Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7927 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:59 am Post subject:
levon wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Quote:
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
17.5 per year (Grayson's contract) is Russell's current salary. I think that's about what he's looking at. 22m tops if I had to guess. It's less Russell's fault and more of a result of this new era of cost-conscious teambuilding.
The new CBA penalties are going to squeeze the $$ for the 3rd best players on teams.
Every contender needs 2 max level players. It's the 3rd/4th best guys that are going to get cost-cut to get under the apron if those max guys are on the wrong side of 30 making $50M+
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144477 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:14 am Post subject:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Quote:
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind.
Yes, spending on Beal and Grayson Allen is a great way to make your point. Lol
Thus Suns owner may be rich but he really mismanaged assets and use of his money in his year plus there. _________________ Previously LBJ23
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind.
Yes, spending on Beal and Grayson Allen is a great way to make your point. Lol
Thus Suns owner may be rich but he really mismanaged assets and use of his money in his year plus there.
Only time will tell. There are a lot of unlikely outcomes to be had this year. Someone or 2 will pull it off. Whether it means championship or not, chips need to be in. Suns have done that for better or worse. _________________ Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Is it too much to dream about getting both Dejounte Murray and Mikal Bridges?
The expectations for Bridges should be back to what it was in PHX. His efficiency AND production was way down from that 27-game run last season. He looked like a non-star trying to be a star. He's probably back to what he was in PHX on a team where he doesn't have a constant green light.
There was that report about the Nets wanting to build around him. But, you're talking about a 27 game sample size of him looking great vs this entire season plus his career before hand of just being a really good non all-star.
If the Lakers can get them while keeping one of D'Lo/AR, that would be amazing. I'd honestly do it for both of them if the Lakers could keep Rui instead. Mikal can play SG too.
If would give a big boon to the defense while maintaining a high-level of offense. The Lakers just don't have that option right now. Offense and defense both come with too much of a trade-off of each other. The Lakers aren't playing good defense right now with their good offense. Earlier in the season, the Lakers weren't playing good offense with their good defense.
Is it too much to dream about getting both Dejounte Murray and Mikal Bridges?
The expectations for Bridges should be back to what it was in PHX. His efficiency AND production was way down from that 27-game run last season. He looked like a non-star trying to be a star. He's probably back to what he was in PHX on a team where he doesn't have a constant green light.
There was that report about the Nets wanting to build around him. But, you're talking about a 27 game sample size of him looking great vs this entire season plus his career before hand of just being a really good non all-star.
If the Lakers can get them while keeping one of D'Lo/AR, that would be amazing. I'd honestly do it for both of them if the Lakers could keep Rui instead. Mikal can play SG too.
If would give a big boon to the defense while maintaining a high-level of offense. The Lakers just don't have that option right now. Offense and defense both come with too much of a trade-off of each other. The Lakers aren't playing good defense right now with their good offense. Earlier in the season, the Lakers weren't playing good offense with their good defense.
Lol. For both of those guys you would have to send Dlo, AR, Rui, and Gabe just to make salaries work. Plus picks. _________________ Previously LBJ23
Is it too much to dream about getting both Dejounte Murray and Mikal Bridges?
The expectations for Bridges should be back to what it was in PHX. His efficiency AND production was way down from that 27-game run last season. He looked like a non-star trying to be a star. He's probably back to what he was in PHX on a team where he doesn't have a constant green light.
There was that report about the Nets wanting to build around him. But, you're talking about a 27 game sample size of him looking great vs this entire season plus his career before hand of just being a really good non all-star.
If the Lakers can get them while keeping one of D'Lo/AR, that would be amazing. I'd honestly do it for both of them if the Lakers could keep Rui instead. Mikal can play SG too.
If would give a big boon to the defense while maintaining a high-level of offense. The Lakers just don't have that option right now. Offense and defense both come with too much of a trade-off of each other. The Lakers aren't playing good defense right now with their good offense. Earlier in the season, the Lakers weren't playing good offense with their good defense.
