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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Too bad Tsai wanted to stick it to Kyrie. I have little doubt he could have gotten a much better package if he allowed a couple days for Rob to create the 3 team scenario. But alas, glad to know Rob tried his best and he knew when to stop.
Turn our attention to FVV/GTjr and try to flip Lonnie for Thybulle |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Quote: | Updating tonight's NBA blockbuster trade coverage: As the Nets pursue additional deals before Thursday's 3 PM ET trade buzzer, league sources say they have not ruled out potentially moving Spencer Dinwiddie elsewhere. |
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1622482129320812553
What the hell? Thought they traded for him because they needed a PG to win now. |
This sounds like a patented Stein "make a bold statement to try to get newsletter subscribers, but when you think about it the bold statement doesn't mean anything."
I mean, why would the Nets rule out anything at this point? If they can find a deal for Dinwiddie that improves their chances to win now, why would they not consider that?
It's not like Stein is saying the Nets are actively shopping Dinwiddie around and plan to trade him. |
I look at it like this. They are under the gun to keep Durant from asking out again, at least this summer. How they perform for the rest of this season and in the playoffs could go a long way towards how he feels. If you could flip, say, Dinwiddie and a 1st to Toronto for FVV, it would be like trading Kyrie for FVV and Finney-Smith, or pretty close to it. Wouldn't that be a pretty good outcome for the Nets? In any case, they still have tradeable contracts and more draft assets than they had before today. I'd absolutely expect them to try to find another deal. |
I don't think they're under the gun with Durant. He's under contract for a few more years so he can't pressure them. They've shrugged at his trade demands before and they could do it again.
However, I could see them making a trade to improve their team because they still want to compete and try to win. And, again, there's no reason for them not to explore all their options. But I don't think they are under any particular pressure because of Durant. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | Too bad Tsai wanted to stick it to Kyrie. I have little doubt he could have gotten a much better package if he allowed a couple days for Rob to create the 3 team scenario. |
For what it's worth, virtually every immediate "trade grade" story I am seeing is giving the Nets an A or B+ for the deal, while saying the Mavs are taking a huge risk. |
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Palin Star Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 1807
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like Russ and 2 picks doesnt draw much. Nets looked at what they can get with that from 3rd team but seems like it wasn't better than Mavs deal which looks bad for us. I really have no idea to do right now. If we can't get good return then what? Becoming undercap team will not work depth wise and FA market is not good at all. If we resign our own players then its status quo with Lebron and AD aging 1 more year. I really see no middle way, gotta go all in or blow it up next summer by trading LeBron and AD. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Quote: | Updating tonight's NBA blockbuster trade coverage: As the Nets pursue additional deals before Thursday's 3 PM ET trade buzzer, league sources say they have not ruled out potentially moving Spencer Dinwiddie elsewhere. |
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1622482129320812553
What the hell? Thought they traded for him because they needed a PG to win now. |
This sounds like a patented Stein "make a bold statement to try to get newsletter subscribers, but when you think about it the bold statement doesn't mean anything."
I mean, why would the Nets rule out anything at this point? If they can find a deal for Dinwiddie that improves their chances to win now, why would they not consider that?
It's not like Stein is saying the Nets are actively shopping Dinwiddie around and plan to trade him. |
I look at it like this. They are under the gun to keep Durant from asking out again, at least this summer. How they perform for the rest of this season and in the playoffs could go a long way towards how he feels. If you could flip, say, Dinwiddie and a 1st to Toronto for FVV, it would be like trading Kyrie for FVV and Finney-Smith, or pretty close to it. Wouldn't that be a pretty good outcome for the Nets? In any case, they still have tradeable contracts and more draft assets than they had before today. I'd absolutely expect them to try to find another deal. |
I don't think they're under the gun with Durant. He's under contract for a few more years so he can't pressure them. They've shrugged at his trade demands before and they could do it again.
