Brittney Griner found guilty and sentenced to nine years in prison
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leor_77
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject: Brittney Griner found guilty and sentenced to nine years in prison

Should be interesting to see if Biden/Blinken can get her back. Perhaps the Russians are giving a harsh sentence so that they can get more back in a potential swap.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner found guilty and sentenced to nine years in prison

leor_77 wrote:
Should be interesting to see if Biden/Blinken can get her back. Perhaps the Russians are giving a harsh sentence so that they can get more back in a potential swap.


No doubt:

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A Russian court sentenced WNBA star Brittney Griner to nine years in prison Thursday, an expected conclusion to her trial that should allow negotiations for a prisoner swap to accelerate.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:00 am    Post subject:

I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject:

Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:24 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


Guessing Russia will be off limits to WNBA players in the future. That being said many people who play sports that don't make it in the pros here usually go overseas to play basketball or some other sport and some of those countries are openly hostile to the USA. I remember Smush Parker went to play in Iran, China and Venezuela in his post-NBA playing career and if those countries wanted to they could've played a little game of hostage diplomacy.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


Guessing Russia will be off limits to WNBA players in the future. That being said many people who play sports that don't make it in the pros here usually go overseas to play basketball or some other sport and some of those countries are openly hostile to the USA. I remember Smush Parker went to play in Iran, China and Venezuela in his post-NBA playing career and if those countries wanted to they could've played a little game of hostage diplomacy.
For Smush?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


Guessing Russia will be off limits to WNBA players in the future. That being said many people who play sports that don't make it in the pros here usually go overseas to play basketball or some other sport and some of those countries are openly hostile to the USA. I remember Smush Parker went to play in Iran, China and Venezuela in his post-NBA playing career and if those countries wanted to they could've played a little game of hostage diplomacy.
For Smush?


You got me man....
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:16 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:15 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


Concur -- my employer (does the WNBA?) bends over backwards with videos, emails & briefings about watching your P's and Q's during international travel & in so many words they tell you they cannot help you if you get in trouble.


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Last edited by JerryWest_44 on Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:18 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.


Agree 100%. And if it were DMR or anybody else serving 9 years over there for a harmless infraction I would want anything possible to be done for them too. Don't care if it's inequitable. I don't place any upper limit on the value of the freedom of a person who, in my view, has been given a sentence that falls squarely in the realm of cruelty.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.


Agree 100%. And if it were DMR or anybody else serving 9 years over there for a harmless infraction I would want anything possible to be done for them too. Don't care if it's inequitable. I don't place any upper limit on the value of the freedom of a person who, in my view, has been given a sentence that falls squarely in the realm of cruelty.


All of that sounds great, and I agree completely in spirit.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to be that altruistic, because doing so comes with consequences that don't justify the immediate gratification. On the surface, a swap for an arms trader gets Griner home (which is obviously what we all want). However, the offshoot of that is we then we have opened Pandora's box, and we then have another Brittany Griner in jail because we have made it "profitable" for Russia to take other Americans (who actually may be more innocent than Griner) into custody for diplomatic exploitation in order to get another international criminal in exchange.

And let's remember, before we get too pumped up on the "innocent" part, too disingenuously, Griner travelled to Russia having been warned of the risks and admits to possessing the medicinal marijuana (though saying she did so unintentionally).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:01 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.


Agree 100%. And if it were DMR or anybody else serving 9 years over there for a harmless infraction I would want anything possible to be done for them too. Don't care if it's inequitable. I don't place any upper limit on the value of the freedom of a person who, in my view, has been given a sentence that falls squarely in the realm of cruelty.


All of that sounds great, and I agree completely in spirit.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to be that altruistic, because doing so comes with consequences that don't justify the immediate gratification. On the surface, a swap for an arms trader gets Griner home (which is obviously what we all want). However, the offshoot of that is we then we have opened Pandora's box, and we then have another Brittany Griner in jail because we have made it "profitable" for Russia to take other Americans (who actually may be more innocent than Griner) into custody for diplomatic exploitation in order to get another international criminal in exchange.

And let's remember, before we get too pumped up on the "innocent" part, too disingenuously, Griner travelled to Russia having been warned of the risks and admits to possessing the medicinal marijuana (though saying she did so unintentionally).


As with most of our disagreements.
It's just us discussing the nuance.

It's the responsibility of everyone who travels, to know the rules of where they are going.

Griner is in the wrong for going to Russia and breaking that country's laws.
Russia is in the wrong for using a human life for political leverage.

And at the end of the day we all hope she gets home safe and alive.