Lol. For both of those guys you would have to send Dlo, AR, Rui, and Gabe just to make salaries work. Plus picks.
Forgot Murray will get bumped up to ~$25 mill next season. IIRC, they can make a trade at the draft to get him while his salary is cheaper.
Bridges doesn't get the same kind of bump, so the Lakers can wait on him later in the off-season.
Lakers got some salaries to work with with Vando also getting a pay bump when the new season begins. D'Lo probably should get more money in a sign-and-trade considering he had a really good season.
I think there are avenues to get there with matching money. Will those teams accept them in terms of basketball value? That's the question.
Not to mention you’d have to build a whole new offense around him. The team would have another horrible first half of the season learning it while Lebron loses patience and goes back to freelancing while Trae just stands there. Soon we’d be having “should Trae come off the bench” discussions and we’d be bashing the production we’re getting from the minimum salary guys we had to sign to replace the good ones we sent out. Any of this sound familiar?
What if I told you that instead of adding Trae Young, who just came off a season with these numbers in an offense built around him dominating the ball
25.7 ppg
10.8 apg
2.8 rpg
1.3 spg
23-29 record when he played
We could add a guy coming off a season with these numbers in an offense also built around him dominating on the ball.
Player B
22 ppg
11.7 apg
8 rpg
1.6 steals per game
34-38 record
Would you prefer Trae Young or Player B?
And what if i told you Player B only cost 1 first and 2 role players while Trae would cost 3 firsts + swaps + 3 role players? Which scenario do you feel gives us a better future?
What if I told you that instead of adding Trae Young, who just came off a season with these numbers in an offense built around him dominating the ball
25.7 ppg
10.8 apg
2.8 rpg
1.3 spg
23-29 record when he played
We could add a guy coming off a season with these numbers in an offense also built around him dominating on the ball.
Player B
22 ppg
11.7 apg
8 rpg
1.6 steals per game
34-38 record
Would you prefer Trae Young or Player B?
And what if i told you Player B only cost 1 first and 2 role players while Trae would cost 3 firsts + swaps + 3 role players? Which scenario do you feel gives us a better future?
Who is the player that averaged 11.7 apg this past season? _________________ Previously LBJ23
What if I told you that instead of adding Trae Young, who just came off a season with these numbers in an offense built around him dominating the ball
25.7 ppg
10.8 apg
2.8 rpg
1.3 spg
23-29 record when he played
We could add a guy coming off a season with these numbers in an offense also built around him dominating on the ball.
Player B
22 ppg
11.7 apg
8 rpg
1.6 steals per game
34-38 record
Would you prefer Trae Young or Player B?
And what if i told you Player B only cost 1 first and 2 role players while Trae would cost 3 firsts + swaps + 3 role players? Which scenario do you feel gives us a better future?
Who is the player that averaged 11.7 apg this past season?
It was a trick question. We already got player B at the price of a pick and two role players. Those were Russ’s stats the year before we got him. Is Trae a better shooter? Sure. But he’s worse than Russ and Reaves and a way worse defender. How much better do people honestly expect him to improve this team switching him for those two? And keep in mind he has Quinn Snyder is his coach. He’s not waiting to be “unlocked.”
He’s not gonna fit into this offense the way DLO has. Those big numbers he has are the same way Russ had his—from a heliocentric offense built around him where he gets to dribble the air out of the ball. Put his numbers in an offense where his usage drops by 10 points and its gonna be the Westbrook experience all over again, down to the sending out at least two quality role players that will have to be replaced by the Troy Brown jrs of the world. But instead of just one future first, we sent out three plus swaps.
What if I told you that instead of adding Trae Young, who just came off a season with these numbers in an offense built around him dominating the ball
25.7 ppg
10.8 apg
2.8 rpg
1.3 spg
23-29 record when he played
We could add a guy coming off a season with these numbers in an offense also built around him dominating on the ball.
Player B
22 ppg
11.7 apg
8 rpg
1.6 steals per game
34-38 record
Would you prefer Trae Young or Player B?
