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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | levon wrote: | | and one more |
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For crying out loud . . .
YESSSSSS!
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Mamba Mentality
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Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3078
Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Finally. AH to the rescue
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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JM, you did that on purpose! 
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Kobe_Is_King13
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Joined: 16 Jul 2018
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just gotta say this....
The posture of some fans as it regards to KD's and Kyrie's desire to have significant input in the direction of a franchise they brought relevance to is concerning.
If you've ever worked at a job where you provide significant value to the organization it's really not all that dissimilar. The more valuable you are to your employer the more power you have within the organization.
The Nets were worth 1.8 billion in 2017 prior to Kyrie and KD deciding to play there. Today they are worth approximately 3.2 billion. They saw a single season increase of 400 million in value in 2018 then a 700 million increase in 2021.
Yes, some of that is market related as they play in New York. But it's undeniable that KD and Kyrie deciding to play there has led to massive increases in the value of the Nets. They make the Nets a legitimate contender and both are in the top 10 in jersey sales for the entire NBA. They're huge financial influx drivers.
Comparing them to your children having an attitude is completely ridiculous. Your kids cost you money, they don't earn you hundreds of millions of dollars.....typically. Yes they have a contract, but contract are broken and/or amended all the time by businesses.
I just dislike the tone of some of these comments. I get that seeing these guys dictate terms to teams may be frustrating at times but is it that much different than Jerry Krause deciding to break up a championship team over his ego? |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: |
The Nets were worth 1.8 billion in 2017 prior to Kyrie and KD deciding to play there. Today they are worth approximately 3.2 billion. They saw a single season increase of 400 million in value in 2018 then a 700 million increase in 2021.
Yes, some of that is market related as they play in New York. But it's undeniable that KD and Kyrie deciding to play there has led to massive increases in the value of the Nets. |
The impact that Durant and Irving personally had on the Nets valuation increase was probably modest at best.
NBA franchise values on paper have all increase dramatically between 2017 and 2022.
If you go by Forbes, the average NBA franchise increased in value during that span from $1.36 billion to $2.48 billion. So the percentage of the Nets increase is about the same as every other team.
The specific players on a team's roster at any given time don't really affect valuation as much as you imagine. Players come and go, but NBA franchise values continue to go up, and up, and up.
The Nets had a significant increase in value on paper in the several years before Durant and Irving joined the team as well.
If they are both traded tomorrow, the franchise's value on paper is unlikely to be affected at all. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46950
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| If you see what Nets fans would say if you told him how the team would do if both Durant and Irving were traded and they bought back a somewhat average package they would still have a very decent roster according to them, probably even better then some of the playoff teams in the EC. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If you see what Nets fans would say if you told him how the team would do if both Durant and Irving were traded and they bought back a somewhat average package they would still have a very decent roster according to them, probably even better then some of the playoff teams in the EC. |
I think this proves the age-old saying that any GM who listens to fans is an idiot. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes activeverb the reality is .. yes GMs do listen to fans, I heard a couple of years ago that a GM was browsing RealGM, I heard Mitch was lurking LG back in the day, GMs also like hearing what fans have to say when a team is talking with a rival on a trade possibility in case they don’t want a major blacklash. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32216
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| It's time to start issuing some bans for intentional bullsh*t. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | It's time to start issuing some bans for intentional bullsh*t. |
Who are you referring to? |
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hydrohead
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 4126
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | It's time to start issuing some bans for intentional bullsh*t. |
It’s sad to see the poster evolve into a non- constructive troll.
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Hero Ball
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Joined: 26 May 2015
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Hero Ball wrote: | <snip>
Does not apply to most professions. For example, what's your profession? |
They're having the CPA draft on Friday at Noon, followed by the Truck Driver draft at 2 p.m. and the Plumber draft at 4 p.m.