The tiebreaker for me is justice. Have the punishment fit the crime.
In Russia and in America. Don't get me started on the African Americans and other minorities in our country's history who were murdered by the state for a crime that DNA evidence shows they didn't commit. But similarly to Griner, they did something that gave the justice system an opportunity to screw them.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:54 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


What's the difference between Griner and Otto Warmbier?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:33 am    Post subject:

There was never a legal "process." Only a script written by Putin. She has always been a hostage with the bogus script having to be followed before an exchange would be discussed. Everyone in the media knew it was a kidnapper script being followed and not a legal process so did not bother trying to follow Putin's pathetic script.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:13 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.


Agree 100%. And if it were DMR or anybody else serving 9 years over there for a harmless infraction I would want anything possible to be done for them too. Don't care if it's inequitable. I don't place any upper limit on the value of the freedom of a person who, in my view, has been given a sentence that falls squarely in the realm of cruelty.


All of that sounds great, and I agree completely in spirit.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to be that altruistic, because doing so comes with consequences that don't justify the immediate gratification. On the surface, a swap for an arms trader gets Griner home (which is obviously what we all want). However, the offshoot of that is we then we have opened Pandora's box, and we then have another Brittany Griner in jail because we have made it "profitable" for Russia to take other Americans (who actually may be more innocent than Griner) into custody for diplomatic exploitation in order to get another international criminal in exchange.

And let's remember, before we get too pumped up on the "innocent" part, too disingenuously, Griner travelled to Russia having been warned of the risks and admits to possessing the medicinal marijuana (though saying she did so unintentionally).


As with most of our disagreements.
It's just us discussing the nuance.

It's the responsibility of everyone who travels, to know the rules of where they are going.

Griner is in the wrong for going to Russia and breaking that country's laws.
Russia is in the wrong for using a human life for political leverage.

And at the end of the day we all hope she gets home safe and alive.

The tiebreaker for me is justice. Have the punishment fit the crime.
In Russia and in America. Don't get me started on the African Americans and other minorities in our country's history who were murdered by the state for a crime that DNA evidence shows they didn't commit. But similarly to Griner, they did something that gave the justice system an opportunity to screw them.


All good points. It's tough for our government to condemn Russia for how they have handled Griner given the hypocrisy it entails.

But in regards to punishment fitting the crime, how does that reconcile with letting a big-time, dangerous arms dealer go free in order to meet a goal?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:17 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Bol wrote:
I hope they do whatever it takes to get her back.


It has to be reasonable. She put herself in this position, so a "whatever it takes" attitude is counterproductive. As I said in the politics thread, doing a swap for a true criminal who is responsible for the deaths of many through illegal arms trading is not the kind of quid-pro-quo exchange that is remotely wise. Such a move will only encourage Russia, and other foe-nations, to incarcerate other Americans on trumped up charges in an effort to extort the U.S. into unreasonable and dangerous exchanges. We can see elements of that in Griner's sentencing. They went with a harsh sentence for her hoping to leverage the outrage to pressure Biden to make an inequitable swap.


I see both sides. If it was my average-joe, non-famous ass over sentenced in Russia. Nobody would care. And I’d be screwed.

But at the same time, I’d rather see an innocent person go free even if it means a guilty person goes free as well.

Sure she’s not innocent in the classic sense. But her crime doesn’t warrant death in Russian jail. Which is a real possibility for her at this point.

Plus I try to stay consistent. Any of us would support a swap if our loved ones were in Griner’s position.

I give R’s crap all the time for voting against reproductive rights. But when it becomes personal. When it is THEIR mistress. They have them get an abortion. So I don’t like people advocating against a swap. Unless their position would be the same if their daughter/son was in Griner’s situation.


Agree 100%. And if it were DMR or anybody else serving 9 years over there for a harmless infraction I would want anything possible to be done for them too. Don't care if it's inequitable. I don't place any upper limit on the value of the freedom of a person who, in my view, has been given a sentence that falls squarely in the realm of cruelty.


All of that sounds great, and I agree completely in spirit.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to be that altruistic, because doing so comes with consequences that don't justify the immediate gratification. On the surface, a swap for an arms trader gets Griner home (which is obviously what we all want). However, the offshoot of that is we then we have opened Pandora's box, and we then have another Brittany Griner in jail because we have made it "profitable" for Russia to take other Americans (who actually may be more innocent than Griner) into custody for diplomatic exploitation in order to get another international criminal in exchange.

And let's remember, before we get too pumped up on the "innocent" part, too disingenuously, Griner travelled to Russia having been warned of the risks and admits to possessing the medicinal marijuana (though saying she did so unintentionally).


As with most of our disagreements.
It's just us discussing the nuance.

It's the responsibility of everyone who travels, to know the rules of where they are going.

Griner is in the wrong for going to Russia and breaking that country's laws.
Russia is in the wrong for using a human life for political leverage.

And at the end of the day we all hope she gets home safe and alive.