However, I could see them making a trade to improve their team because they still want to compete and try to win. And, again, there's no reason for them not to explore all their options. But I don't think they are under any particular pressure because of Durant. |
We just don't know what went down when Durant rescinded his trade request. Did they come to some sort of understanding that he would show up this year and play ball and give it one more chance, and that if he still wanted out at the end of the season that they'd try to honor that? Who knows. Either way, this is hardly just idle speculation that Durant could want out again. You have the New York media seemingly coalescing around the idea that Tsai needs to just end this "failed era" of the Nets and trade Durant and move on with some recouped draft assets and/or younger players, since title contention seems unlikely. And while Durant is under contract for a while, yes, do they really want to go through all of this again if he asks out? It's one thing to stomach it if you think riding it out could result in a championship. But if they look like they are a treadmill team?
At some point, you can only take the drama for so long. Happens to even championship teams, just ask the Lakers. And these Nets haven't even won anything close to meaningful. So, we'll see. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:17 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Quote: | Updating tonight's NBA blockbuster trade coverage: As the Nets pursue additional deals before Thursday's 3 PM ET trade buzzer, league sources say they have not ruled out potentially moving Spencer Dinwiddie elsewhere. |
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1622482129320812553
What the hell? Thought they traded for him because they needed a PG to win now. |
This sounds like a patented Stein "make a bold statement to try to get newsletter subscribers, but when you think about it the bold statement doesn't mean anything."
I mean, why would the Nets rule out anything at this point? If they can find a deal for Dinwiddie that improves their chances to win now, why would they not consider that?
It's not like Stein is saying the Nets are actively shopping Dinwiddie around and plan to trade him. |
I look at it like this. They are under the gun to keep Durant from asking out again, at least this summer. How they perform for the rest of this season and in the playoffs could go a long way towards how he feels. If you could flip, say, Dinwiddie and a 1st to Toronto for FVV, it would be like trading Kyrie for FVV and Finney-Smith, or pretty close to it. Wouldn't that be a pretty good outcome for the Nets? In any case, they still have tradeable contracts and more draft assets than they had before today. I'd absolutely expect them to try to find another deal. |
I don't think they're under the gun with Durant. He's under contract for a few more years so he can't pressure them. They've shrugged at his trade demands before and they could do it again.
However, I could see them making a trade to improve their team because they still want to compete and try to win. And, again, there's no reason for them not to explore all their options. But I don't think they are under any particular pressure because of Durant. |
We just don't know what went down when Durant rescinded his trade request. Did they come to some sort of understanding that he would show up this year and play ball and give it one more chance, and that if he still wanted out at the end of the season that they'd try to honor that? Who knows. Either way, this is hardly just idle speculation that Durant could want out again. You have the New York media seemingly coalescing around the idea that Tsai needs to just end this "failed era" of the Nets and trade Durant and move on with some recouped draft assets and/or younger players, since title contention seems unlikely. And while Durant is under contract for a while, yes, do they really want to go through all of this again if he asks out? It's one thing to stomach it if you think riding it out could result in a championship. But if they look like they are a treadmill team?
At some point, you can only take the drama for so long. Happens to even championship teams, just ask the Lakers. And these Nets haven't even won anything close to meaningful. So, we'll see. |
To me, the simplest explanation makes the most sense: Durant withdrew his trade demand because was he was under contract for a long time and he saw the Nets weren't going to just give him what he wanted just because he demanded it. I think it highly unlikely that they made him any guarantees in order to get him to drop his trade demand.
I don't know what the nets will do from this point forward but I'm suspect that making Durant happy will not be an important factor in their decision. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:26 am Post subject: |
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^
Perhaps so. But if they are looking like a treadmill team and if it looks like they missed their window, you could and perhaps should argue that their best course of action is to deal him while they still can at an absolute premium. After the season, to be clear. They are obviously still trying to compete this season, or else they would have taken the Laker or even Clipper offer. |
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alleyoop Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018 Posts: 3858
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:38 am Post subject: |
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LAL: GTJ, Conley, Vanderbilt
TOR: LW4, Beasley, protected LAL 1st
UTA: Westbrook, Hernangomez, unprotected LAL 1st, LAL 2nd, TOR 2nd
Then trade Schroder for a 2nd to get some draft capital back
PG: Conley - Beverley
SG: GTJ - Reaves
SF: Bron - TBJ/Christie
PF: Rui - Vanderbilt
C: AD - Bryant _________________ #18 next... |
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lakersfan32 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 3601
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:41 am Post subject: |
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27 wrote: | LakerSD wrote: | Now that dust has settled it’s honestly as simple as Tsai not wanting to give Kyrie what he wants.
