I actually view this as making it very low chance of Durant being traded because he has been paid half his salary already and the next part before the season starts. They might as well just keep him for the year
If that's the case we probably paid half of Russ's salary and that's not going to keep us from trading him.
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it
Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts
Could not be more out on this guy. Please do the smarter deal of Hield/Turner, Lakers.
Same. Taking a guy with his mindset and putting him in Los Angeles just doesn't seem destined to end well. We'll get around 50 games from him with him taking about 40 of those seriously. We'll probably draw bad playoff matchups and he'll probably start to check out around the 2nd round, if we even make it that far.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hield, but I want no part of Kyrie after all this.
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it
Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts
Could not be more out on this guy. Please do the smarter deal of Hield/Turner, Lakers.
Same. Taking a guy with his mindset and putting him in Los Angeles just doesn't seem destined to end well. We'll get around 50 games from him with him taking about 40 of those seriously. We'll probably draw bad playoff matchups and he'll probably start to check out around the 2nd round, if we even make it that far.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hield, but I want no part of Kyrie after all this.
He's talented as hell but the guy has zero hunger and he'll be 31-34 during the length of his extension. He'll only check out more and find more excuses to miss long stretches of games. He's a terrible partner for AD. Do people not see how bad situations have deteriorated on his last two teams? It's suddenly going to be great here?
If the Lakers still pursue this over the obviously smarter trade, it just goes to show you that Rob/Rambis have little relative basketball knowledge compared to the rest of the league and that getting a big name is the only determining factor of being a good GM.
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12165 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:14 am Post subject:
pjiddy wrote:
EZ-Ryder wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
governator wrote:
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it
Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts
Could not be more out on this guy. Please do the smarter deal of Hield/Turner, Lakers.
Same. Taking a guy with his mindset and putting him in Los Angeles just doesn't seem destined to end well. We'll get around 50 games from him with him taking about 40 of those seriously. We'll probably draw bad playoff matchups and he'll probably start to check out around the 2nd round, if we even make it that far.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hield, but I want no part of Kyrie after all this.
He's talented as hell but the guy has zero hunger and he'll be 31-34 during the length of his extension. He'll only check out more and find more excuses to miss long stretches of games. He's a terrible partner for AD. Do people not see how bad situations have deteriorated on his last two teams? It's suddenly going to be great here?
If the Lakers still pursue this over the obviously smarter trade, it just goes to show you that Rob/Rambis have little relative basketball knowledge compared to the rest of the league and that getting a big name is the only determining factor of being a good GM.
Totally agree, regarding Kyrie.
Lots of folks are hungry for this roster to improve, I get that totally. I also see the need to get rid of Westbrook. Kyrie has been an oddball for years. He does whatever he wants, when he wants......that's the fear. I don't think it's hunger, it's just the way the dude is wired.
If true, I don't get the whole "inhumane" if playing back to back games.
Last time I checked, Kyrie is making tens of millions of dollars to play a freakin' sport.
I bust my ass to support a wife and three teenage kids. Do I work back to back days? Yes, I freaking do......stop whining, Kyrie. You play a sport for a living getting paid more in a year than I will ever see in my life time.
So, with that....perhaps the Hield trade or anything else to improve the roster is the better deal. I would expect Davis to be a different player this coming year. Critics have been roasting him and it appears, from all that I have read, he is really doing some work on his entire body...
So, I digress....
I don't want to see any headcase, distracting players on this team this coming year. I don't want the sitting out games, leaving for personal reason, anti-vaxxing, world is flat, fire up the sage, weirdo dude, on this team.
If true, I don't get the whole "inhumane" if playing back to back games.
Last time I checked, Kyrie is making tens of millions of dollars to play a freakin' sport.
I bust my ass to support a wife and three teenage kids. Do I work back to back days? Yes, I freaking do......stop whining, Kyrie. You play a sport for a living getting paid more in a year than I will ever see in my life time.
My assessment is:
1. Bucher has a real source in the Nets organization.
2. The source has an axe to grind with some folks, as we saw with the Ben Simmons story.
3. As a result, some of this stuff may be exaggerated, blown out of proportion, or even fabricated. That's just a risk of doing business for a guy like Bucher.
