Having Vando miss the majority of the season isn't healthy.
Losing Christian Wood isn't healthy.
Having Vincent miss the majority of the year till the final few games isn't healthy.
And all 3 could be impact players for a weak bench or difference makers when asked to guard MPJ (which Rui couldn't).
It's the little things tbh.
It’s time to move on, if only the FO knew how to build a team… _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
The Hawks' decision on who to trade is going to be very important.
The 2 best, most realistic moves might be getting either of the Hawks guards. Trae is probably the only star that might be available for what the Lakers have, and DJM is one of the few high-level 2 way players out there.
I honestly think even DJM would've made a big difference in that series. His dribble penetration and defense would've helped out a lot. DLo and AR didn't bring their one advantage over him, 3PT shooting. They shot around 32% and 27% respectively. DJM would've been an upgrade in every way.
Ya'll think Kd is a bigger difference maker than he is when his last two stops in "big 3 no depth" land have failed miserably.
KD helps the team if he's just replacing LeBron.
KD does nothing for the team if he's replacing our Guards and depth, because then we just learn the lesson we just watched Phoenix learn.
The bolded is objectively a lie.
Not at all. It's mainly about fit too, and not worrying about KD taking the ball out of anyones hands to iso for no reason when we have momentum.
If the Lakers have a coach that's running a system offense that utilizes a pick and roll and the off ball presence of the 3. It's not that LeBron CAN'T play that role, it's that he doesn't want to and will go stretches where he iso's and allows teams back into the game because he wants to play point guard.
KD isn't going to do that, and it's to the benefit of the team.
Durant this season averaged
27.1 PPG
6.6 RPG
5.0 APG
0.9 SPG
1.2 BPG
52.3% Field Goal
41.3 Three Pointer (on 5.4 a game)
85.6% Free Throw
Now you put him in an off-ball role, with an actual point guard as well as a center like Davis and you can see how the team operates. Let me show you.
Starters:
D'Angelo Russell
Austin Reaves
Kevin Durant
Rui Hachimura
Anthony Davis
Bench:
Spencer Dinwiddie(if he returns) Gabe Vincent(if not)
Max Christie
Taurean Prince(if he returns)
Jarred Vanderbilt
Christian Wood(if he returns) / Jaxson Hayes
You can also run a AD at the 4 and true center at the 5 lineup because you can count on KD to stretch the floor reliably and consistently.
Suddenly, you don't have possessions where the ball stands still because KD wants to hold it and play point guard.
Suddenly the paint is far more open for Davis because KD's offense isn't predicated on needing the paint open.
Suddenly the DLO/Anthony Davis pick and roll is even deadlier because no defender can cheat off KD off ball.
Suddenly KD being a threat from three means that it's either wide open, or Gordon has to stay out of the paint in order to defend KD from an open shot.
Suddenly you have KD whom is a capable defender still, to put on MPJ.
DLO and AD run the pick and roll, AD rolls to the basket, Gordon has to come up or stay, if he comes up, its a dish to a wide open Kevin Durant, if he stays then Davis is wide open in the paint. You also have DLO, Reaves, Rui to score in that scenario just in case.
And if you switch Rui to the bench and move Vando to the starters, then you have another defender, but the defense still can't relax because of the shooting of DLO, Reaves and KD in the starting lineup, and you have a defensive trio of Vando, KD and Davis at the basket.
See the vision now?
It'll likely never happen though, but for the 5 out offense we were running, KD is a better fit than LeBron.
That said, we all want a true coach that's going to tell LeBron to take a backseat and take advantage of being off-ball while the real PG sets the table and allows him to take over when its time.
With KD, you don't have to ask him that... because that's what he wants anyway.
But hey... it's never gonna happen, right? So why worry about it..
Appreciate the analysis, but again, LeBron had the same percentage from 3 on the same volume. You may argue you could scale KD's volume on this Lakers team, but one might wonder whether that's even advisable for KD at this stage. In their respective first round series, a four-years-older LeBron was still a tier above Durant.