When you look at the Mavs deal vs. their request of the Lakers adding Christie , Reaves and pick swaps…it’s ludicrous and insanity. Not even close in packages. |
Im scratching my head at some people insisting the dallas deal still beats that. I think the clippers proposed package was also superior to the mavs package.
So weird to me |
I don't know what's so hard to understand. The Nets wanted players, not draft picks in four and six years. You have to really contort yourself to say that Reaves and Christie are at the same level as Dinwiddie and DFS. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:22 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Too bad Tsai wanted to stick it to Kyrie. I have little doubt he could have gotten a much better package if he allowed a couple days for Rob to create the 3 team scenario. |
For what it's worth, virtually every immediate "trade grade" story I am seeing is giving the Nets an A or B+ for the deal, while saying the Mavs are taking a huge risk. |
That's true. I saw one that gave the Mavs an F. I wouldn't give them an F without adding the W and the T. Apparently, they got Doncic to sign off on the trade in advance, which is good from their perspective. However, as we have learned all too well in Laker Nation, players are often terrible judges of trades in general and other players in particular. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Polarbear Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 6129
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:24 am Post subject: |
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This is going to end up being the best trade that didn’t happen for the Lakers
I don’t trust Kyrie |
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Polarbear Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 6129
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | 27 wrote: | LakerSD wrote: | Now that dust has settled it’s honestly as simple as Tsai not wanting to give Kyrie what he wants.
When you look at the Mavs deal vs. their request of the Lakers adding Christie , Reaves and pick swaps…it’s ludicrous and insanity. Not even close in packages. |
Im scratching my head at some people insisting the dallas deal still beats that. I think the clippers proposed package was also superior to the mavs package.
So weird to me |
I don't know what's so hard to understand. The Nets wanted players, not draft picks in four and six years. You have to really contort yourself to say that Reaves and Christie are at the same level as Dinwiddie and DFS. |
I think that’s fair. Christy and Reeves are not yet on their level. You’re projecting the players that they will become not what they are now even though I very much like their games right now the two FRP’s are down the line, but could be worth a lot to me it’s all about the risk of Kyrie. He has not been happy anywhere he has been. I still think there are better trades out there for us that make more sense. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:27 am Post subject: |
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It sounds like Ja needs to review his choice of friends. If there was really a gun, and some idiot pulled the trigger, Ja's whole life and career would have been in wreckage. Arenas and Critt jump to mind. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Kobe_Is_King13 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2018 Posts: 554
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Simply put........We cashed our chips in for Russ.
Thats the reality of our situation. Had we had Kuz and KCP...even performing at their previous levels prior to their trades, we would have had the required ammunition to compete for Kyrie in this race.
Without them and given Brooklyn's circumstances.....our package was a non-starter unless obsurd amounts of draft capital was leveraged. Could they have waited and maybe gotten a better deal?
Perhaps. But that would mean putting all your eggs in a basket you honestly didnt want to use anyway. The Dinwiddie and DFS deal wasnt great, but it was better than what we were offering for the Nets immediate playoffs prospects |
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av3773 Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3750
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Can still be salvaged so hopefully Rob can get something done....some of the proposed Toronto and Utah deals might actually be better for the lakers short and long term vs Kyrie...obviously short term Kyrie is hard to replace, but we know if AD and LBJ are healthy and you give them good complimentary pieces they can roll. I'm partial to FVF and GT Jr. if it's at all possible, but some of the combos for Utah also help balance the roster as well if that's still out there, but dealing with Ainge is always a bit sketchy imo.
Main thing for me, Rob really should try to move players we don't think we want or can re-sign so WB, Bev and Lonnie for contracts of players who can help with longer term deals so we can build up our useable contracts and/or bird rights.....we can't keep building up a players value to lose them in FA |
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Darkndeep Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2070
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | Simply put........We cashed our chips in for Russ.
Thats the reality of our situation. Had we had Kuz and KCP...even performing at their previous levels prior to their trades, we would have had the required ammunition to compete for Kyrie in this race.
Without them and given Brooklyn's circumstances.....our package was a non-starter unless obsurd amounts of draft capital was leveraged. Could they have waited and maybe gotten a better deal?