And what if i told you Player B only cost 1 first and 2 role players while Trae would cost 3 firsts + swaps + 3 role players? Which scenario do you feel gives us a better future?
Who is the player that averaged 11.7 apg this past season?
It was a trick question. We already got player B at the price of a pick and two role players. Those were Russ’s stats the year before we got him. Is Trae a better shooter? Sure. But he’s worse than Russ and Reaves and a way worse defender. How much better do people honestly expect him to improve this team switching him for those two? And keep in mind he has Quinn Snyder is his coach. He’s not waiting to be “unlocked.”
He’s not gonna fit into this offense the way DLO has. Those big numbers he has are the same way Russ had his—from a heliocentric offense built around him where he gets to dribble the air out of the ball. Put his numbers in an offense where his usage drops by 10 points and its gonna be the Westbrook experience all over again, down to the sending out at least two quality role players that will have to be replaced by the Troy Brown jrs of the world. But instead of just one future first, we sent out three plus swaps.
A great example of why team building with basic stats is a terrible strategy.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144477 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:18 am Post subject:
CamReddish wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Quote:
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind.
Yes, spending on Beal and Grayson Allen is a great way to make your point. Lol
Thus Suns owner may be rich but he really mismanaged assets and use of his money in his year plus there.
And yet they are in the playoffs while the Lakers are in the play in. I would be fine with that mismanagement if I were a Suns fan. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind.
Yes, spending on Beal and Grayson Allen is a great way to make your point. Lol
Thus Suns owner may be rich but he really mismanaged assets and use of his money in his year plus there.
And yet they are in the playoffs while the Lakers are in the play in. I would be fine with that mismanagement if I were a Suns fan.
Lol. You are a weird dude. The Suns are about as same as the Lakers. The Suns fans are not happy. They were supposed to be a lot better _________________ Previously LBJ23
Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns guard Grayson Allen has agreed to a four-year, near $70 million contract extension through 2027-28, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Could this be a market setter for Russell? Given their need for a point and Dlo's relationship with Booker, could there be a trade option here?
Allen is a 4th guy in Phoenix? The Suns are another competitor who has ownership that isn’t afraid to spend money. Other owners seem to have recognized what is needed for NBA ownership and bowed out (Jordan, Cuban). The league is leaving the Buss kids behind.
Yes, spending on Beal and Grayson Allen is a great way to make your point. Lol
Thus Suns owner may be rich but he really mismanaged assets and use of his money in his year plus there.
And yet they are in the playoffs while the Lakers are in the play in. I would be fine with that mismanagement if I were a Suns fan.
Lol. You are a weird dude. The Suns are about as same as the Lakers. The Suns fans are not happy. They were supposed to be a lot better
It surprises you that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? Phoenix is literally one flame out from a colossal disaster. They have no draft picks and no cap room. Their best player is aging and has had multiple significant injuries.
They probably have the worst contract in basketball on their roster.
They are staring at many many many years of mediocrity if this thing goes south, which it looks like it might. The only option they might have is to move one of Durant and/or Booker to try and recoup assets.. even if they do that they are staring at a lengthy lengthy rebuild because it will almost be impossible to tank.
Which scenario do you feel gives us a better future?
Neither. I’d rather trade Lebron and Anthony for first round picks and jump start the rebuild.
Could probably get two solid future role players in this draft.
JHS, two guys from the weakest draft in a decade + Reaves/Rui?
Pels get a top 5 pick in 2025 draft
Not to mention 27 1st.
People either really don't think things through or let their emotions cloud they judgment.
I'll never understand why people are so eager to blow up the team like they forget what it actually means. Last time around the Lakers had incredible luck with positioning and still ended up with a core that couldn't crack .500. Full teardowns rarely end in championships. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
The Suns spent $24M more than the Lakers this year to win 2 more games than we did. That figure is about to skyrocket when factoring in Allen’s $70M extension which will cost them an additional $79M in tax.
