7.8m
Nunn 6.8m
TB, TB Jr, JTA, Schro 2m each
Gabriel 1.9m |
_________________
Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KindCrippler2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| IDK how they move forward without drafting talent. Now that the supermax is working as intended, franchise changing free agents are a thing of the past, and all of the top tier guys (Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Zion, Ja, etc) are locked up. Lakers will have FRPs, but the situation will be sticky for a few more years because of the swaps. We complained about those Deng and Mozgov contracts, but this situation is objectively worse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
So glad they chose to extend a 20 yr vet for $47m. Lol
And yes, I understand he is worth so much more as a legacy player and marketing focal point.
Just seems that whole competitive team thing is lacking with the decision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ThePageDude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2573
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RI Laker wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
I'm curious more than anything. What has Jeanie done? |
Indeed, what exactly has she added over and above what she inherited?
Here, I'lll contribute a few:
- setup an unusual/informal org structure where friends/advisors have broad reach into operations (Rambii reaching into Johonson/Pelinka's orgs)
- fired Jim/Mitch
- hired Johnson/Pelinka
- actively lobbied for and supported the Westbrook trade
- extended Pelinka |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Thanks to a great TV deal signed by her father. |
which is expiring at the end of the Decade. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | So glad they chose to extend a 20 yr vet for $47m. Lol
And yes, I understand he is worth so much more as a legacy player and marketing focal point.
Just seems that whole competitive team thing is lacking with the decision. |
or someone who averaged 30/8/6/1/1 the previous season who will break the record for all time NBA scoring, that's good for business. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | - setup an unusual/informal org structure where friends/advisors have broad reach into operations (Rambii reaching into Johonson/Pelinka's orgs) |
Is it really so unusual/informal?
All billionaires have their own groups. LAL has the one that is most public.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother. |
Soon she will have to fire herself, then.
Fired her brother because he couldn't find the right coach, couldn't make the playoffs, etc.
Right now that's exactly where the Lakers are under her command. No playoffs for 2 out of 4 years. Changing coaches. Bad rosters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| danzag wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother. |
Soon she will have to fire herself, then.
Fired her brother because he couldn't find the right coach, couldn't make the playoffs, etc.
Right now that's exactly where the Lakers are under her command. No playoffs for 2 out of 4 years. Changing coaches. Bad rosters. |
I just don't see it this way, since she can only control so much. Pelinka has actually done quite a solid job of building rosters and depth, but it's health that's the problem, hence the lack of playoffs.
Even in 2021, she added depth. Stars got hurt. End.
2022, terrible trade, stars still got hurt. End.
I really don't think it's as bad as it looks, but I do understand when fans specifically look at team records.
All of that being said, I do my draft work in mostly a 3-5 month span, not year round like I need to. I just need to know where the pick is going to land, and basically, I expect mid-to-late 1st as a specific tier of talent, then late 1st into early 2nd as another tier of possible NBA prospects.
That's why I don't care as much about draft position unless it's the very top.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| danzag wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother. |
Soon she will have to fire herself, then.
Fired her brother because he couldn't find the right coach, couldn't make the playoffs, etc.
Right now that's exactly where the Lakers are under her command. No playoffs for 2 out of 4 years. Changing coaches. Bad rosters. |
Playoffs are a secondary goal though.
Lakers won a championship a couple years ago and this season will ride the James pursuing the All-time scoring record topic into the ground.
As stated above, it’s a business decision that has nothing to do with being competitive. The James circus and hiring Ham will give Jeanie a few years of avoiding the accountability of clinging to a play-in spot at best.
And her period of grace only increases if this roster surprises with good health, improved defensive effort and an unexpected win total.
At the end of the day, her team and she can make all the good or bad decisions she wants. Lakers will still sell tickets and get national publicity even when irrelevant in the standings. In some ways, making bad moves or controversial decisions makes the Lakers even more relevant in the “hot take” media circles. Nationally, any time you can ridicule an LA team, it sells or gets clicks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| danzag wrote: | The thing that bugs me is that we already have the blueprint. The 2020 team was great. We had defense, we had size, we had length, we had shooting.
Everything you need to win.
And Pelinka and Jeanie just turned their backs on it |
it had some flaws, mainly a very weak bench and no creators outside of Lebron and Rondo. Rondo was going to get a raise (which he did). Rob addressed those by getting DS and Trezz. keep in mind, we still had an elite defense in that year, it didn't work out because of the injuries. moves after that were just panic ones and stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother. |
Soon she will have to fire herself, then.
