NEW GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Instead of wasting time there, I would hope they turn to legitimate options if they truly do not want to involve our draft capital. Although rumor has it, they also don’t want to take on longterm salary. So how exactly do they believe they can move off Russ’s deal if they don’t want to involve multiple picks while not taking on longterm money. Wtf?

They really believe they can swap out expirings for expirings attaching one pick huh? Not really an efficient way to use a draft pick (even one 5 years down the line). But then again, we already know what it is when it comes to what should be expected in them managing our assets.


I'm not sure that your assumption is correct. I expect that Pelinka has already figured out that we can't move Westbrook without giving up all of our draft capital and/or taking on long-term bad contracts. I think he's looking for situations that he can exploit (such as the Irving-Nets situation). In other words, he's hoping that something falls into our lap. It's pathetic that we've gotten to this point, but that's water under the bridge/spilled milk. I can't fault Pelinka for letting events unfold instead of trying to rush into a deal.

At some point, however, Jeanie and Pelinka may need to make the really hard call: Do we want to go to training camp with Westbrook on board? Buha called it a soft deadline. I don't think it's really that soft. If we go to training camp with Westbrook, we need to commit to it. We can't let the soap opera drag into the season. We can't have a new Westbrook trade rumor every other day. That would push us right to the worst-case scenario of shipping a lottery pick to the Pelicans.


Well let me clarify my assumption.

2023 cap plan aka ducking the repeater tax plan is a real thing, so having an expiring Russ on our books is exactly where we wanna be.

We just know it’s most likely another (bleep) show and yet another wasted year of Bron/AD. So we need another potential expiring(s) to have it all fit better next to that duo.

Here are the names we been linked to:
Ky (expiring), Seth Curry (expiring), O’Neale (expiring), JHarris, Myles (expiring), Gordon (nonguaranteed next year), Buddy (Rob’s infatuation doesn’t have an expiration, but dudes final year is deescalating from this season), PatBev (expiring), Bogs (expiring), JC (pseudo expiring via player option), Beas (pseudo expiring via team option), Mike Conley (partially guaranteed final year), DRose (pseudo expiring via team option), Reddish (expiring RFA), Jules (huh?), Coby White (expiring RFA)

I’m sure I might have missed a few, but of all the names we’ve been somewhat linked to, other than Jules (wtf, didn’t we renounce him when he was a RFA) and JHarris (rumor has it we prefer Curry or O’Neale instead), most of these players are either on short term deals, partially guaranteed deals and/or expiring deals.

Pair that with our refusal to part with both our available FRPs and/or our refusal to take in longterm money. We ease up on either/both of those demands and we might have already had a done deal.

I’m right there with most of you guys in that they shouldn’t do a deal just for the sake of ridding Russ, but especially if we empty our asset clip completely and the moves don’t really move the needle.

However, what’s wrong with my assumption? Lakers are trying to swap out Russ for better fitting expiring deals and are only willing to give up 1 FRP at the moment to do so. They wasting their time/energy in doing it with the likes of Ainge, Pritchard & Buford (via tagging in Spurs as a 3rd team) if they ain’t willing to either take a longterm deal and/or add that 2nd FRP. Those guys/teams in particular won’t really demand for anything less imho.
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
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Aeneas Hunter wrote:
At some point, however, Jeanie and Pelinka may need to make the really hard call: Do we want to go to training camp with Westbrook on board? Buha called it a soft deadline. I don't think it's really that soft. If we go to training camp with Westbrook, we need to commit to it. We can't let the soap opera drag into the season. We can't have a new Westbrook trade rumor every other day. That would push us right to the worst-case scenario of shipping a lottery pick to the Pelicans.


In my way of thinking, concerning themselves with the soap opera or worrying about the New Orleans pick are precisely what they should avoid.

Russ doesn’t have star capital anymore. If there was any doubt, the team just leaked the coach wasn’t required to start or close with him. He’s a role player clogging our cap. That’s causing a talent deficit. But once you get past the idea he has star input, things become clearer. The media will try to create drama, but if we’re winning LeBron and Ham will easily shut that down. If we’re not, trading Russ isn’t going to have fixed that.

Ultimately, Davis, LeBron and Ham have far more to do with how our season starts than Russ.


I'm not so sure about that. We have one of the worst rosters in the league from 4 to 15. Lebron and Davis are likely to miss games. If we don't get anything from Westbrook at 3, and if we don't make a positive trade, we're probably a lottery team.