The tiebreaker for me is justice. Have the punishment fit the crime.
In Russia and in America. Don't get me started on the African Americans and other minorities in our country's history who were murdered by the state for a crime that DNA evidence shows they didn't commit. But similarly to Griner, they did something that gave the justice system an opportunity to screw them.


Anyone have a good source for what a nobody would get for a sentence? The best info I could find was around 2 years. So, yes this seems like an excessive sentence.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:41 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


What's the difference between Griner and Otto Warmbier?


From what I remember, there was advice given to Otto not to go to NK. He went anyway and was arrested and ultimately comatosed/killed. Whether it was reasonable or not, you shouldn't expect to be treated fairly.

Again, you take your life in your hands going to countries that are openly hostile to the U.S. You should have no illusions or expectations of safety, privacy, security, etc.

I've had to make several business trips to China and I do everything I can to avoid prying eyes or get any unwanted attention. Doing so as a brown-skinned dude in China isn't easy. I'd be happy to never return. That said, it's very clear that you should expect you're under surveillance even in your hotel room.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Also, I keep reading that she had a prescription for medicinal marijuana. It should go without saying that having a prescription is not very persuasive in a country that bans the substance entirely.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:37 pm    Post subject:

The fact that the US government proposed to trade her and Paul Whelan for a notorious arms dealer shows that hostage diplomacy works. Russia gets a very dangerous bad dude back and all they had to do was kidnap somebody who played sports.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:34 pm    Post subject:

Fwiw, the US and Russia have had some history if trading intelligence assets with each other, and have included civilians in the deals as well for a long time, although not as much in recent years (they did do a deal a few months back). And make no mistake, Viktor Bout has always been at least substantially a Russian intelligence asset.

He has highly placed KGB family and was himself attached to the GRU. And a significant share of his suppliers were always connected to Russian intelligence/oligarchs/Same thing. Not to mention the fact that he supplied people for the US and its allies. He was kind of a go between for everyone and eventually he pissed off US policymakers for working with others against our guys too. So the US is trying to trade him for what is likely a low level intelligence asset if our own and a civilian target of opportunity. But they aren’t trading some individual criminal.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

But in regards to punishment fitting the crime, how does that reconcile with letting a big-time, dangerous arms dealer go free in order to meet a goal?


After I watched an Innocence Project death row documentary not too long ago. I came to the conclusion.
An over-sentenced person imprisoned. Or, an innocent person capital punished.

That's worse. Than a guilty person going free.
And I think the architects of our judicial system agree. That's why the burden of proof is on the prosecutor (in theory).
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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gng930
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:09 pm    Post subject:

Would you equate her imprisonment to terrorists taking hostages? We know what the official policy is on that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:31 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


What's the difference between Griner and Otto Warmbier?


From what I remember, there was advice given to Otto not to go to NK. He went anyway and was arrested and ultimately comatosed/killed. Whether it was reasonable or not, you shouldn't expect to be treated fairly.

Again, you take your life in your hands going to countries that are openly hostile to the U.S. You should have no illusions or expectations of safety, privacy, security, etc.

I've had to make several business trips to China and I do everything I can to avoid prying eyes or get any unwanted attention. Doing so as a brown-skinned dude in China isn't easy. I'd be happy to never return. That said, it's very clear that you should expect you're under surveillance even in your hotel room.


Alot of the same logic is used n victim blaming. Like when that rape victim went up to Mike Tyson’s room at 3am. People said the same thing. What did she expect was going to happen? No expectation of safety. She put herself in that bad position.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:21 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Totally agree with DMR. She put herself in this position.

You take your life in your hands when you try to earn a living in a country like Russia. Why you would decide to engage in the types of activity she was (even something relatively minor like weed) in a country like that is beyond me. No reasonable person would flout the law and custom in a country like that and ignore the possible consequences if caught.

Are the charges trumped up? Sure, maybe. But come on. You're opening yourself up to unpredictable complications if something goes wrong.


What's the difference between Griner and Otto Warmbier?


From what I remember, there was advice given to Otto not to go to NK. He went anyway and was arrested and ultimately comatosed/killed. Whether it was reasonable or not, you shouldn't expect to be treated fairly.

Again, you take your life in your hands going to countries that are openly hostile to the U.S. You should have no illusions or expectations of safety, privacy, security, etc.

I've had to make several business trips to China and I do everything I can to avoid prying eyes or get any unwanted attention. Doing so as a brown-skinned dude in China isn't easy. I'd be happy to never return. That said, it's very clear that you should expect you're under surveillance even in your hotel room.


Alot of the same logic is used n victim blaming. Like when that rape victim went up to Mike Tyson’s room at 3am. People said the same thing. What did she expect was going to happen? No expectation of safety. She put herself in that bad position.


SAS got scorched for saying something like that.
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