4. As fans, we shouldn't take this stuff literally unless and until it gets confirmed. However, if the Lakers actually wind up looking at a real deal for Irving, Pelinka needs to ask the Nets whether this is true. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
A few things to consider: Russ’s 47.1m deal can bring back as much as 59m in salary. So for example Russ’s deal alone can bring back Ky’s 36.9m + Myles 18m with roughly 4m to spare in bringing in additional salary. Or we can swap out Myles 18m for Buddy’s 21.2m instead. Imho sending out our ‘27 & ‘29 1sts would be well worth it in bringing in Ky/Myles. But that would be an absolute dream scenario since our assets are so limited.
If we had the draft capital, it probably coujd be possible. But unfortunately we are only allowed to trade our ‘27 & ‘29 1st rounders (Stepien rule prohibits trading any picks in consecutive years where the team is left without 1st round picks in both those years, hence picks traded every other year ie ‘27/‘29. Also picks cannot be traded outside the next 7 years, hence we’re only able to trade up till our ‘29 1st being that it’s 7 years away & we’re in the 2022/23 season. Our 2024 1st can be deferred to 2025, which means we can’t trade the 2026 1st in case NO deferred our pick to 2025 (Stepien consecutive year rule). So that only opens up the ‘27 & ‘29 picks for us to trade even though we our 2023 1st (after NO for the better one), one of either our 2024 or 2025 1st and our 2026 1st. So we have 3 1sts in the next 4 years, it’s just that we can’t trade any of them right now. But we can add an even lower swap to the 2023 pick and can offer swap rights to our 2026 & 2028 1sts. We can also include a condition where a team can either swap out for our 2024 or 2025 1st depending on which pick NO decides to keep between the two.
So as of right NOW, we can offer up to 2 unprotected FRPs and 4 swap rights till 2029.
Also, as of August 7th, MaxC’s 1m rookie min deal can now be a traded/aggregated within a package deal. That also applies to all the other rookie deals that were signed after the 2022 draft.
Also, let’s say Russ stays in BK if both KD and Ky are outbound, then they most likely keep our 2 FRPs (‘27/‘29). We can still possibly entice Indy in a 3 way for either Buddy or Myles by offering up THT and up to 4 swap rights. FYI Haliburton and THT ran together in college. Also in the case of THT for Buddy, Indy could look at it as trading a 2yr deal for a pseudo expiring if THT ejects to use his player option (PO) to opt out next summer. However if Indy is interested in keeping him, they may frown upon acquiring that PO as well.
One last thing to note, Pritchard and Rob have history…and it ain’t good. But Pritchard also traded Paul George for potential ballers in Dipo/Sabonis without demanding any FRPs from Okc. So there’s a man outside shot at getting something from Indy without giving up our current tradeable FRPs. Wound THT/MaxC + a few swap rights be enough?
If somehow KD goes to Pels, maybe we can have Pels change our AD deal a little bit aka pick the year they want the swap, maybe for a 2nd rounder from Nets or something which we would replenish back to Nets (is this allowed?) then we'd give '27&'29 FRPs for Kyrie and the newly available pick to Indy for Kyrie, Seth, Turner or if Rob is the redeemer, Kyrie, Seth, Buddy, Turner (THT/Nunn/whatever salary not named Reaves going out, but then can you have Buddy and Kyrie next yr? sounds like not enough $ to resign Kyrie), ok, nuff am rant
Good question Gov.
Yeah we can be looped into a BK-Pels trade where they get KD. We don’t even have to send salaried players in that potential 3team trade. All we have to do is send some incentive (2nd round picks and or other pick swaps) where NO relaxes their current deferment option on our 2024/25 1sts and just picks one right now to unlock the movement of our 2023 1st in a trade right now. So in effect they will then own 2 of our FRPs (2023 & 2025) instead of just 1 & a swap.
For example, we can throw both our and Chicago’s 2023 2nd rounders to the Pels for them to amend the deferment conditions where they pick our 2025 1st and can then package (1, 2) both their and our 2023 1sts along with (3, 4) both our and their 2025 1sts and still add even (5, 6) both their and Milwaukee’s 2027 1sts and (7) their 2029 1st. So the Pels can effectively trade up to 7 FRPs for KD right now by amending that deferment condition on our 2024 1st.
If they do that, maybe BK then throws us a bone and includes either a heavily protected FRP (they have Philly’s 2027) or includes the lesser in the pick swaps they currently have (2023 1st Htown or Philly).