Running ball screens is sexy for the regular season. It collapses in the postseason. In fact, we overran ball screens against Denver and it cost us. This is one of the major reasons DLo's game drops off in the playoffs: he can't beat ball pressure reliably without screens. That's why Reaves became our secondary ballhandler two playoffs in a row now.
Now, I'm a proponent of KD without sending LeBron out. I think a 3/4/5 of LeBron, KD, and AD is tantalizing with LeBron going Magic mode instead of Kobe (the vision he tried to sell to Kawhi). Depending on how Team USA goes, this may be a distant possibility given how much of a basketball hoe KD is. I wouldn't give up all 3 picks, but I'd do salary matching + 2 FRP + seconds and still have enough respectable depth.
DLo excelled in the pick and roll and also lead our team in +/- depending on how much stock you want to put into that.
We won Game 4 because we took the ball out of LeBron's hand down the stretch and handed it to DLO to run pick and roll with AD. We ran 5 plays and the Nuggets couldn't stop it.
In Game 2 we started the 2nd half, running pick and roll with LeBron and AD and the Nuggets couldn't stop it. Then we went away from it and AD only got one touch in the 4th quarter while LeBron held the ball and took and got bad shots, and we wound up losing by 2.
If we end Game 2 the way we did game 4, taking the ball out of LeBron's hands and putting it in DLO's and running a pick and roll that the Nuggets can't stop, we finish off the game easily and are now only down 3-2.
DLO gave the Lakers the most success when they ran pick and roll with him and Davis, because of all the openings it created when LeBron designated himself to off ball attacker.
1:45 AD and Russell screen. Jackson's trailing and 'in jail' on DLO's hip. LeBron's open for the backdoor, Gordon has to watch AD and DLO and initially steps up to stop AD, but decides to recommit to potentially stop LeBron from backdooring. Jokic doesn't fully commit to DLO in order to stay with AD, DLO has an easy layup.
1:53 AD and Russell screen. Jokic halfway committed to AD but laying off. 4 Nuggets crowd the paint in case of AD rolling. Gordon is halfway committed in case AD slashes. There are multiple openings here because of this.
- Russell is wide open from mid
- AD is wide open from mid
- Prince is wide open from three
- Gabe is wide open for three
- LBJ is wide open for three
Russell takes first option after faking a pass to Vincent to move Murray, it's short but he taps back to AD who is still open and he sinks it.
2:02 AD and Russell screen, this time on MPJ. MPJ is way behind on screen, causing Jokic to have to come up to try to stop Russell. Murray is playing the passing lane in case it goes to Vincent for three. Gordon is now committed to help defend AD rolling to the basket as Jokic had to commit to DLO. This means he can't stop LeBron if LeBron attacks backdoor. He does.
LeBron dives to the basket, DLO hits him with the wide open no-look alley oop.
2:15 AD and Russell screen. Reggie starts to go over, but then tries to go under to stop AD from rolling but leaves DLO wide open because of that. Russell rises up and pulls from 3, gets fouled by Jackson(no whistle) and sinks it. Now had DLO kept running and Jackson remained behind him, Jokic would have had to step up again(as he was prepared to do) and Gordon would have had to rotate to AD, Jackson would have been caught in the middle, and LeBron would have likely had another alley oop if he dives.
In this instance, DLO gets the hockey assist, with AD being the one to get the assist to LBJ.
The DLO and AD screen, Jokic comes UP to DLO this time immediately as Jackson trails the play. Davis rolls hard and DLO finds him with the pass. This means Gordon has to move up to stop AD in the paint. MPJ doesn't rotate to LeBron with enough commitment because he's worried about Prince being wide open behind him. LeBron cuts to the basket, and gets an easy layup.
Exploiting MPJ's 'defense' on these possessions is a good idea. But it goes to show when we run the PnR why Denver struggles. They have to pick a poison. Russell gets an open shot or layup, Davis gets an open shot or layup, or LeBron gets an easy layup from the weak side, or they leave a three point shooter open. When Hachimura isn't on, they stay because they aren't worried about the three, but they worry about it when it's Prince and he's playing well.
