NEW GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:39 am    Post subject:

This whole thing is a mess. Nets fans want to keep Kevin and trade for Lebron.

Nets fans

    I would make the move for Lebron. And it is not because I am some Lebron fan boy, because I think it is some cant miss move or because I think Ben is un-salvageable.

    I make it for one reason and one reason only. It increases our odds in the KD title window of winning a title. I love the idea that Ben bridges the KD era to whatever the next era is. But i'm just not confident in that. Not having missed 1+ years. not with the nets historic bad luck on these things.

    I also think Fans don't realize that it may be 20+ years before we have a top 3 player again. those dont come easy. even if they want to be on your team. Jason Kidd was the closest we had prior to Durant, that was 22 years ago. We can get great players, we can build great teams. when you get a top 3 guy, go for it for as long as you can. Rebuilds are hard.. even ones with talent (Look at philly, look at minny, look at new orleans, etc...).

    Lebron fits great. Plays the Harden role of defacto PG. Rebounds. defends 2 through 5. is still elite in transition. can carry the scoring load if needed. protects the rim. He needs more nights off.. but he could get that here. doesnt need to carry scoring like he did in LA. or carry wins like he did in LA (KD can carry better then AD, by a wide margin).

    Lebron is also the most influential guy in the league. we would get better minimum guys, we would increase the view of our franchise. we would, in the shorterm, overcome the knicks in popularity (in a real way, not the fake way the past year or so). We would attract future young people to want to wear a nets uniform. we would finally get BS whistles in our favor.

    Also, he expires/retires sooner and at some point you cant carry 3 supermaxes.

    *****

    If you run stable program in a big market, star players always will come over. This far player friendly environment that Marks created proved to work.

    Thinking LBJ can maximize chances of winning title with KD and Kyrie is absurd to me. He can't even get them into playoffs. Also how much damage will he do if he becomes disgruntled. He's a huge diva. I'll take my chances with younger player who still has upside and complements our star players, which is D and passing.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:41 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:

I have wanted Turner, more than any other player in the league, to play next to AD.


Why?



One word......DEFENSE. The ability for these guys to protect the basket, switch, rebound . These 2 guys would shut the paint down. Guards would be frightened to venture down the lane, with them 2 guys back there. Remember 2020, this would be even better.

With Turners ability to step outside, that will create space for AD on offense.


Myles has never been selected to an all-defense team.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:42 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:


Apologies for not getting to this earlier.

A few things to consider: Russ’s 47.1m deal can bring back as much as 59m in salary. So for example Russ’s deal alone can bring back Ky’s 36.9m + Myles 18m with roughly 4m to spare in bringing in additional salary. Or we can swap out Myles 18m for Buddy’s 21.2m instead. Imho sending out our ‘27 & ‘29 1sts would be well worth it in bringing in Ky/Myles. But that would be an absolute dream scenario since our assets are so limited.

If we had the draft capital, it probably coujd be possible. But unfortunately we are only allowed to trade our ‘27 & ‘29 1st rounders (Stepien rule prohibits trading any picks in consecutive years where the team is left without 1st round picks in both those years, hence picks traded every other year ie ‘27/‘29. Also picks cannot be traded outside the next 7 years, hence we’re only able to trade up till our ‘29 1st being that it’s 7 years away & we’re in the 2022/23 season. Our 2024 1st can be deferred to 2025, which means we can’t trade the 2026 1st in case NO deferred our pick to 2025 (Stepien consecutive year rule). So that only opens up the ‘27 & ‘29 picks for us to trade even though we our 2023 1st (after NO for the better one), one of either our 2024 or 2025 1st and our 2026 1st. So we have 3 1sts in the next 4 years, it’s just that we can’t trade any of them right now. But we can add an even lower swap to the 2023 pick and can offer swap rights to our 2026 & 2028 1sts. We can also include a condition where a team can either swap out for our 2024 or 2025 1st depending on which pick NO decides to keep between the two.

So as of right NOW, we can offer up to 2 unprotected FRPs and 4 swap rights till 2029.

Also, as of August 7th, MaxC’s 1m rookie min deal can now be a traded/aggregated within a package deal. That also applies to all the other rookie deals that were signed after the 2022 draft.