It’s with whatever we get from that deal that we can include to our other trading partners in the Ky aspect of the trade (ie 2024 1st pick swap unlocked as well as whatever draft capital we can get from the Pels/BK KD trade).
Also, with the aggregated salary of Russ/THT/Nunn, we can bring back as much as 78.4m in salary. So for example Ky/Myles/Buddy combine fit an incoming salary of 76.1m. If you also wanted to bring in Seth Curry as well, we would have to add roughly 5m to Russ/THT/Nunn…so we would have to nearly fully guarantee Gabriel’s entire 1.9m deal and include MaxC & Stan’s deals in order to have enough salary to match for a hypothetical Ky/Myles/Buddy/Seth return (ie a 6 for 4 trade).
Lastly, if we do trade for any player right now, we gain their bird rights for next summer. So we could resign all of our potential FAs (ie Bron, Ky, Myles, Seth) next offseason without any regard to having cap space or not. The only thing stopping it though would be ownership’s willingness to spend and enter the repeater tax bracket.
I mean $ is $ and it's not my $ but look at this closing line up and how solid the back ups are on all positions
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12165 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:46 am Post subject:
krisobe wrote:
governator wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Apologies for not getting to this earlier.
A few things to consider: Russ’s 47.1m deal can bring back as much as 59m in salary. So for example Russ’s deal alone can bring back Ky’s 36.9m + Myles 18m with roughly 4m to spare in bringing in additional salary. Or we can swap out Myles 18m for Buddy’s 21.2m instead. Imho sending out our ‘27 & ‘29 1sts would be well worth it in bringing in Ky/Myles. But that would be an absolute dream scenario since our assets are so limited.
If we had the draft capital, it probably coujd be possible. But unfortunately we are only allowed to trade our ‘27 & ‘29 1st rounders (Stepien rule prohibits trading any picks in consecutive years where the team is left without 1st round picks in both those years, hence picks traded every other year ie ‘27/‘29. Also picks cannot be traded outside the next 7 years, hence we’re only able to trade up till our ‘29 1st being that it’s 7 years away & we’re in the 2022/23 season. Our 2024 1st can be deferred to 2025, which means we can’t trade the 2026 1st in case NO deferred our pick to 2025 (Stepien consecutive year rule). So that only opens up the ‘27 & ‘29 picks for us to trade even though we our 2023 1st (after NO for the better one), one of either our 2024 or 2025 1st and our 2026 1st. So we have 3 1sts in the next 4 years, it’s just that we can’t trade any of them right now. But we can add an even lower swap to the 2023 pick and can offer swap rights to our 2026 & 2028 1sts. We can also include a condition where a team can either swap out for our 2024 or 2025 1st depending on which pick NO decides to keep between the two.
So as of right NOW, we can offer up to 2 unprotected FRPs and 4 swap rights till 2029.
Also, as of August 7th, MaxC’s 1m rookie min deal can now be a traded/aggregated within a package deal. That also applies to all the other rookie deals that were signed after the 2022 draft.
Also, let’s say Russ stays in BK if both KD and Ky are outbound, then they most likely keep our 2 FRPs (‘27/‘29). We can still possibly entice Indy in a 3 way for either Buddy or Myles by offering up THT and up to 4 swap rights. FYI Haliburton and THT ran together in college. Also in the case of THT for Buddy, Indy could look at it as trading a 2yr deal for a pseudo expiring if THT ejects to use his player option (PO) to opt out next summer. However if Indy is interested in keeping him, they may frown upon acquiring that PO as well.
One last thing to note, Pritchard and Rob have history…and it ain’t good. But Pritchard also traded Paul George for potential ballers in Dipo/Sabonis without demanding any FRPs from Okc. So there’s a man outside shot at getting something from Indy without giving up our current tradeable FRPs. Wound THT/MaxC + a few swap rights be enough?
If somehow KD goes to Pels, maybe we can have Pels change our AD deal a little bit aka pick the year they want the swap, maybe for a 2nd rounder from Nets or something which we would replenish back to Nets (is this allowed?) then we'd give '27&'29 FRPs for Kyrie and the newly available pick to Indy for Kyrie, Seth, Turner or if Rob is the redeemer, Kyrie, Seth, Buddy, Turner (THT/Nunn/whatever salary not named Reaves going out, but then can you have Buddy and Kyrie next yr? sounds like not enough $ to resign Kyrie), ok, nuff am rant
Good question Gov.