My son is a prospective lottery pick in the Lawyer draft on Saturday. I've informed all the white shoe firms by letter to not draft him. He's only going to sign with Jacob Emrani,
otherwise he'll go back to school and pick up an MBA. |
Ah, Thanks for mentioning another labor "anomaly" from the world of sports-the Draft.
| Quote: | | Would we tell the a once-in-a-lifetime engineering grad who wants to negotiate a position and salary at the top tech firm in the Silicon Valley, "No, actually, you're required to work for the sector's laughingstock, a company managed by incompetents with no clear vision of the future -- at a fixed salary that's set by a third party." Yet this is the governing philosophy every spring when the NBA distributes members of the incoming draft class to the league's 30 teams. |
| Quote: | | There's a line of thinking that says drafts are simply not fair—to the players, first and foremost—that they violate that the concept of a free labor market, and that they are therefore essentially un-American. |
| Quote: | | "The sports draft is an anomaly of the American labor market." After all, "In most industries new hires are free to seek employment wherever there's an opening." Yet an aspiring employee who wants to play in the NFL is able to negotiate a contract with only the team that has drafted him. |
| Quote: | | As things currently stand, draftees have no such freedom to decide where they want to work. They also face tons of other restrictions, including how old they must be before they're eligible to be drafted (i.e., be hired for what they do and earn money), and how much money they can earn due to NFL collective bargaining agreements severely limiting the salaries of young players. |
| Quote: | | Basketball players seeking employment in the NBA face essentially the same set of restrictions—restrictions that are, again, unheard of in virtually every other line of work. |
LINK
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Trade AD now.
Last edited by Hero Ball on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58424
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Oh the offseason.  |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54021
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | It's time to start issuing some bans for intentional bullsh*t. |
It’s sad to see the poster evolve into a non- constructive troll. |
A true unraveling.
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Nets owner "liked" Kevin's tweet about not retiring.
The retirement stuff came from Marc Stein, who somehow gets a pass unlike Ric Butcher. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | The Nets were worth 1.8 billion in 2017 prior to Kyrie and KD deciding to play there. Today they are worth approximately 3.2 billion. They saw a single season increase of 400 million in value in 2018 then a 700 million increase in 2021.
Yes, some of that is market related as they play in New York. But it's undeniable that KD and Kyrie deciding to play there has led to massive increases in the value of the Nets. They make the Nets a legitimate contender and both are in the top 10 in jersey sales for the entire NBA. They're huge financial influx drivers. |
Not only is it deniable, but it's wrong. The players don't have much effect on the value of a franchise. Take a look at the Sacramento Kings. They sold for $534M in 2013, and now they are worth more than $2B. Or look at the Detroit Pistons, a bad team in a bad market. Forbes valued them at $400M in 2013, but $1.6M today.
Players come and players go. Winning may have a temporary effect on the value of a franchise, but franchise values don't drop after a losing season. Otherwise, you'd find the Knicks in the bottom of a box of Cracker Jacks.
Sports franchises are long-term investments that are going to be driven by long-term factors like location, arenas, and exposure. Players and winning can have a temporary effect on revenues and the like. But jersey sales don't have a big effect on franchise values. From the perspective of a franchise investor, things like that are just fleeting. In 2030, Joe Tsai will probably still own the Nets, but Durant and Irving will be retired. The Nets will be selling someone else's jersey in their gift shops.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Hero Ball wrote: |
That's the problem with athlete's contracts in my opinion.
They are like slaves to some degree.
Most professionals like doctors, lawyers etc. can resign anytime and restart his profession with another company freely.
Athletes need to be a free agent to do so. |
Not slave, these are guaranteed contracts. Other professionals you listed gets unguaranteed salaries, there's plus and minus on both |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Sam Amick of The Athletic:
| Quote: | This is some next-level boldness from Durant, to say the least. And while he made it clear (via Twitter) on Monday that speculation about his possible retirement is off-base, the ironic question now becomes: If a trade doesn’t materialize before Nets camp begins in late September, is Durant willing to go full Jimmy Butler if he doesn’t get what he wants? Or, perhaps, will he go the route of his Nets teammate Simmons and not report to camp (as Simmons did in Philadelphia last season)?