Also, let’s say Russ stays in BK if both KD and Ky are outbound, then they most likely keep our 2 FRPs (‘27/‘29). We can still possibly entice Indy in a 3 way for either Buddy or Myles by offering up THT and up to 4 swap rights. FYI Haliburton and THT ran together in college. Also in the case of THT for Buddy, Indy could look at it as trading a 2yr deal for a pseudo expiring if THT ejects to use his player option (PO) to opt out next summer. However if Indy is interested in keeping him, they may frown upon acquiring that PO as well.

One last thing to note, Pritchard and Rob have history…and it ain’t good. But Pritchard also traded Paul George for potential ballers in Dipo/Sabonis without demanding any FRPs from Okc. So there’s a man outside shot at getting something from Indy without giving up our current tradeable FRPs. Wound THT/MaxC + a few swap rights be enough?


If somehow KD goes to Pels, maybe we can have Pels change our AD deal a little bit aka pick the year they want the swap, maybe for a 2nd rounder from Nets or something which we would replenish back to Nets (is this allowed?) then we'd give '27&'29 FRPs for Kyrie and the newly available pick to Indy for Kyrie, Seth, Turner or if Rob is the redeemer, Kyrie, Seth, Buddy, Turner (THT/Nunn/whatever salary not named Reaves going out, but then can you have Buddy and Kyrie next yr? sounds like not enough $ to resign Kyrie), ok, nuff am rant


Good question Gov.

Yeah we can be looped into a BK-Pels trade where they get KD. We don’t even have to send salaried players in that potential 3team trade. All we have to do is send some incentive (2nd round picks and or other pick swaps) where NO relaxes their current deferment option on our 2024/25 1sts and just picks one right now to unlock the movement of our 2023 1st in a trade right now. So in effect they will then own 2 of our FRPs (2023 & 2025) instead of just 1 & a swap.

For example, we can throw both our and Chicago’s 2023 2nd rounders to the Pels for them to amend the deferment conditions where they pick our 2025 1st and can then package (1, 2) both their and our 2023 1sts along with (3, 4) both our and their 2025 1sts and still add even (5, 6) both their and Milwaukee’s 2027 1sts and (7) their 2029 1st. So the Pels can effectively trade up to 7 FRPs for KD right now by amending that deferment condition on our 2024 1st.

If they do that, maybe BK then throws us a bone and includes either a heavily protected FRP (they have Philly’s 2027) or includes the lesser in the pick swaps they currently have (2023 1st Htown or Philly).

It’s with whatever we get from that deal that we can include to our other trading partners in the Ky aspect of the trade (ie 2024 1st pick swap unlocked as well as whatever draft capital we can get from the Pels/BK KD trade).

Also, with the aggregated salary of Russ/THT/Nunn, we can bring back as much as 78.4m in salary. So for example Ky/Myles/Buddy combine fit an incoming salary of 76.1m. If you also wanted to bring in Seth Curry as well, we would have to add roughly 5m to Russ/THT/Nunn…so we would have to nearly fully guarantee Gabriel’s entire 1.9m deal and include MaxC & Stan’s deals in order to have enough salary to match for a hypothetical Ky/Myles/Buddy/Seth return (ie a 6 for 4 trade).

Lastly, if we do trade for any player right now, we gain their bird rights for next summer. So we could resign all of our potential FAs (ie Bron, Ky, Myles, Seth) next offseason without any regard to having cap space or not. The only thing stopping it though would be ownership’s willingness to spend and enter the repeater tax bracket.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject:

At the moment, New Orleans is not offering draft picks for Kevin Durant.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
So if was a group chat. One of them are snitches lol. How else would anyone know.


Ben Simmons doesn’t exactly inspire affection amongst his teammates. Whether this specific incident happened or not, we do know that the whole Brooklyn org was given the impression by him that he was going to play and then he didn’t.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:45 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
New Orleans not even offering draft picks.