For sure, there are some optimistic scenarios in which someone in the 4 to 15 range greatly exceeds expectations. But suppose that Lebron and Davis both play 60 games (which is more than either played last year or the prior year). If you're counting on Kendrick Nunn and Austin Reaves to carry the load, you're not being realistic. Barring a trade, we will need to find a way to get positive production from Westbrook. Otherwise, you're counting on Lebron and Davis to have surprisingly healthy seasons and multiple players in the 4 to 15 range to have surprising breakout seasons, especially when it comes to shooting.

If we have an ongoing soap opera about Westbrook, it just gets worse.


Fair enough. But if we really are among the worst in the league 4 through 15, and/or we anticipate Bron and Davis missing 25% of the season, what is the point of jettisoning everything of value to get a marginal upgrade over Westbrook? We aren’t getting multiple two-way players or a difference making wing at this point for that. If the existing roster doesn’t have the ability to play to the high end of their potential, then it’s just rearranging the deck chairs in the titanic.

In other words, better a lottery team with our future picks than a play-in team with no tools to improve anytime soon. If we catch some breaks and are performing better than that, you can always deal Russ later.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:26 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If Lakers want 2023 cap flexibility while being competitive now (assuming no Nets trade), you trade for Bev/Beasley/Bogs/Gay for Russ/THT/1sts. That way those players expire (Beasley is a team option and Gay can be stretched or traded if needed) and you have your 33m plus (and if LBJ takes a haircut) a max slot. Not that there are any great FAs in 2023 who are younger than 30.



So we’re trading our two firsts to convert expirings into different expirings?

What do you think our ceiling is with those guys?

I see first round exit at best and now we’re out our last good assets.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:19 am    Post subject:

I apologize in advance for sounding negative. All these trades aside of getting Kyrie suck. My intention is not to belittle anyones proposals or ideas. It is fun to talk about (and entertaining) but at the end of the day, these countless trade proposals are like deciding between Syphilis or Gonorrhea. Sure we all want to off Brick while having a chance to potentially be a little better/entertaining (and not flaming out LJ's limited duration of having impact), but at what price? Is this even possible aside of the addition of Kyrie? I just do not see how wasting our limited resources (1 or 2 FRP's) to get these crap deals done is a win for us. I would much rather swallow the horrible medicine this year and be over with it than take a half dose this year and another half next year. Why take someone else's headache for a longer period of time then getting rid of our bigger headache (one and done). Its Kyrie (which is most likely not going to happen) or bust for me. Off those 2 picks (and more) and let's get this done. If not, we need to punt for now and see how the season goes. We can always work something out at the deadline if it is beneficial.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:58 am    Post subject:

You guys can't expect players or fans to buy into Lakers exceptionalism if you aren't willing to make moves to try to compete. How do you expect to attract free agents after that? If your team missed the playoffs two years in a row, and Lebron is inching closer to 40?

Any idea that begins with Russell Westbrook playing in a Lakers uniform again is a bad idea. There is a reason no team wants to trade for him as a player at this point. He's a cancer, whose talent isn't high enough to justify dealing with it. The message it sends is that the Lakers are willing to waste years of their superstars. You have to make a move to try to give those guys a chance to compete or trade them and the Lakers are not willing to trade them. So the only option is to make a move.

I'm not a huge fan of the Utah deal as the parts you are getting back are too old. Maybe if they can get it at a discount but I don't view guys like Beverly or Bogs as long term solutions. Maybe if you could get a deal like that for only one first and then acquire Hield or Turner with another first round pick + THT and Nunn or something like that it becomes a decent move. But on its own it's my least favorite move other than keeping Westbrook.

I'd trade two picks for Kyrie and Harris or Curry in a heartbeat. That move gives you a legitimate chance to contend. If they can make that move they have to do it.

I'd also be fine with the Pacers deal, though they should do their best to retain one of the first round picks if possible. But that deal gets you two guys who are still in their primes and who together >> Westbrook. If all else fails you have to fight to get the best deal you can but you make the move.

A New York deal, I'm iffy on. I like Randle, but it's the riskiest move out there due to his contract and the mystery of whether you are getting All-Star Randle from two years ago, or regressed Randle from last season. It would depend on the other parts to me. Randle/Rose/Cam though I could talk myself into over the Utah move due to the age of the players involved. But it wouldn't be my first choice. For me its Nets, Pacers, Knicks/Jazz depending on pieces, in that order.

