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nomoreshaq
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | Does Westbrook have more value as a large expiring contract with very little money left as we approach the trade deadline? I think he probably does.
Does a large expiring, a young player off the roster, + the 2 FRP get you something during the season? I think that’s what the Lakers are banking on. |
I don't think that Westbrook has any real value as an expiring contract. What team is looking for a $47M expiring contract? In other words, who wants to wipe out almost half of their payroll? It's possible that someone would want to do this, but the sheer size of the Westbrook contract is problematic. However . . . this makes sense only if the other team is shipping us contracts with multiple years remaining, which is not what we want. Otherwise, the other team could just let its own contracts expire.
I think it's more accurate to say that the negativity of the Westbrook contract will decline as the season progresses. If the other team would pay $20M instead of $40M, that changes the dynamics. But if we want to get something good as part of the deal, we'll still need to put an FRP or two on the table. And that's even more problematic at mid-season, especially if we're just getting a two-month rental on someone like Turner. |
You make good points.
If there was a player with multiple years that the Lakers actually wanted… then I think they would pull the trigger while giving that other team massive cap relief. Obviously the Lakers aren’t going to trade away their cap relief this summer for multiple players with multiple years left on their deal.
They would obviously do it for a player that they felt was worth giving up that upcoming cap relief. A young player with a huge deal? Perhaps. |
I think that's right. There is a possibility that something will happen during the season to make a star or near-star quality player available from a team that wants to get out of the luxury tax, or something like that. You just never know about this stuff. |
Possible targets:
Dame (4 years on his contract)
Jimmy Butler (4 years on his contract)
Tobias Harris (2 years)
Porzingis (2 years)
Michael Porter (4 years)
SGA (4 years)
Deandre Ayton (4 years)
Bam Abedbayo (4 years)
De'Aaron Fox (4 years)
Gordan Hayward (2 years)
Kyle Lowry (2 yers)
Demar Derozan (2 years)
I think all are impossible but ya never know I guess. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if Mo Harkless will be bought out by OKC. 6'7 long wing defender, and somehow only 28. Only a 32% 3 point shooter however, but may be someone you can have out there defensively as a 3/4.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | Does Westbrook have more value as a large expiring contract with very little money left as we approach the trade deadline? I think he probably does.
Does a large expiring, a young player off the roster, + the 2 FRP get you something during the season? I think that’s what the Lakers are banking on. |
I don't think that Westbrook has any real value as an expiring contract. What team is looking for a $47M expiring contract? In other words, who wants to wipe out almost half of their payroll? It's possible that someone would want to do this, but the sheer size of the Westbrook contract is problematic. However . . . this makes sense only if the other team is shipping us contracts with multiple years remaining, which is not what we want. Otherwise, the other team could just let its own contracts expire.
I think it's more accurate to say that the negativity of the Westbrook contract will decline as the season progresses. If the other team would pay $20M instead of $40M, that changes the dynamics. But if we want to get something good as part of the deal, we'll still need to put an FRP or two on the table. And that's even more problematic at mid-season, especially if we're just getting a two-month rental on someone like Turner. |
You make good points.
If there was a player with multiple years that the Lakers actually wanted… then I think they would pull the trigger while giving that other team massive cap relief. Obviously the Lakers aren’t going to trade away their cap relief this summer for multiple players with multiple years left on their deal.
They would obviously do it for a player that they felt was worth giving up that upcoming cap relief. A young player with a huge deal? Perhaps. |
I think that's right. There is a possibility that something will happen during the season to make a star or near-star quality player available from a team that wants to get out of the luxury tax, or something like that. You just never know about this stuff. |
Possible targets:
Dame (4 years on his contract)
Jimmy Butler (4 years on his contract)
Tobias Harris (2 years)
Porzingis (2 years)
Michael Porter (4 years)
SGA (4 years)
Deandre Ayton (4 years)
Bam Abedbayo (4 years)
De'Aaron Fox (4 years)
Gordan Hayward (2 years)
Kyle Lowry (2 yers)
Demar Derozan (2 years)
I think all are impossible but ya never know I guess. |
As a DROZ fan, gonna monitor that situation closely. Maybe Chicago implodes a bit this year with Lonzo's injury. Already 33 years old and with only 2 years on his deal, who knows. He was gassed and overmatched in the playoffs being the #1 featured guy. I think he may be better cast alongside 1-2 superstar level players.