Yeah we can be looped into a BK-Pels trade where they get KD. We don’t even have to send salaried players in that potential 3team trade. All we have to do is send some incentive (2nd round picks and or other pick swaps) where NO relaxes their current deferment option on our 2024/25 1sts and just picks one right now to unlock the movement of our 2023 1st in a trade right now. So in effect they will then own 2 of our FRPs (2023 & 2025) instead of just 1 & a swap.
For example, we can throw both our and Chicago’s 2023 2nd rounders to the Pels for them to amend the deferment conditions where they pick our 2025 1st and can then package (1, 2) both their and our 2023 1sts along with (3, 4) both our and their 2025 1sts and still add even (5, 6) both their and Milwaukee’s 2027 1sts and (7) their 2029 1st. So the Pels can effectively trade up to 7 FRPs for KD right now by amending that deferment condition on our 2024 1st.
If they do that, maybe BK then throws us a bone and includes either a heavily protected FRP (they have Philly’s 2027) or includes the lesser in the pick swaps they currently have (2023 1st Htown or Philly).
It’s with whatever we get from that deal that we can include to our other trading partners in the Ky aspect of the trade (ie 2024 1st pick swap unlocked as well as whatever draft capital we can get from the Pels/BK KD trade).
Also, with the aggregated salary of Russ/THT/Nunn, we can bring back as much as 78.4m in salary. So for example Ky/Myles/Buddy combine fit an incoming salary of 76.1m. If you also wanted to bring in Seth Curry as well, we would have to add roughly 5m to Russ/THT/Nunn…so we would have to nearly fully guarantee Gabriel’s entire 1.9m deal and include MaxC & Stan’s deals in order to have enough salary to match for a hypothetical Ky/Myles/Buddy/Seth return (ie a 6 for 4 trade).
Lastly, if we do trade for any player right now, we gain their bird rights for next summer. So we could resign all of our potential FAs (ie Bron, Ky, Myles, Seth) next offseason without any regard to having cap space or not. The only thing stopping it though would be ownership’s willingness to spend and enter the repeater tax bracket.
I mean $ is $ and it's not my $ but look at this closing line up and how solid the back ups are on all positions
I agree, INSANE.
But, I feel this is just a total pipe dream.
How are the Lakers going to get Kyrie, Buddy, Myles, Schoeder?
I think that's INSANE right there....
Would love it, yes but how?
I agree, INSANE.
But, I feel this is just a total pipe dream.
How are the Lakers going to get Kyrie, Buddy, Myles, Schoeder?
I think that's INSANE right there....
Would love it, yes but how?
A trade proposal on LG that is a pipe dream? Can that even happen?
Nets fans realizing 34 year old Kevin Durant is only worth 25 year old Brandon Ingram without the additional 4 first round picks. It makes me think Phoenix (26 year old Cam Johnson) and Boston (26 year old Jaylen Brown) offers won't include first round picks. I think the Nets lose this trade, badly.
Nets fans realizing 34 year old Kevin Durant is only worth 25 year old Brandon Ingram without the additional 4 first round picks. It makes me think Phoenix (26 year old Cam Johnson) and Boston (26 year old Jaylen Brown) offers won't include first round picks. I think the Nets lose this trade, badly.
The Nets “losing the trade” assumes the Nets are going to take the best offer, whatever he is.
My guess is if the trade offers don’t reach a certain threshold, the Nets will just hang onto Durant.
In fact, I think by leaking the stories about the meeting, Durant all but ensured he won't be traded anytime soon.
Nets fans realizing 34 year old Kevin Durant is only worth 25 year old Brandon Ingram without the additional 4 first round picks. It makes me think Phoenix (26 year old Cam Johnson) and Boston (26 year old Jaylen Brown) offers won't include first round picks. I think the Nets lose this trade, badly.
The Nets “losing the trade” assumes the Nets are going to take the best offer, whatever he is.
My guess is if the trade offers don’t reach a certain threshold, the Nets will just hang onto Durant.
In fact, I think by leaking the stories about the meeting, Durant all but ensured he won't be traded anytime soon.
Yep. It seems like a lot of people underrate the ability of Tsai and the Nets to say "No" to whatever deals are out there. This reminds me of last year, when the pundits and anonymous sources were saying that the Sixers needed to ship out Simmons for whatever was on offer. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject:
JUST-MING wrote:
That's fair. I prefer Thomas Bryant.