Fired her brother because he couldn't find the right coach, couldn't make the playoffs, etc.
Right now that's exactly where the Lakers are under her command. No playoffs for 2 out of 4 years. Changing coaches. Bad rosters. |
I just don't see it this way, since she can only control so much. Pelinka has actually done quite a solid job of building rosters and depth, but it's health that's the problem, hence the lack of playoffs.
Even in 2021, she added depth. Stars got hurt. End.
2022, terrible trade, stars still got hurt. End.
I really don't think it's as bad as it looks, but I do understand when fans specifically look at team records.
All of that being said, I do my draft work in mostly a 3-5 month span, not year round like I need to. I just need to know where the pick is going to land, and basically, I expect mid-to-late 1st as a specific tier of talent, then late 1st into early 2nd as another tier of possible NBA prospects.
That's why I don't care as much about draft position unless it's the very top. |
How long do we complain about health before we realize that bringing in players with poor health histories enable injury? Lebron didn’t have a history of injury and his health here has been a surprise. No one is surprised that AD misses a significant number of games.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | IDK how they move forward without drafting talent. Now that the supermax is working as intended, franchise changing free agents are a thing of the past, and all of the top tier guys (Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Zion, Ja, etc) are locked up. Lakers will have FRPs, but the situation will be sticky for a few more years because of the swaps. We complained about those Deng and Mozgov contracts, but this situation is objectively worse. |
That is why future star FA signings will be players who are in their mid 30’s and we will hope they hold up. The young stars are showing that they will go for the money with the teams who draft them.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
Smart enough to fire her brother. |
Soon she will have to fire herself, then.
Fired her brother because he couldn't find the right coach, couldn't make the playoffs, etc.
Right now that's exactly where the Lakers are under her command. No playoffs for 2 out of 4 years. Changing coaches. Bad rosters. |
I just don't see it this way, since she can only control so much. Pelinka has actually done quite a solid job of building rosters and depth, but it's health that's the problem, hence the lack of playoffs.
Even in 2021, she added depth. Stars got hurt. End.
2022, terrible trade, stars still got hurt. End.
I really don't think it's as bad as it looks, but I do understand when fans specifically look at team records.
All of that being said, I do my draft work in mostly a 3-5 month span, not year round like I need to. I just need to know where the pick is going to land, and basically, I expect mid-to-late 1st as a specific tier of talent, then late 1st into early 2nd as another tier of possible NBA prospects.
That's why I don't care as much about draft position unless it's the very top. |
How long do we complain about health before we realize that bringing in players with poor health histories enable injury? Lebron didn’t have a history of injury and his health here has been a surprise. No one is surprised that AD misses a significant number of games. |
Anthony Davis played 65-75 games every year before he was traded here, and that is considered ironman in today's NBA. his 2021 injuries were scary, but nothing can stop Lebron being soloman hilled or AD step on the foot of gobert, or someone bump into his knee. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10802
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| danzag wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
Maybe I'm just tired and being emotional but I genuinely am starting to think we're seeing the end of the Lakers as we know them. Jeanie needs to wake up and see it but I think she gets distracted by big shiny things like Hulu TV shows, scoring records, and having Klutch in her back pocket (but not realizing she's really in theirs). |
I reached the low point of my feelings for the org on hearing of the Pelinka extension because it confirmed my worst fears about Jeanie Buss' business/leadership acumen. |
Jeanie's an incredible businesswoman. The Lakers' record of profitability has been astonishing on her watch. |
Doesn't know (bleep) about basketball, though. |
I'd venture to guess she knows more than many owners including Balmer, Benson, Kronke, etc. I mean she's been a Laker for what, 40 years?
Thing is, she doesn't need to know jack about basketball. All she needs to be able to do as an owner is identify the right organization structures and people do run things at the highest level. She's insulated herself to former Lakers/friends/family. Magic, Pelinka, Kurt, Phil.. I mean even have Ham has some ties to the Lakers. Magic was the GOAT point. Phil the GOAT coach. Pelinka a power agent. Kurt a Laker for life. But are those guys the op guys to run an organization? Hell no.
Since she loved Kobe's GOT apology -- she's a Targaryan with 12 full grown dragons and the biggest army but in her council is the 3 stooges. Like, open your eyes and see this isn't working. See that getting into bed with Klutch is no longer serving you but you're serving them. See how mismanaged our roster is and the terrible balance. She we keep going after players with injury history. See that every summer is a completely new approach.
Even if she can't identify the kind of players we need, at least identify the organizations that seem to be doing things right and try and steal those people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