Now imagine if instead of it being LeBron off ball that Gordon has to commit to... it was KD.
Then think about how often KD likes to cut to the basket off ball in pin downs and similar sets and how his defender always hs to remain focused and moving or he's going to cut to the basket from there.
Imagine Gordon having to chase Durant around all night, and him having to stay out to defend him on the pick and roll action or risk wide open threes.
Then think about KD defending MPJ with his size and length to answer.
Bron2AD wrote:
MJST wrote:
Bron2AD wrote:
Look at Knicks... They have so many dogs... We too Hollywood..too cute to go dirty work
And as you see, they are just as prone to blow games.
@MJST again, appreciate the level of detail and passion about this, but this fails to convince me that in aggregate an off-ball KD is better than everything that LeBron is. Bringing up pet actions in which we were successful against a dud Denver defense is nice. The happy path is always nice, with your homeboy DLo at the helm. The reality is we tried the same thing in Game 5 and the same defenders that were struggling to keep up shut down the same actions. The reality is in Game 2 we kept running ball screens, playing right into Denver's hands.
And the reality is DLo is not the offensive coordinator you need in the playoffs. He hasn't proven to be this in any of his stops. Lets stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just because we drafted him originally or you like 2019 Brooklyn guys or something. No one in the league considers him what you want him to be, and apparently neither does he. That means that in a KD-AD team, you'd need an actual creator. Booker and Beal weren't enough to win a game, yet DLo and Austin will be?
Also, again, I'm not sure Durant is the active off-ball threat he wants to be anymore. He hardly has lift on his corner 3pt jumpers. Force him to guard MPJ or box out Gordon? What do you think is going to happen? Quite honestly if you swapped the two, I'm pretty confident in saying we'd have been swept.
Also, again, I'm not sure Durant is the active off-ball threat he wants to be anymore. He hardly has lift on his corner 3pt jumpers. Force him to guard MPJ or box out Gordon? What do you think is going to happen? Quite honestly if you swapped the two, I'm pretty confident in saying we'd have been swept.
And you'd be wrong
(it didn't even take but 30 seconds into the vid) KD also had 5 blocks this game. And what happened at 2:24 when Gordon had to run back out to Durant to try to prevent the open three? Durant blew past him to the basket, caused rotation and it lead to an easy dunk for a teammate.
The reason is because Durant is dangerous from all spots. When they cut off LeBron from the drive, they expect it's going to go back out or stop, or he's going to pass, or it's gonna be a bad bail out or forced shot. When they try to cut Durant off he rises and fires because he's a better shooter than LeBron. It's not just the threes its that Durant can kill them from mid and from three, and their entire defense has to answer for that. Beyond that he's constantly moving off ball and if Gordon doesn't pay attention for a second, Durant backdoors him or cuts to the basket.
I'm not saying LeBron COULDN'T play that kind of off ball role, or even that he couldn't excel at it, it's that he won't. At least not for a consistent enough period of time. And if the Suns had LeBron and we had Durant, I personally think it'd be a better fit for both teams as constructed. LeBron wants to go be a point guard and two stars? Go be the point guard in Phoenix with Booker and Beal next to him. Durant wants a point guard to get him the passes off ball and off screens? DLO will do that. And teams can't defend us the same way, because Durant would be a constant off-ball mover, and they cannot leave him open for three so it either takes Gordon out of the paint or it gives him wide open threes or backdoor cuts. And if they commit to him, it makes life easier for Davis. And Durant is still capable enough a defender that you could put him on MPJ. Additionally you'd have the size and/or defense of Rui or Vando in the starting lineup as well.
I mean, not really.
Lebron missed 11 games, Davis 6, I believe.
But the rest of the supporting cast, there were tons of injuries.
Vanderbilt - played in only 29 regular season games
Vincent - played in only 11 regular season games, 5 playoff games
Wood - played in only 50 games
Reddish only played in 48 games
etc...
I mean, not really.
Lebron missed 11 games, Davis 6, I believe.
But the rest of the supporting cast, there were tons of injuries.