Doubtful but one can hope. I've only wanted him as a Laker since 2016. 
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Supposed 2023 cap plan targets:
| Quote: | “No matter what [the Lakers] do with trades or however they reconstruct this year, they are going to keep an eye on next summer. That is where they have a lot invested, being able to get another star-type player next summer,” the executive said to Heavy Sports. “They’re going to look at Kyrie Irving, of course, but he is probably not their top choice. They will look at Jerami Grant, who they liked for a long time, same with Myles Turner. I think Andrew Wiggins would be a big prize there because he can play two-ways.” – via Frederick Ennette @ Heavy.com
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With 30mish in cap space next summer, Ky might be a depreciated asset due to his off the ball schtick, but I’m not sure dude prices out that low just yet. Wiggins is also 30% max eligible (~40mish), so none of those guys will be able to really hit their max bag. As for the Myles & Grant, they do seem to fall within that 25-30m+ price range as borderline tier 2 players.
But like @AH and many gave said…it’s all clickbait to fill the vacuum till next summer’s cap room.
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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logical24
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | If IND took Russ/1 1st for Buddy/Myles we would get a 7m trade exception from it no? 40m > 47m |
Correct, but one report said they would want Lakers to also take on Theis which would then mean the overall trade would add an additional $800k to the Lakers. Not a ton |
Could we maybe re-route Theis somewhere else? We dont need 4 centers 5 if you count AD lol? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Supposed 2023 cap plan targets:
| Quote: | “No matter what [the Lakers] do with trades or however they reconstruct this year, they are going to keep an eye on next summer. That is where they have a lot invested, being able to get another star-type player next summer,” the executive said to Heavy Sports. “They’re going to look at Kyrie Irving, of course, but he is probably not their top choice. They will look at Jerami Grant, who they liked for a long time, same with Myles Turner. I think Andrew Wiggins would be a big prize there because he can play two-ways.” – via Frederick Ennette @ Heavy.com
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With 30mish in cap space next summer, Ky might be a depreciated asset due to his off the ball schtick, but I’m not sure dude prices out that low just yet. As for the others, they do seem to fall within that 25-30m+ price range. Wiggins true 25% max also caps out at about 34m, so he’s also within range of being the only max guy we could grab with that type of cap space.
But like @AH and many gave said…it’s all clickbait to fill the vacuum till next summer’s cap room. |
IMO greater chance we end up bringing back Bev on a 1 year placeholder deal, extend Reaves, and chase the 2024 FA market than Ky taking a major paycut (right before a potential cap spike too in a few years).
I can see the Warriors valuing Wiggins over Poole and moving the latter.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:45 am Post subject: |
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^Yinoma, I had to edit out Wiggins max rate…I had no idea he was already 30% max eligible. Damn time flies…feels like dude was just traded for KLove haha.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | ^Yinoma, I had to edit out Wiggins max rate…I had no idea he was already 30% max eligible. Damn time flies…feels like dude was just traded for KLove haha. |
Yeah. So you're talking about maybe, Myles Turner (ha), and Jerami Grant being the reachable headlines? Then you read that Jerami wants to be a more featured offensive weapon and maybe that's a pass (I think Portland almost has no choice but to re-sign him).
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Supposed 2023 cap plan targets:
| Quote: | “No matter what [the Lakers] do with trades or however they reconstruct this year, they are going to keep an eye on next summer. That is where they have a lot invested, being able to get another star-type player next summer,” the executive said to Heavy Sports. “They’re going to look at Kyrie Irving, of course, but he is probably not their top choice. They will look at Jerami Grant, who they liked for a long time, same with Myles Turner. I think Andrew Wiggins would be a big prize there because he can play two-ways.” – via Frederick Ennette @ Heavy.com
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With 30mish in cap space next summer, Ky might be a depreciated asset due to his off the ball schtick, but I’m not sure dude prices out that low just yet. Wiggins is also 30% max eligible (~40mish), so none of those guys will be able to really hit their max bag. As for the Myles & Grant, they do seem to fall within that 25-30m+ price range as borderline tier 2 players.