It’s nice to have a deep pocketed owner who doesn’t mind spending. I wish we had one. Not sure Ishbia is quite the model you’d want though. His spending has verged into reckless territory while he chases instant and immediate success at the grave expense of their future. They’ve given away all of their draft picks and they will be deep into the second apron which will make it very difficult to improve the team in the next few years. This is essentially it for them and it doesn’t appear that they’re good enough to contend in a serious way. Their older stars are creaky, Durant will be 36 next year, and it should raise alarm that they got pretty damn healthy seasons from KD and Booker and barely avoided the play-in. You could say the same about us, but we aren’t nearly as all-in and locked-in to this squad as they are to theirs. We have draft assets to play with and cap flexibility that Phoenix simply doesn’t. If we gave up every asset we had I’d surely want to do better than 2 more wins. _________________ 14-5-3-12
The Suns spent $24M more than the Lakers this year to win 2 more games than we did. That figure is about to skyrocket when factoring in Allen’s $70M extension which will cost them an additional $79M in tax.
It’s nice to have a deep pocketed owner who doesn’t mind spending. I wish we had one. Not sure Ishbia is quite the model you’d want though. His spending has verged into reckless territory while he chases instant and immediate success at the grave expense of their future. They’ve given away all of their draft picks and they will be deep into the second apron which will make it very difficult to improve the team in the next few years. This is essentially it for them and it doesn’t appear that they’re good enough to contend in a serious way. Their older stars are creaky, Durant will be 36 next year, and it should raise alarm that they got pretty damn healthy seasons from KD and Booker and barely avoided the play-in. You could say the same about us, but we aren’t nearly as all-in and locked-in to this squad as they are to theirs. We have draft assets to play with and cap flexibility that Phoenix simply doesn’t. If we gave up every asset we had I’d surely want to do better than 2 more wins.
That’s a fair point, but another way of looking at it is that despite the fact the Suns had a new coach and three new starters (Beal, Nurkic, Allen) and their big 3 only played 40 games together, they still finished two wins better than we did. And they might be the one team that can beat Denver in a series. They beat them in the one game they had all 3 of their guys, something we haven’t done since 2022
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35925 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:57 am Post subject:
pjiddy wrote:
ocho wrote:
The Suns spent $24M more than the Lakers this year to win 2 more games than we did. That figure is about to skyrocket when factoring in Allen’s $70M extension which will cost them an additional $79M in tax.
It’s nice to have a deep pocketed owner who doesn’t mind spending. I wish we had one. Not sure Ishbia is quite the model you’d want though. His spending has verged into reckless territory while he chases instant and immediate success at the grave expense of their future. They’ve given away all of their draft picks and they will be deep into the second apron which will make it very difficult to improve the team in the next few years. This is essentially it for them and it doesn’t appear that they’re good enough to contend in a serious way. Their older stars are creaky, Durant will be 36 next year, and it should raise alarm that they got pretty damn healthy seasons from KD and Booker and barely avoided the play-in. You could say the same about us, but we aren’t nearly as all-in and locked-in to this squad as they are to theirs. We have draft assets to play with and cap flexibility that Phoenix simply doesn’t. If we gave up every asset we had I’d surely want to do better than 2 more wins.
That’s a fair point, but another way of looking at it is that despite the fact the Suns had a new coach and three new starters (Beal, Nurkic, Allen) and their big 3 only played 40 games together, they still finished two wins better than we did. And they might be the one team that can beat Denver in a series. They beat them in the one game they had all 3 of their guys, something we haven’t done since 2022
How many wins do you think they would have gotten if they just stuck with the core of Bridges, Ayton, and Chris Paul? And maybe used the first rounders they traded in the Durant trade on acquiring someone else. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Last edited by CandyCanes on Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
The Suns spent $24M more than the Lakers this year to win 2 more games than we did. That figure is about to skyrocket when factoring in Allen’s $70M extension which will cost them an additional $79M in tax.