    On Tuesday, the New York Daily News reported that the Pelicans remain interested in acquiring Durant, citing an unidentified source. The report listed Brandon Ingram, Herbert Jones, Devonte Graham and Jose Alvarado as potential candidates to be traded for Durant.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/article_dd0bb0e6-180a-11ed-b6a2-63e01fe9f4dc.html


Reported offer.
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levon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
So if was a group chat. One of them are snitches lol. How else would anyone know.

The group chat is Kyrie, KD, Ben, and Ric Bucher.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:47 am    Post subject:

Ben Simmons quit on his teammates at LSU.
Ben Simmons quit on his teammates in Philadelphia.
Ben Simmons quit on his teammates in Brooklyn.


Last edited by JUST-MING on Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:

I have wanted Turner, more than any other player in the league, to play next to AD.


Why?



One word......DEFENSE. The ability for these guys to protect the basket, switch, rebound . These 2 guys would shut the paint down. Guards would be frightened to venture down the lane, with them 2 guys back there. Remember 2020, this would be even better.

With Turners ability to step outside, that will create space for AD on offense.


Myles has never been selected to an all-defense team.


Ok......but, has lead the league in shot blocking 2 of the last 4 years.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:50 am    Post subject:

Read this https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/the-digest/indiana-pacers/3697933-why-does-nobody-want-myles-turner-analyzing-pacers-big-man-s-strengths-weaknesses-contract-and-value-on-trade-market

Last edited by JUST-MING on Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:50 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
New Orleans not even offering draft picks.

    On Tuesday, the New York Daily News reported that the Pelicans remain interested in acquiring Durant, citing an unidentified source. The report listed Brandon Ingram, Herbert Jones, Devonte Graham and Jose Alvarado as potential candidates to be traded for Durant.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/article_dd0bb0e6-180a-11ed-b6a2-63e01fe9f4dc.html


Reported offer.


That doesn't say picks are or are not included, just saying
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:54 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
defense wrote:
So if was a group chat. One of them are snitches lol. How else would anyone know.

The group chat is Kyrie, KD, Ben, and Ric Bucher.


then it's legit
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:56 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:

I have wanted Turner, more than any other player in the league, to play next to AD.


Why?



One word......DEFENSE. The ability for these guys to protect the basket, switch, rebound . These 2 guys would shut the paint down. Guards would be frightened to venture down the lane, with them 2 guys back there. Remember 2020, this would be even better.

With Turners ability to step outside, that will create space for AD on offense.


Myles has never been selected to an all-defense team.


Ok......but, has lead the league in shot blocking 2 of the last 4 years.


Read this https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/the-digest/indiana-pacers/3697933-why-does-nobody-want-myles-turner-analyzing-pacers-big-man-s-strengths-weaknesses-contract-and-value-on-trade-market



Don't need to read that. No need to make the next mans opinion my own. I study this game and analyze this game myself, and have been for the last 30+ years. There are a ton of different basketball philosophies, different styles of play. What one coach swears by, another coach frowns on. My opinion on Myles, is based on my analytical philosophy of how the game is played and how these 2 would fit together.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:05 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
governator wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:


Apologies for not getting to this earlier.

A few things to consider: Russ’s 47.1m deal can bring back as much as 59m in salary. So for example Russ’s deal alone can bring back Ky’s 36.9m + Myles 18m with roughly 4m to spare in bringing in additional salary. Or we can swap out Myles 18m for Buddy’s 21.2m instead. Imho sending out our ‘27 & ‘29 1sts would be well worth it in bringing in Ky/Myles. But that would be an absolute dream scenario since our assets are so limited.

If we had the draft capital, it probably coujd be possible. But unfortunately we are only allowed to trade our ‘27 & ‘29 1st rounders (Stepien rule prohibits trading any picks in consecutive years where the team is left without 1st round picks in both those years, hence picks traded every other year ie ‘27/‘29. Also picks cannot be traded outside the next 7 years, hence we’re only able to trade up till our ‘29 1st being that it’s 7 years away & we’re in the 2022/23 season. Our 2024 1st can be deferred to 2025, which means we can’t trade the 2026 1st in case NO deferred our pick to 2025 (Stepien consecutive year rule). So that only opens up the ‘27 & ‘29 picks for us to trade even though we our 2023 1st (after NO for the better one), one of either our 2024 or 2025 1st and our 2026 1st. So we have 3 1sts in the next 4 years, it’s just that we can’t trade any of them right now. But we can add an even lower swap to the 2023 pick and can offer swap rights to our 2026 & 2028 1sts. We can also include a condition where a team can either swap out for our 2024 or 2025 1st depending on which pick NO decides to keep between the two.