Most folks around the league with whom I spoke seem to believe the answer is no, but we shall see. As for the notion that the Marks-Nash ultimatum might speed up the process by forcing the Nets to lower their lofty demands in a deal, I didn’t find much support for that idea either. |
| Quote: | So what does history tell us?
Star player trades (typically) take a while
While there are examples on both ends of the timeline spectrum, the average length of time with these examples is 88.4 days. As it stands, Durant is six weeks into this latest star saga. Among this group, Anthony’s situation (six months) took the longest to resolve, followed by Simmons (five and a half months).
Star players (typically) ask out later in their respective contracts
Of the 10 players cited, only Simmons (who was entering Year 2 and had four seasons left on his deal) asked out with more than two seasons left on his deal (with player options factored in). Of those nine, five asked out entering their second-to-last season or during it (Howard, Davis, Harden, Irving and George), and the other four (Anthony, Paul, Leonard and Butler) waited until the summer heading into that final campaign on their deal to request a trade.
In theory, that Durant has four years left on his deal should incentivize suitors to put even more on the table to secure his services. But in reality, no team should want Durant on its roster if he doesn’t want to be there. No team can afford to give up a treasure trove of players and assets only to see Durant either unhappy or, even worse, sitting out.
Star players don’t always get what they want
Of the 10 players highlighted, nine had preferred destinations that were either known at the time of the trade request or were revealed after the deal was done (Simmons was the outlier). Of that group, four were traded to a team that was known to be a top preference (Anthony, Davis, Harden and Irving) while five (Paul, Howard, Leonard, Butler and George) were not. |
https://theathletic.com/3509122/2022/08/16/kevin-durant-trade-request-nba-players/
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Not slave, these are guaranteed contracts. |
When it comes to the contracts of pro athletes, references to slavery are the equivalent of Godwin's Law. Everyone should know that the horrors of slavery have no comparison to the lives of pro athletes. It's just a reference made for shock value. Let's not dignify the comparison.
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Not slave, these are guaranteed contracts. |
When it comes to the contracts of pro athletes, references to slavery are the equivalent of Godwin's Law. Everyone should know that the horrors of slavery have no comparison to the lives of pro athletes. It's just a reference made for shock value. Let's not dignify the comparison. |
got me googling godwin's law but yes |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Sam Amick of The Athletic:
| Quote: | This is some next-level boldness from Durant, to say the least. And while he made it clear (via Twitter) on Monday that speculation about his possible retirement is off-base, the ironic question now becomes: If a trade doesn’t materialize before Nets camp begins in late September, is Durant willing to go full Jimmy Butler if he doesn’t get what he wants? Or, perhaps, will he go the route of his Nets teammate Simmons and not report to camp (as Simmons did in Philadelphia last season)?
Most folks around the league with whom I spoke seem to believe the answer is no, but we shall see. As for the notion that the Marks-Nash ultimatum might speed up the process by forcing the Nets to lower their lofty demands in a deal, I didn’t find much support for that idea either. |
| Quote: | So what does history tell us?
Star player trades (typically) take a while
While there are examples on both ends of the timeline spectrum, the average length of time with these examples is 88.4 days. As it stands, Durant is six weeks into this latest star saga. Among this group, Anthony’s situation (six months) took the longest to resolve, followed by Simmons (five and a half months).
Star players (typically) ask out later in their respective contracts
Of the 10 players cited, only Simmons (who was entering Year 2 and had four seasons left on his deal) asked out with more than two seasons left on his deal (with player options factored in). Of those nine, five asked out entering their second-to-last season or during it (Howard, Davis, Harden, Irving and George), and the other four (Anthony, Paul, Leonard and Butler) waited until the summer heading into that final campaign on their deal to request a trade.