But like @AH and many gave said…it’s all clickbait to fill the vacuum till next summer’s cap room. |
That particular quote made me roll my eyes this morning. This is some "executive" from another team speculating about what the Lakers might do next summer. This "executive" must not be very busy, even with training camps opening and media days taking place, if he has time to offer pontification to Heavy Sports. I guess Heavy Sports is the New York Times of the clickbait world. I'm sure that Pelinka is busy right now feeding insights to someone from Reddit.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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^Yeah @Yinoma, the cap plan is pretty asinine. Actually on an ass scale it’s more like an asiten.
Speaking of asses…
| Quote: | “That’s what we’ve gotta do right now. We’ve gotta capitalize on cap space, on picks,” Pritchard said. “In any way we can, we got to be gritty as a staff, if can we acquire more of those to have a chance to be part of our big core. And we’re developing the core. People ask me all the time, do you have that core? Maybe, maybe not, but we’re getting closer and next year we’ll be closer. “That’s the fun part of our business is being creative and generating ideas. Look, we have three first-round picks it looks like next year. We have close to $30 million in cap space. And we’ll be active to use that cap space to acquire more assets. That’s just natural, but I think it gives us the ability to pivot in a lot of different ways. We have optionality out the butt. At the end of the day, I want to be able to sit in the room with Herb and management and coach and say, ‘Alright, here’s our possibilities. Where do we want to go?’ In the past it’s been, ‘We’ve got to go down this path. This is the path we’ve got to go down. It’s only going to get us so far, we know there’s only so far, we’ve got a freaking ceiling.’ What I want to do is remove a ceiling and that takes time. It’s going to take time.” – via Evan Sidery @ basketballnews.com
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Gut punch to the butt…does a Myles re-up lead up to that 30m in cap space he’s speaking of next summer? Sure does and it also considers Buddy/Theis’s deals still on the books. If they do end up getting off Myles, Buddy & Theis tho, they looking at close to 85m in cap space next summer….assuming they ain’t keeping Russ on a re-up haha.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | ^Yinoma, I had to edit out Wiggins max rate…I had no idea he was already 30% max eligible. Damn time flies…feels like dude was just traded for KLove haha. |
Could also envision a true punt season (after we punt this season too  ) where it's something like:
1. extend Pat Bev 1 year, say 10m.
2. use early Bird rights to extend Nunn, say 9-10m.
3. extend Reaves, 7-10m or so.
There goes your punt cap space. 
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | ^Yinoma, I had to edit out Wiggins max rate…I had no idea he was already 30% max eligible. Damn time flies…feels like dude was just traded for KLove haha. |
Could also envision a true punt season (after we punt this season too ) where it's something like:
1. extend Pat Bev 1 year, say 10m.
2. use early Bird rights to extend Nunn, say 9-10m.
3. extend Reaves, 7-10m or so.
There goes your punt cap space. |
After a 42 win season? It'll be clean slate except for Reaves if he improves. |
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roger_federer
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| until the ownership fixes the mess of the FO they built, the chance of a star player coming to Lakers is very slim. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | until the ownership fixes the mess of the FO they built, the chance of a star player coming to Lakers is very slim. |
As long as AD stays healthy all we need is the Wiggins types or LaVine types. |
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Balto
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| logical24 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | If IND took Russ/1 1st for Buddy/Myles we would get a 7m trade exception from it no? 40m > 47m |
Correct, but one report said they would want Lakers to also take on Theis which would then mean the overall trade would add an additional $800k to the Lakers. Not a ton |
Could we maybe re-route Theis somewhere else? We dont need 4 centers 5 if you count AD lol? |
How about Theis+Nunn to Suns for Crowder? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I'm feeling confident about is that in 2023-24 we will not be a luxury tax paying team. I guess that's a victory to some.