The bottom line though is that when the Lakers brought in Lebron you knew what to expect. A chance to win a title or two, and a meddling superstar who you have to cater to. He delivered a title, and now the onus is on the Lakers to put a team around him that at least gives him a chance to compete. As constructed right now, this team does not have a chance to compete. Sure you have the puncher's chance if you can get Lebron and AD into the playoffs healthy and everything clicking at the right time. But you don't have a realistic chance with the team as is. Not enough shooting, and a massive chemistry problem in Westbrook.

I could talk myself into another bad season if the Lakers were rebuilding. If they trade Lebron and AD and got some picks and young guys who you knew would take time to develop. But if your picks are going to be swapped with New Orleans, even in that scenario there is little incentive to tank. Jeanie plans on extending Lebron. That being the case you have no choice but to make some moves. And with all other teams knowing they are desperate to do so, the Lakers are going to lose those two picks. That's the cost of Lebron. So be it.

If the Lakers truly hadn't offered a second first rounder for Kyrie then they probably made a mistake. If they did and it still didn't get done, they can wait around a bit until its closer to camp and see if New Jersey folds or if they trade Durant and then get Kyrie. Obviously if you can limit it to one first there that is great because you can package the other with THT and acquire another piece. But I see it as a near 0% chance that the Lakers start the season with Westbrook in purple and gold. And if they do, I'm going to seriously question their decision making.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:34 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If Lakers want 2023 cap flexibility while being competitive now (assuming no Nets trade), you trade for Bev/Beasley/Bogs/Gay for Russ/THT/1sts. That way those players expire (Beasley is a team option and Gay can be stretched or traded if needed) and you have your 33m plus (and if LBJ takes a haircut) a max slot. Not that there are any great FAs in 2023 who are younger than 30.



So we’re trading our two firsts to convert expirings into different expirings?

What do you think our ceiling is with those guys?

I see first round exit at best and now we’re out our last good assets.


It’s noting how the Lakers are neither going all in or rebuilding. I hate that position but it seems they want to win now, and have 2023 cap space. Insane.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:45 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
However, what’s wrong with my assumption? Lakers are trying to swap out Russ for better fitting expiring deals and are only willing to give up 1 FRP at the moment to do so. They wasting their time/energy in doing it with the likes of Ainge, Pritchard & Buford (via tagging in Spurs as a 3rd team) if they ain’t willing to either take a longterm deal and/or add that 2nd FRP. Those guys/teams in particular won’t really demand for anything less imho.


The problem with your assumption is that the Lakers are doubtlessly aware of everything you're saying. I think that they are just hoping that something falls into their lap. That's not delusional on their part. The whole Durant-Kyrie soap opera could produce a windfall. The same is true for Indiana and Utah, assuming that they want to tank for Wembanyama (there are some other significant prospects, too, but we're all learning to spell this kid's name). Some of these guys that we're talking about, like Hield and Bogdanovic, would be inconvenient for a team that wants to lose games.

I'm not saying that this is going to work. I'm saying that I think our front office understands the situation better than you are assuming. If nothing falls into our lap, then we have the default scenario that I described in my last response to you. In other words, when and if we get to the not-so-soft deadline at training camp, Jeanie and Pelinka need to make the hard call. They can roll with Westbrook, which raises all sorts of potential issues, but also winds up solving the repeater tax issue that you discuss. Or they can suck it up, make the best available trade (which might be Turner and Hield if the Nets are still in limbo), kiss the draft picks goodbye, and worry with the repeater tax next summer.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:49 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If Lakers want 2023 cap flexibility while being competitive now (assuming no Nets trade), you trade for Bev/Beasley/Bogs/Gay for Russ/THT/1sts. That way those players expire (Beasley is a team option and Gay can be stretched or traded if needed) and you have your 33m plus (and if LBJ takes a haircut) a max slot. Not that there are any great FAs in 2023 who are younger than 30.


I just do not see the objective of trading 2 FRP's for a bunch of scrubs on an ending contract who MAY get us into the playoffs. The ending contracts really should not be an exclusive selling point because Brick is an ending contract. I am not a fan of solely looking to have cap space as we have had FAR MORE success with trades and maneuvering than free agency. Keep our picks unless it is for Kyrie.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:55 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Fair enough. But if we really are among the worst in the league 4 through 15, and/or we anticipate Bron and Davis missing 25% of the season, what is the point of jettisoning everything of value to get a marginal upgrade over Westbrook? We aren’t getting multiple two-way players or a difference making wing at this point for that. If the existing roster doesn’t have the ability to play to the high end of their potential, then it’s just rearranging the deck chairs in the titanic.