In theory, that Durant has four years left on his deal should incentivize suitors to put even more on the table to secure his services. But in reality, no team should want Durant on its roster if he doesn’t want to be there. No team can afford to give up a treasure trove of players and assets only to see Durant either unhappy or, even worse, sitting out.
Star players don’t always get what they want
Of the 10 players highlighted, nine had preferred destinations that were either known at the time of the trade request or were revealed after the deal was done (Simmons was the outlier). Of that group, four were traded to a team that was known to be a top preference (Anthony, Davis, Harden and Irving) while five (Paul, Howard, Leonard, Butler and George) were not. |
https://theathletic.com/3509122/2022/08/16/kevin-durant-trade-request-nba-players/ |
A part of me wants the Nets to not trade KD, just to see what this guy, who "just loves to ball" will do.
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 44135
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: |
A part of me wants the Nets to not trade KD |
We all want that.
I don't want Kevin Durant on the Suns. I don't want Kevin Durant on the Celtics. |
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Bron2AD
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Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9508
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | epic_ wrote: |
A part of me wants the Nets to not trade KD |
We all want that.
I don't want Kevin Durant on the Suns. I don't want Kevin Durant on the Celtics. |
so we are scared of competition and want to win an easy ring? |
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daytripper
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 1208
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | epic_ wrote: |
A part of me wants the Nets to not trade KD |
We all want that.
I don't want Kevin Durant on the Suns. I don't want Kevin Durant on the Celtics. |
so we are scared of competition and want to win an easy ring? |
Personally I don't want to see the crybaby get his way. It really has nothing to do with the Lakers. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Sam Amick of The Athletic:
| Quote: | This is some next-level boldness from Durant, to say the least. And while he made it clear (via Twitter) on Monday that speculation about his possible retirement is off-base, the ironic question now becomes: If a trade doesn’t materialize before Nets camp begins in late September, is Durant willing to go full Jimmy Butler if he doesn’t get what he wants? Or, perhaps, will he go the route of his Nets teammate Simmons and not report to camp (as Simmons did in Philadelphia last season)?
Most folks around the league with whom I spoke seem to believe the answer is no, but we shall see. As for the notion that the Marks-Nash ultimatum might speed up the process by forcing the Nets to lower their lofty demands in a deal, I didn’t find much support for that idea either. |
| Quote: | So what does history tell us?
Star player trades (typically) take a while
While there are examples on both ends of the timeline spectrum, the average length of time with these examples is 88.4 days. As it stands, Durant is six weeks into this latest star saga. Among this group, Anthony’s situation (six months) took the longest to resolve, followed by Simmons (five and a half months).
Star players (typically) ask out later in their respective contracts
Of the 10 players cited, only Simmons (who was entering Year 2 and had four seasons left on his deal) asked out with more than two seasons left on his deal (with player options factored in). Of those nine, five asked out entering their second-to-last season or during it (Howard, Davis, Harden, Irving and George), and the other four (Anthony, Paul, Leonard and Butler) waited until the summer heading into that final campaign on their deal to request a trade.
In theory, that Durant has four years left on his deal should incentivize suitors to put even more on the table to secure his services. But in reality, no team should want Durant on its roster if he doesn’t want to be there. No team can afford to give up a treasure trove of players and assets only to see Durant either unhappy or, even worse, sitting out.
Star players don’t always get what they want
Of the 10 players highlighted, nine had preferred destinations that were either known at the time of the trade request or were revealed after the deal was done (Simmons was the outlier). Of that group, four were traded to a team that was known to be a top preference (Anthony, Davis, Harden and Irving) while five (Paul, Howard, Leonard, Butler and George) were not. |
https://theathletic.com/3509122/2022/08/16/kevin-durant-trade-request-nba-players/ |
And he is leaving out that sometimes the player who demands to be traded isn't traded ever. |
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