Perhaps. But that would mean putting all your eggs in a basket you honestly didnt want to use anyway. The Dinwiddie and DFS deal wasnt great, but it was better than what we were offering for the Nets immediate playoffs prospects |
Yes, the Nets could have waited a bit for a better deal, but they were clearly not inclined to trade him to the Lakers under any circumstance short of a complete overpay and emptying of evvvvvvveeeeertything we have in the cupboards, including picks swaps on top of two FRPs. We were not going to get him and I am happy that we did not get him at the price we would have had to pay (a 4-year Kyrie contract on top of the assets). I am happy that these tires were all kicked-out with still time to look at something else. |
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Polarbear Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 6129
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | Simply put........We cashed our chips in for Russ.
Thats the reality of our situation. Had we had Kuz and KCP...even performing at their previous levels prior to their trades, we would have had the required ammunition to compete for Kyrie in this race.
Without them and given Brooklyn's circumstances.....our package was a non-starter unless obsurd amounts of draft capital was leveraged. Could they have waited and maybe gotten a better deal?
Perhaps. But that would mean putting all your eggs in a basket you honestly didnt want to use anyway. The Dinwiddie and DFS deal wasnt great, but it was better than what we were offering for the Nets immediate playoffs prospects |
So a couple of things
It sounds like they didn’t want to trade Kyrie two is preferred destination which was the Lakers, so this kills the deal no matter what, and less we give up everything we have, which would’ve been a bad idea
Second
If we still had Cuz NKCP I don’t know that I would’ve wanted to trade them for Kyrie Irving because the team would be better right now. Let’s be honest if the team wasn’t below 500 and we were in the thick of the playoffs would be really feel so desperate for a Kyrie Irving type of player that is a ticking time bomb wherever he goes, great player awful off the court. This usually doesn’t end well and it hasn’t ended well with every place that Kyrie has been. I think that the Mavs actually over paid. . |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | Second
If we still had Cuz NKCP I don’t know that I would’ve wanted to trade them for Kyrie Irving because the team would be better right now. Let’s be honest if the team wasn’t below 500 and we were in the thick of the playoffs would be really feel so desperate for a Kyrie Irving type of player that is a ticking time bomb wherever he goes, great player awful off the court. This usually doesn’t end well and it hasn’t ended well with every place that Kyrie has been. I think that the Mavs actually over paid. . |
The core principle of the Buss family has always been that stars are what it's all about. Ultimately, that's why we made the Westbrook trade. There were other factors, for sure. But in the end, Jeanie couldn't say no to another star. Likewise, Jeanie would always have been interested in Irving, no matter how many warts he has. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Hollinger:
Quote: | Here’s the biggest aftershock from the Kyrie Irving trade that nobody is quite thinking about just yet: I expect teams to be very guarded with their future first-round picks this week, much more so than they would have been oh, say, Sunday morning. (Exception: The Lakers. But you probably already knew that.)
The reason is that the Irving trade opens up two different potential whale-hunting stories for savvy traders. Sharp NBA front offices will not want to foreclose upon these possibilities, for any reason, until there is more clarity after the season on where each of those situations might be headed.
The first, obvious one is what it means for Kevin Durant. Given the fact that Durant already demanded a trade once, and that he’s for the moment marooned as the only All-Star (not even the most die-hard Nets fan can muster a hopeful “Ben Simmons?”) on an old team without much draft capital, his situation warrants monitoring. He still has three years left on his deal with no options, which means the Nets still have the upper hand in any kind of ultimatum situation (like if he were to demand the general manager be fired, for instance, but who does a crazy thing like that?). Nonetheless, the clock is ticking. |
Quote: | However, the second, deeper possibility every front office will be whiteboarding, is what happens with Luka Dončić. Even before this trade happened, execs I talked to on my road trip this past week, who were given anonymity so they could speak freely, were openly wondering if adding Irving could create a last-straw type situation that ends up pushing Dončić to seek the exits … much as happened with James Harden in Brooklyn.
We don’t have any information that Dončić is unhappy, but we know Dallas is desperate.
We know that because the Mavs just told us. Nothing says, “Everything is fine here,” like trading for the league’s most radioactive player, an accomplished amity arsonist now presented with fresh tinder. A logical follow-up question would be to wonder why the Mavs are so desperate right now. |
Quote: | And whither LeBron? Early smoke signals weren’t exactly encouraging, with James tweeting a cryptic “Maybe It’s Me” after news of the Irving deal broke. If Dallas feels the most pressure, the Lakers can’t be too far behind.