It’s nice to have a deep pocketed owner who doesn’t mind spending. I wish we had one. Not sure Ishbia is quite the model you’d want though. His spending has verged into reckless territory while he chases instant and immediate success at the grave expense of their future. They’ve given away all of their draft picks and they will be deep into the second apron which will make it very difficult to improve the team in the next few years. This is essentially it for them and it doesn’t appear that they’re good enough to contend in a serious way. Their older stars are creaky, Durant will be 36 next year, and it should raise alarm that they got pretty damn healthy seasons from KD and Booker and barely avoided the play-in. You could say the same about us, but we aren’t nearly as all-in and locked-in to this squad as they are to theirs. We have draft assets to play with and cap flexibility that Phoenix simply doesn’t. If we gave up every asset we had I’d surely want to do better than 2 more wins.
That’s a fair point, but another way of looking at it is that despite the fact the Suns had a new coach and three new starters (Beal, Nurkic, Allen) and their big 3 only played 40 games together, they still finished two wins better than we did. And they might be the one team that can beat Denver in a series. They beat them in the one game they had all 3 of their guys, something we haven’t done since 2022
We’ll see how it pans out over the next few seasons but in terms of their Big 3 not playing many games together, that’s simply baked in to the team they constructed. Beal hasn’t played more than 60 games in a season since the 18-19 year. Durant has been pretty brittle the last few years and is getting into his late 30s. Booker has missed double digit games in nearly every year of his career. This is probably always going to be a thing, and they have very little wiggle room to improve their roster going forward. That’s an awful lot of money and future sacrifice for a team that might but likely won’t beat Denver in a series. _________________ 14-5-3-12
The Suns spent $24M more than the Lakers this year to win 2 more games than we did. That figure is about to skyrocket when factoring in Allen’s $70M extension which will cost them an additional $79M in tax.
It’s nice to have a deep pocketed owner who doesn’t mind spending. I wish we had one. Not sure Ishbia is quite the model you’d want though. His spending has verged into reckless territory while he chases instant and immediate success at the grave expense of their future. They’ve given away all of their draft picks and they will be deep into the second apron which will make it very difficult to improve the team in the next few years. This is essentially it for them and it doesn’t appear that they’re good enough to contend in a serious way. Their older stars are creaky, Durant will be 36 next year, and it should raise alarm that they got pretty damn healthy seasons from KD and Booker and barely avoided the play-in. You could say the same about us, but we aren’t nearly as all-in and locked-in to this squad as they are to theirs. We have draft assets to play with and cap flexibility that Phoenix simply doesn’t. If we gave up every asset we had I’d surely want to do better than 2 more wins.
That’s a fair point, but another way of looking at it is that despite the fact the Suns had a new coach and three new starters (Beal, Nurkic, Allen) and their big 3 only played 40 games together, they still finished two wins better than we did. And they might be the one team that can beat Denver in a series. They beat them in the one game they had all 3 of their guys, something we haven’t done since 2022
We’ll see how it pans out over the next few seasons but in terms of their Big 3 not playing many games together, that’s simply baked in to the team they constructed. Beal hasn’t played more than 60 games in a season since the 18-19 year. Durant has been pretty brittle the last few years and is getting into his late 30s. Booker has missed double digit games in nearly every year of his career. This is probably always going to be a thing, and they have very little wiggle room to improve their roster going forward. That’s an awful lot of money and future sacrifice for a team that might but likely won’t beat Denver in a series.
All fair points, but is age/durability of the stars any less baked-in to our strategy? I might be in the minority of people who think the Suns are doing it right. You have a top-10 all time player in KD and an all-pro in Booker and they play well together. It’s rare for a franchise to have that, and if you do, you go for it. Just like the Mavs did this season and the Celtics are now with KP and Jrue extensions pushing them to the second apron. The clippers will be here soon with the PG extension. Ishbia might have been an outlier this season but he might soon be the norm for contenders.
Keep in mind the Lakers won 5 titles with Kobe while being the highest spending team every year, something virtually every franchise but the Knicks couldn’t stomach. It’s flipped now. We are the queasy ones. The Lakers aren’t the Thunder compensating for spending reluctance with a talented front office. We can neither outspend nor outthink the other teams.
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