So as of right NOW, we can offer up to 2 unprotected FRPs and 4 swap rights till 2029.

Also, as of August 7th, MaxC’s 1m rookie min deal can now be a traded/aggregated within a package deal. That also applies to all the other rookie deals that were signed after the 2022 draft.

Also, let’s say Russ stays in BK if both KD and Ky are outbound, then they most likely keep our 2 FRPs (‘27/‘29). We can still possibly entice Indy in a 3 way for either Buddy or Myles by offering up THT and up to 4 swap rights. FYI Haliburton and THT ran together in college. Also in the case of THT for Buddy, Indy could look at it as trading a 2yr deal for a pseudo expiring if THT ejects to use his player option (PO) to opt out next summer. However if Indy is interested in keeping him, they may frown upon acquiring that PO as well.

One last thing to note, Pritchard and Rob have history…and it ain’t good. But Pritchard also traded Paul George for potential ballers in Dipo/Sabonis without demanding any FRPs from Okc. So there’s a man outside shot at getting something from Indy without giving up our current tradeable FRPs. Wound THT/MaxC + a few swap rights be enough?


If somehow KD goes to Pels, maybe we can have Pels change our AD deal a little bit aka pick the year they want the swap, maybe for a 2nd rounder from Nets or something which we would replenish back to Nets (is this allowed?) then we'd give '27&'29 FRPs for Kyrie and the newly available pick to Indy for Kyrie, Seth, Turner or if Rob is the redeemer, Kyrie, Seth, Buddy, Turner (THT/Nunn/whatever salary not named Reaves going out, but then can you have Buddy and Kyrie next yr? sounds like not enough $ to resign Kyrie), ok, nuff am rant


Good question Gov.

Yeah we can be looped into a BK-Pels trade where they get KD. We don’t even have to send salaried players in that potential 3team trade. All we have to do is send some incentive (2nd round picks and or other pick swaps) where NO relaxes their current deferment option on our 2024/25 1sts and just picks one right now to unlock the movement of our 2023 1st in a trade right now. So in effect they will then own 2 of our FRPs (2023 & 2025) instead of just 1 & a swap.

For example, we can throw both our and Chicago’s 2023 2nd rounders to the Pels for them to amend the deferment conditions where they pick our 2025 1st and can then package (1, 2) both their and our 2023 1sts along with (3, 4) both our and their 2025 1sts and still add even (5, 6) both their and Milwaukee’s 2027 1sts and (7) their 2029 1st. So the Pels can effectively trade up to 7 FRPs for KD right now by amending that deferment condition on our 2024 1st.

If they do that, maybe BK then throws us a bone and includes either a heavily protected FRP (they have Philly’s 2027) or includes the lesser in the pick swaps they currently have (2023 1st Htown or Philly).

It’s with whatever we get from that deal that we can include to our other trading partners in the Ky aspect of the trade (ie 2024 1st pick swap unlocked as well as whatever draft capital we can get from the Pels/BK KD trade).

Also, with the aggregated salary of Russ/THT/Nunn, we can bring back as much as 78.4m in salary. So for example Ky/Myles/Buddy combine fit an incoming salary of 76.1m. If you also wanted to bring in Seth Curry as well, we would have to add roughly 5m to Russ/THT/Nunn…so we would have to nearly fully guarantee Gabriel’s entire 1.9m deal and include MaxC & Stan’s deals in order to have enough salary to match for a hypothetical Ky/Myles/Buddy/Seth return (ie a 6 for 4 trade).

Lastly, if we do trade for any player right now, we gain their bird rights for next summer. So we could resign all of our potential FAs (ie Bron, Ky, Myles, Seth) next offseason without any regard to having cap space or not. The only thing stopping it though would be ownership’s willingness to spend and enter the repeater tax bracket.