Welcome to our winter weekend of discontent. While Dallas, Brooklyn and the Lakers will likely continue to shop hard ahead of the deadline, smart teams will be hoarding first-round picks and quietly monitoring the mood of those clubs’ three megastars. |
https://theathletic.com/4158681/2023/02/06/kyrie-irving-trade-fallout-nets-mavericks/ _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:45 am Post subject: |
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The Jazz writer for The Athletic:
Quote: | With the trade deadline looming on Thursday, the Jazz feel freedom. They traded Mitchell and Gobert this past offseason and brought back practically a new team. They have a much cleaner cap sheet coming up this summer. They have so many assets to play with that teams are calling them. Last year, they had to make the calls.
Multiple league sources who were granted anonymity so they could speak freely tell The Athletic that the Jazz have had at least one trade call with every team in the league. And with many of those teams, there have been multiple trade calls. According to these sources, the Jazz have multiple offers on the table for more than one of their veterans, with a robust market for forward Jarred Vanderbilt, shooting guard Malik Beasley and point guard Mike Conley. There has been general interest in shooting guard Jordan Clarkson, although teams are wary of his impending unrestricted free agency. Kelly Olynyk has garnered interest on the market as well. |
Quote: | League sources with knowledge of the situation say the Jazz are approaching the next few days with an open mind. They have offers, which they started sifting through during the weekend. They can pretty clearly do a deal if they want. For example, sources say, the Jazz have an offer for Vanderbilt from a Western Conference team that would net them multiple second round picks. Would the Jazz want to take that offer? Or see if they can find a first for the forward who has spent much of his time with the Jazz in head coach Will Hardy’s starting lineup? |
Quote: | Of the players currently on the Jazz, Vanderbilt seems the most likely to be moved between now and Thursday, sources say. The Jazz value him. But, in Utah’s system, Vanderbilt is a center, and rookie Walker Kessler has emerged and made it impossible for the franchise to keep the rookie off the floor. That means Vanderbilt becomes a bit redundant for Utah. And his talent, his age, and his team friendly contract have made him popular on the trade market. The Jazz have multiple offers for him. The only question at this point is whether they feel comfortable or not with accepting one of them. |
https://theathletic.com/4159405/2023/02/06/jazz-trade-deadline-intel/ _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I think we are gonna get a Woj bomb soon that KD requested a trade |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Brick+2 first + Christie for Lillard
PG.Lillard
SG.Reaves
SF.Rui
PF.LeBron
C.Davis
Much better fit than kyrie |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2563
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: |
<snip>
Quote: | But West did not deny reports that he offered Jones, Elden Campbell and a No. 1 pick to the Timberwolves for Gugliotta and former Laker guard Anthony Peeler.
Because the Lakers are over the salary cap, they could only have acquired Gugliotta, a 6-foot-10, all-purpose player who would have filled the Lakers’ void at power forward, in a sign-and-trade transaction with the Timberwolves.
“We made them an offer,” West said Saturday night. “We felt it was a very fair offer; we felt it was attractive. [But] I don’t think it appealed to them. . . .
“We were interested in making a change that would’ve been relatively major on our part. But obviously they didn’t want any part of the deal that we offered.”
When asked why Minnesota would allow Gugliotta to go to Phoenix with no compensation instead of taking a low-post center and an all-star guard, West shrugged.
“You need two to go dance, and we weren’t able to get another team to do something that might’ve been in both teams’ interests,” West said. “We did the best we could, and I can tell you it wasn’t from lack of trying.” |
When Don Nelson was in the league, he was famous for blocking potential Lakers trades. In the Gugliotta situation linked above, Nelson reportedly contacted several GMs and had them call Minny and promise to "help them out" if they passed on the Lakers deal. |
Agreed but it's not league-wide, it's certain teams (e.g. Indiana) and certain "camps" e.g. the Celtics descendants (Nelson, McHale, Ainge) who range from refusing sane deals to looking to fleece the Lakers. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | I think we are gonna get a Woj bomb soon that KD requested a trade |
I think he’s out too. Just not sure if it’s now or in the offseason. |
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