01-03-2021
The box outs. The screens. The get open around the basket for a dump off a la Antawn Jamison. Most importantly, the defensive rebounds at the end of the video. We lost so many games last season because we were unable to do that.
Unfortunately you would be lucky to get 50 games out of either of them. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I actually view this as making it very low chance of Durant being traded because he has been paid half his salary already and the next part before the season starts. They might as well just keep him for the year
It certainly doesn’t have anything to do with him sitting out games. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:10 pm Post subject:
JUST-MING wrote:
Nets fans realizing 34 year old Kevin Durant is only worth 25 year old Brandon Ingram without the additional 4 first round picks. It makes me think Phoenix (26 year old Cam Johnson) and Boston (26 year old Jaylen Brown) offers won't include first round picks. I think the Nets lose this trade, badly.
Nets don’t make a trade if they are losing it. Durant will just need to grow a pair and honor his word. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I actually view this as making it very low chance of Durant being traded because he has been paid half his salary already and the next part before the season starts. They might as well just keep him for the year
I would think that the league has taken this into account, and if a player is prepaid a lot of his contract and is traded, the team receiving him would have to compensate the other team for the prepayment. But that may be a question for our CBA expert, vasashi17+
Why wasn't number 24 retired for all NBA teams as well?
Bill Russell's number is being retired because he was a pioneer in the league's early days, he was a civil rights activist, and he had unparalleled team success.
Kobe was a great player, but there really isn't any more reason to retire his number league-wide than to retire Bird's, Magic's, Wilt's, Shaq's, Duncan's, Oscar's, and the numbers of other guys on the goat short-list.
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it
Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts
Nets fans realizing 34 year old Kevin Durant is only worth 25 year old Brandon Ingram without the additional 4 first round picks. It makes me think Phoenix (26 year old Cam Johnson) and Boston (26 year old Jaylen Brown) offers won't include first round picks. I think the Nets lose this trade, badly.
Nets don’t make a trade if they are losing it. Durant will just need to grow a pair and honor his word.
It’s interesting timing too with the CBA mutual opt out date coming up in December 15. From July:
The NBA and the National Basketball Players Association each have the option to opt out of the league's current collective bargaining agreement by Dec. 15. If they do so, the two sides will have to negotiate a new CBA ahead of the 2023-24 season.
After the league's Board of Governors met Tuesday in Las Vegas, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver spoke with reporters and hinted at some of the potential pain points in those upcoming discussions, including players requesting trades, load management and changing the eligibility age for the NBA draft.
When asked about Kevin Durant's recent trade request from the Brooklyn Nets, Silver made it clear that he isn't happy with it playing out so publicly.
"Look, this needs to be a two-way street," he said. "Teams provide enormous security and guarantees to the players, and the expectation is in return, that they'll meet their end of the bargain. I'm realistic that there's always conversations that are gonna go on behind closed doors between players and their representatives and the teams, but we don't like to see players requesting trades, and we don't like to see it playing out the way it is."
Durant isn't the first star to request a trade while under contract in recent years. Ben Simmons did so last year, while Anthony Davis made it clear to the New Orleans Pelicans that he wouldn't re-sign with them once he became a free agent in 2019.
Silved noted that when a star player does request a trade, it has ripple effects not only for that player and his own team, but other players and other teams as well. However, he was less clear about a potential solution in the next CBA.
"We intend to discuss with our players association to see if there are remedies for this," he added. "Again, as I said, there will never be a case where players won't be unhappy in certain situations, but we don't want to see it playing out the way it is now. And I think it is something where there is mutuality of interest between the players collectively and the league in having more stability. So that's something we'll be discussing with the union."
Teams might use these high-profile situations to angle for reduced guarantees on contracts, but that will likely be a non-starter for the players' union. The league could push to prohibit certain players from requesting trades for a given time period—i.e., players who sign a designated max contract can't request a trade until the third or fourth year of said deal—but the players' union would likely push back hard against that, too.
Silver isn't naïve enough to believe that the league can abolish trade requests altogether, but it does seem to be a major point of focus heading into CBA negotiations.
"I am hopeful… that not necessarily we're going to eliminate players asking to be moved, but we can find a way to move the attention back on the court," he said.
_________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
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