Vanderbilt - played in only 29 regular season games
Vincent - played in only 11 regular season games, 5 playoff games
Wood - played in only 50 games
Reddish only played in 48 games
etc...
hardly a healthy team
None of those guys were really in the rotation
Dangelo missed 6 games.
Austin played every game.
Rui missed 14 games.
Lebron missed 11 games.
Anthony missed 6 games.
Taurean missed 4 games.
Even added Spencer mid-season for free.
I look at Cam, Jarred and Christian as depth. Jarred and Christian started as many games as Max and Jaxson. We remember how the Cam experiment went (played 4 on 5 on offense). I do credit Christian for a win against the Clippers — rebounds against Zubac — and the Suns — defense against Durant — but I think Jaxson had as much, if not more, impact with his offensive rebounding.
I mean, not really.
Lebron missed 11 games, Davis 6, I believe.
But the rest of the supporting cast, there were tons of injuries.
Vanderbilt - played in only 29 regular season games
Vincent - played in only 11 regular season games, 5 playoff games
Wood - played in only 50 games
Reddish only played in 48 games
etc...
hardly a healthy team
None of those guys were really in the rotation
Dangelo missed 6 games.
Austin played every game.
Rui missed 14 games.
Lebron missed 11 games.
Anthony missed 6 games.
Taurean missed 4 games.
Even added Spencer mid-season for free.
I look at Cam, Jarred and Christian as depth. Jarred and Christian started as many games as Max and Jaxson. We remember how the Cam experiment went (played 4 on 5 on offense). I do credit Christian for a win against the Clippers — rebounds against Zubac — and the Suns — defense against Durant — but I think Jaxson had as much, if not more, impact with his offensive rebounding.
I think it had more to do with the staring 5 than injuries. We spent half a season benching Rui, then DLO, then Austin. Then finally brought Prince off the bench and we were pretty good _________________ Previously LBJ23
I don’t know what to make of the Gabe Vincent situation, we compared it to Kendrick Nunn since it was convenient, but do you look at it like his role was to replace Dennis Schroder and the injury being as significant as losing their sixth man? Our bench was nearly dead last in production, despite our depth.
I don’t know what to make of the Gabe Vincent situation, we compared it to Kendrick Nunn since it was convenient, but do you look at it like his role was to replace Dennis Schroder and the injury being as significant as losing their sixth man? Our bench was nearly dead last in production, despite our depth.
Vincent is the type of player brought in to defend ball handlers at the point of attack and knock down the open three. Im not too worried about him.
Valanciunas and Claxton are available in free agency, get one or both and I will say a sure ring next season.
Claxton is going to get $18-22M. Jonas is likely $12-16M.
We've got $6M to offer
Only 6mil? Yikes
Correction- $5.25M
I feel like that puts us in Goga/Drummond level big man. Jonas is probs getting MLE which is a smidge above $13M. I've given up on the Hartenstein dream and am just hoping JV really wants to be in LA enough to take a massive pay cut .. but I don't see it at all 😞
the team needs a center more than any other position. its painfully obvious that our krypotnite was giving up 10-15 point runs whenever AD got knicked/hurt. so many of jokics points were easy buckets just from being the biggest guy on the court.
Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 4501 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Wed May 01, 2024 11:09 am Post subject:
What do we think about Mike Budenholzer is HC? Maybe look at Reddick to be an assistant?
Gotta be an upgrade over Ham, no? We were small tweaks away from winning games against the Nuggets for 2 years. Gotta hope the new coach knows how and when to call a TO
What do we think about Mike Budenholzer is HC? Maybe look at Reddick to be an assistant?
Gotta be an upgrade over Ham, no? We were small tweaks away from winning games against the Nuggets for 2 years. Gotta hope the new coach knows how and when to call a TO
Bud would def be an upgrade over Ham. Hopefully they'd keep Jent. Reddick i suspect is waiting for his own head coaching job and he'd be smart to take a young team in a rebuild. It's a fools errand to make your first head-coaching a job a team in win-now mode.
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