In other words, better a lottery team with our future picks than a play-in team with no tools to improve anytime soon. If we catch some breaks and are performing better than that, you can always deal Russ later.


Yes, that's the heart of the matter. Most of the other stuff is just distractions. Unless something falls into our lap, it comes down to a choice between (1) forcing a Westbrook trade even though it will not make us a serious contender and may hurt our ability to rebuild in the post-Lebron era, and (2) rolling with Westbrook and hoping that Ham can find a way to make it work, even though we don't expect that we will be a contender in any case. Those are lousy choices, but this is where we are.

One other thing: We shouldn't underestimate the commercial aspects. The NBA is an entertainment product, not scientific research. Jeanie is painfully aware that the Lakers need to put an attractive product on the court. Laker fans expect championships, of course. If the Lakers can't deliver a contender, they at least need to deliver a team that is fun to watch. Last year was a good illustration of what happens when the team isn't a contender AND is hard to watch.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:01 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
The whole Durant-Kyrie soap opera could produce a windfall.


That windfall was already created.

Cleveland benefited from that windfall by facilitating James Harden to Brooklyn.


Last edited by JUST-MING on Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:05 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:

So we’re trading our two firsts to convert expirings into different expirings?

What do you think our ceiling is with those guys?

I see first round exit at best and now we’re out our last good assets.


It would cut the luxury tax bill.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:05 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
If the Lakers truly hadn't offered a second first rounder for Kyrie then they probably made a mistake. If they did and it still didn't get done, they can wait around a bit until its closer to camp and see if New Jersey folds or if they trade Durant and then get Kyrie. Obviously if you can limit it to one first there that is great because you can package the other with THT and acquire another piece. But I see it as a near 0% chance that the Lakers start the season with Westbrook in purple and gold. And if they do, I'm going to seriously question their decision making.


I wouldn't put a specific percentage on it. We don't have enough information to do it. I think it's north of 50%, though. I've questioned the decision making for a long time (before it was trendy, in fact). I'm actually less critical right now because I don't know what is really possible. I'm not even 100% sure that the Turner/Hield deal was truly on the table. Also, I can see how all of this is complicated by the repeater tax issue. Does Jeanie really want to pay repeater tax so that we can put a Band-Aid on our gunshot wound?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:21 am    Post subject:

Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:28 am    Post subject:

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I'd trade two picks for Kyrie and Harris or Curry in a heartbeat. That move gives you a legitimate chance to contend. If they can make that move they have to do it.

I am leaning towards this. I wouldn't keep Harris. He is a non-defender. But this is the chance I take, and I WAIT on the Lebron extension. Protect the picks top 5, though. You can get franchise talent in the top 5.

What I would try to do is get the best deal possible from the Nets, and then move the non-Kyrie pieces for a 2 guard that can possibly give some minutes and defense. Around a big 3 like AD/Bron/Kyrie, you will need some defenders, cutters and shooters.

Because the FO won't ever move AD/Bron and do a re-build on the fly, they star chase, we have to try and get the best talent possible to give them a shot at winning a ring each year. This moment, it's Kyrie, and that's a big risk. Every situation where we give up 2 FRPs is a big risk. However the only one (of the rumored deals) so far that is worth comtemplating that level of the risk, is Kyrie. Sure it could fail. It is also the only one that I could see work out and end up with the Lakers competing in June. He is good enough to be the best player on the court when Lebron is injured/resting/not 100%. No other trade gives us this kind of needle moving player. All the others are just reverting back to 2019 and hoping Lebron/AD revert to their 2019-20 form (And the role players and team coaching is as good).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:38 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.


And people kept bashing me in this forum for the longest! Bring on the Reddish!! Been of fan of him since Duke. He needs the right team and he will explode!

I honestly could see either Nunn/2nd for Reddish or THT for Reddish straight up
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:55 am    Post subject:

logical24 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.


And people kept bashing me in this forum for the longest! Bring on the Reddish!! Been of fan of him since Duke. He needs the right team and he will explode!