I mean $ is $ and it's not my $ but look at this closing line up and how solid the back ups are on all positions

Kyrie-Buddy-Bron-AD-Myles

Schroeder-Seth-Reaves-JTA-T.Bryant

Scottie JR-Troy Brown-LW4-buyout wing-D.Jones/J.Huff
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:06 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:

I have wanted Turner, more than any other player in the league, to play next to AD.


Why?



One word......DEFENSE. The ability for these guys to protect the basket, switch, rebound . These 2 guys would shut the paint down. Guards would be frightened to venture down the lane, with them 2 guys back there. Remember 2020, this would be even better.

With Turners ability to step outside, that will create space for AD on offense.


Myles has never been selected to an all-defense team.


And everyone knows if you don’t make first or second all-defense, you’re not good at it.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:08 am    Post subject:

That's fair. I prefer Thomas Bryant.

01-03-2021


The box outs. The screens. The get open around the basket for a dump off a la Antawn Jamison. Most importantly, the defensive rebounds at the end of the video. We lost so many games last season because we were unable to do that.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:19 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
That's fair. I prefer Thomas Bryant.

01-03-2021


The box outs. The screens. The get open around the basket for a dump off a la Antawn Jamison. Most importantly, the defensive rebounds at the end of the video. We lost so many games last season because we were unable to do that.


Highlights are nice but his defensive impact and shooting is nowhere near Turner's level. And he's yet to regain his pre-injury movement/impact. There's a reason he was available for the minimum.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:23 am    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/adamorecchio/status/1557752506532433923?s=21&t=x3-zfwaKwiblN0PB5sPD_A
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:23 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
That's fair. I prefer Thomas Bryant.

01-03-2021


The box outs. The screens. The get open around the basket for a dump off a la Antawn Jamison. Most importantly, the defensive rebounds at the end of the video. We lost so many games last season because we were unable to do that.


Highlights are nice but his defensive impact and shooting is nowhere near Turner's level. And he's yet to regain his pre-injury movement/impact. There's a reason he was available for the minimum.


Absolutely...In fact, one can argue as a one on one defender Bryant is pretty weak...good help guy and box out guy....but individual defense... poor.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/richstapless/status/1557738627194466305?s=21&t=Hd_2LRSiX0B0gPiHk9iqBQ


So even Marc Stein can't come up with much to say.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:28 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
New Orleans not even offering draft picks.

    On Tuesday, the New York Daily News reported that the Pelicans remain interested in acquiring Durant, citing an unidentified source. The report listed Brandon Ingram, Herbert Jones, Devonte Graham and Jose Alvarado as potential candidates to be traded for Durant.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/article_dd0bb0e6-180a-11ed-b6a2-63e01fe9f4dc.html


Reported offer.


Your reading comprehension is off quite a bit here. "Potential candidates". NOT reported offer. Also, zero mention of picks being include or not.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it

Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts


Sheesh.
Can't believe some still want Kyrie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1557763597463425024
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:09 am    Post subject:

It’s generally a good rule of thumb to avoid reporters who have been consistently pantsed for being wrong time and again, especially when they emerge with scoops that nobody else is reporting on. It’s certainly possible that Ric Bucher is all of a sudden on fire with exclusives but it’s far more likely he’s just being Ric Bucher.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:13 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
Well, this ain't good, Ky needs to chill, still want him tho but that 4yr max gonna be like eating leather when we offers it

Quote:
Ric Bucher: Joe Tsai has already shown he’s willing to play hardball with Kyrie by taking a max extension off the table almost immediately. Now, part of that may be Kyrie’ doing. I’m told he wanted his new contract to guarantee he wouldn’t have to play more than 60 games in a season and would not have to play any back the backs which he apparently referred to as inhumane. – via Apple Podcasts


Sheesh.
Can't believe some still want Kyrie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1557763597463425024


*looks at avatar pic* 👀
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/adamorecchio/status/1557752506532433923?s=21&t=x3-zfwaKwiblN0PB5sPD_A


I actually view this as making it very low chance of Durant being traded because he has been paid half his salary already and the next part before the season starts. They might as well just keep him for the year
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