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cital
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | If IND took Russ/1 1st for Buddy/Myles we would get a 7m trade exception from it no? 40m > 47m |
Correct, but one report said they would want Lakers to also take on Theis which would then mean the overall trade would add an additional $800k to the Lakers. Not a ton |
Could we maybe re-route Theis somewhere else? We dont need 4 centers 5 if you count AD lol? |
How about Theis+Nunn to Suns for Crowder? |
The Knicks could use another big, how about Theis to NY and Reddish to the Lakers. |
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nomoreshaq
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | If IND took Russ/1 1st for Buddy/Myles we would get a 7m trade exception from it no? 40m > 47m |
Correct, but one report said they would want Lakers to also take on Theis which would then mean the overall trade would add an additional $800k to the Lakers. Not a ton |
Could we maybe re-route Theis somewhere else? We dont need 4 centers 5 if you count AD lol? |
How about Theis+Nunn to Suns for Crowder? |
Lakers->Crowder, Turner, Hield, Theis
Pacers->Russ + 1FRP + 2nd rounders or a swap
Suns->Nunn, Gabriel + 2nd rounders or a swap |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | One thing I'm feeling confident about is that in 2023-24 we will not be a luxury tax paying team. I guess that's a victory to some. |
That is 100%. This is what makes our journey to the championship much more difficult than teams like the Dubs and Clips. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: |
Possible targets:
Dame (4 years on his contract)
Jimmy Butler (4 years on his contract)
Tobias Harris (2 years)
Porzingis (2 years)
Michael Porter (4 years)
SGA (4 years)
Deandre Ayton (4 years)
Bam Abedbayo (4 years)
De'Aaron Fox (4 years)
Gordan Hayward (2 years)
Kyle Lowry (2 yers)
Demar Derozan (2 years)
I think all are impossible but ya never know I guess. |
As a DROZ fan, gonna monitor that situation closely. Maybe Chicago implodes a bit this year with Lonzo's injury. Already 33 years old and with only 2 years on his deal, who knows. He was gassed and overmatched in the playoffs being the #1 featured guy. I think he may be better cast alongside 1-2 superstar level players.
Doubtful but one can hope. I've only wanted him as a Laker since 2016. |
DeRozan is coming off an all-NBA season. For what we have to offer, I think he and most of the guys on this list are a pipe dream for us.
The only guys I can even imagine us getting on this list are Lowry, Hayward, Porter, and Harris because of their age, injury history, or crappy contract. |
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nomoreshaq
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| they should really have the salary cap be something like 3 maxes (the biggest maxes) + 12 minimum salaries or something. whatever that number is. then allow every team a full mle. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | | they should really have the salary cap be something like 3 maxes (the biggest maxes) + 12 minimum salaries or something. whatever that number is. then allow every team a full mle. |
If you think about it, the salary cap can roughly afford 3 max players (~100% salary cap) and then gives you enough wiggle (~30m) to fill in the roster with exceptions (3.5-11.5m MLEs; ~2m vet minEs) before hitting the luxury tax.
Once the 35% max was established, it was only a matter of time till it became big3 super teams, with the dubs finding a way to go big4 via the cap spike cheat code and disciplined drafting/rookie contract extension negotiating.
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Megaton
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | | they should really have the salary cap be something like 3 maxes (the biggest maxes) + 12 minimum salaries or something. whatever that number is. then allow every team a full mle. |
If you think about it, the salary cap can roughly afford 3 max players (~100% salary cap) and then gives you enough wiggle (~30m) to fill in the roster with exceptions (3.5-11.5m MLEs; ~2m vet minEs) before hitting the luxury tax.
Once the 35% max was established, it was only a matter of time till it became big3 super teams, with the dubs finding a way to go big4 via the cap spike cheat code and disciplined drafting/rookie contract extension negotiating. |
I don't think it really matters. Every team is operating under the same rules.
There will always be some teams that make smart choices and get lucky; and there will always be some teams that make poor choices and get unlucky.
The teams that are smart/lucky now will ineviitably go through a dry spell at some point. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | Hope you guys are excited for that Westbrook and Beverly backcourt defending the likes of Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Devin Booker, etc |
As opposed to what? A Schroder and Beverley backcourt? It takes a team effort to defend the superstars. We'll see what Ham manages to do.
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