I honestly could see either Nunn/2nd for Reddish or THT for Reddish straight up


I can’t wait to see his awesome 6 points and 2 rebounds a game, if that’s how he explodes.
With all seriousness, not sure he’s a game changer. Why was he sitting on the bench after he was traded to NY? Something not right.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
logical24 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.


And people kept bashing me in this forum for the longest! Bring on the Reddish!! Been of fan of him since Duke. He needs the right team and he will explode!

I honestly could see either Nunn/2nd for Reddish or THT for Reddish straight up


I can’t wait to see his awesome 6 points and 2 rebounds a game, if that’s how he explodes.
With all seriousness, not sure he’s a game changer. Why was he sitting on the bench after he was traded to NY? Something not right.


Because its NY with crap system over there and trash coach?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject:

logical24 wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
logical24 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.


And people kept bashing me in this forum for the longest! Bring on the Reddish!! Been of fan of him since Duke. He needs the right team and he will explode!

I honestly could see either Nunn/2nd for Reddish or THT for Reddish straight up


I can’t wait to see his awesome 6 points and 2 rebounds a game, if that’s how he explodes.
With all seriousness, not sure he’s a game changer. Why was he sitting on the bench after he was traded to NY? Something not right.


Because its NY with crap system over there and trash coach?


I guess Atlanta was also the problem? Amazing how all these teams employ a system that prevents Cam from defending or putting the ball in the basket.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
logical24 wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
logical24 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
According to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, the Lakers interest in trading for Cam Reddish remains and there is a possibility he could become part of a future deal:

The Lakers have had interest in trading for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, who could also become part of a trade. Last season, the Lakers nearly acquired Reddish as part of a blockbuster three-team trade talks between the Lakers, Knicks and Raptors at the time.


And people kept bashing me in this forum for the longest! Bring on the Reddish!! Been of fan of him since Duke. He needs the right team and he will explode!

I honestly could see either Nunn/2nd for Reddish or THT for Reddish straight up


I can’t wait to see his awesome 6 points and 2 rebounds a game, if that’s how he explodes.
With all seriousness, not sure he’s a game changer. Why was he sitting on the bench after he was traded to NY? Something not right.


Because its NY with crap system over there and trash coach?


I guess Atlanta was also the problem? Amazing how all these teams employ a system that prevents Cam from defending or putting the ball in the basket.


I’m with you bro….there’s more Knox in him than anything else….he’ll never be anything special…..I’ll be surprised if he’ll ever be better than Jason Kapono or Tracey Murray.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject:

The Utah deal would be legit if we could get:

Conley
Bogs
Clarkson
Reddish

We send out tht, wb, Gabriel and two picks to Utah.

NY gets Mitchell and trades five of their firsts to Utah along with one or two young guys.

Conley / Nunn
Lebron / Clarkson / Lonnie
Bogs / Reaves / Tb / reddish
Davis / Jta / Johnson
Bryant / Jones

We now have two of utahs starters last year. A team that was fourth in the Wc. Conley looked horrible in playoffs but did shoot 40% for season from 3 and was an all star. Bogs is a pure scorer/shooter. Clarkson gets laker love from fans on his return and gets back to sixth man of the year status.
We can develop reddish and take a gamble on him. This trade gives us depth and mixes playoff tested vets with our young hustle guys. Might be our third option trades wise but actually may be the best In disguise.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:45 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
@hydrohead: Yep we got dick to offer…but we may be getting a little too eager to get off of Russ. Hope we don't blow it when we do

https://twitter.com/casualtakeking/status/1555376829522841600

Btw fam, I was like, I gotta use that vid somehow and posting it when I get into an exchange with hydro-head 😏 would be so appropriate. Or not 😂


man, I had to look a couple tome to make sure what I was seeing was what I was seeing!

Btw, the hydro reference is professional, but I bet that doesn't help the explanation much. Prob worsens it.
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hydrohead
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
Seems to me the only other possible deal is with Miami if Riles really thinks Fat Kyle isn’t right and Fit Russ is.


Your optimism is admirable, but there is zero chance that Pat Riley wants Russell Westbrook on the team. If he wants to offload Lowry, it won't be for Westbrook. I understand the frustration, but come on.


Hey, like Ernie told Chuck during his infamous Suns rant..."Im trying here"
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:49 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:

I'd trade two picks for Kyrie and Harris or Curry in a heartbeat. That move gives you a legitimate chance to contend. If they can make that move they have to do it.

I am leaning towards this. I wouldn't keep Harris. He is a non-defender. But this is the chance I take, and I WAIT on the Lebron extension. Protect the picks top 5, though. You can get franchise talent in the top 5.

Harris is a non-defender? All three of those guys are non-defenders. That's what makes this a horrible deal for the Lakers. Kyrie, Harris and Curry are collectively too small and ineffective at stopping their opponents from scoring. Fans in Los Angeles need to get away from trying to stack the deck in a way that will allow us to win games by a score of 200 points to 190. It's a mirage!

Three seasons ago we won a championship in part because we had legit defenders of size and skill, grabbing boards and stopping the other teams from scoring (best defense in the league)... these proposed players don't help in any way re-achieving that effort.

Two seasons ago we were one of the best defensive teams in the league in part because we had legit defenders of size and skill, grabbing boards and stopping the other teams from scoring, but had a lot of injuries to hold us back. Remember: once we got healthy the Lakers were up 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs against the NBA Finalist Suns, looking really good to take the series when AD went down yet again.

Last season was the opposite as we depleted our roster of almost all supporting players of legit defensive size (over 6'6" in particular) and skill. It was the worst defensive squad in the Laker Lebron era, and any deals moving forward have to consider that DEFENSE IS 50% OF THE GAME if we want to make a serious run at a title.

You can't simply outscore (on paper) everyone in the universe with a proposed roster and call it a championship team.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:

I'd trade two picks for Kyrie and Harris or Curry in a heartbeat. That move gives you a legitimate chance to contend. If they can make that move they have to do it.

I am leaning towards this. I wouldn't keep Harris. He is a non-defender. But this is the chance I take, and I WAIT on the Lebron extension. Protect the picks top 5, though. You can get franchise talent in the top 5.

Harris is a non-defender? All three of those guys are non-defenders. That's what makes this a horrible deal for the Lakers. Kyrie, Harris and Curry are collectively too small and ineffective at stopping their opponents from scoring. Fans in Los Angeles need to get away from trying to stack the deck in a way that will allow us to win games by a score of 200 points to 190. It's a mirage!

Three seasons ago we won a championship in part because we had legit defenders of size and skill, grabbing boards and stopping the other teams from scoring (best defense in the league)... these proposed players don't help in any way re-achieving that effort.

Two seasons ago we were one of the best defensive teams in the league in part because we had legit defenders of size and skill, grabbing boards and stopping the other teams from scoring, but had a lot of injuries to hold us back. Remember: once we got healthy the Lakers were up 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs against the NBA Finalist Suns, looking really good to take the series when AD went down yet again.

Last season was the opposite as we depleted our roster of almost all supporting players of legit defensive size (over 6'6" in particular) and skill. It was the worst defensive squad in the Laker Lebron era, and any deals moving forward have to consider that DEFENSE IS 50% OF THE GAME if we want to make a serious run at a title.

You can't simply outscore (on paper) everyone in the universe with a proposed roster and call it a championship team.


Please stop this!

You are making far too much sense.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Yes, that's the heart of the matter. Most of the other stuff is just distractions. Unless something falls into our lap, it comes down to a choice between (1) forcing a Westbrook trade even though it will not make us a serious contender and may hurt our ability to rebuild in the post-Lebron era, and (2) rolling with Westbrook and hoping that Ham can find a way to make it work, even though we don't expect that we will be a contender in any case. Those are lousy choices, but this is where we are.

One other thing: We shouldn't underestimate the commercial aspects. The NBA is an entertainment product, not scientific research. Jeanie is painfully aware that the Lakers need to put an attractive product on the court. Laker fans expect championships, of course. If the Lakers can't deliver a contender, they at least need to deliver a team that is fun to watch. Last year was a good illustration of what happens when the team isn't a contender AND is hard to watch.


I wouldn’t even call it post LeBron era. Imagine if we would have dealt a 1st for Wall last year. We would be marginally better this year and have one less tool to improve. Same applies to making a trade now. These are our resources to improve now, deadline and next year. The Westbrook tax isn’t done being paid and turning a frog into a prince requires great care and patience.

I agree on the commercial aspect. But from what I can see Jeanie is managing the long game. In the nine years under her executive leadership, we have one title, one play-in/1st round exit, and seven trips to Cancun. That includes having LeBron for four seasons. She can ill afford another extended run of futility with another NBA franchise in her market ready to steal market share.
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