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LakerSD
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 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | It'll be such a Rob/Jeanie move to trade Russ/27/29 for DROZ/Vuc. We get another aging name back when we could have gotten him for far cheaper a few seasons ago. |
That would be a horrible trade.
One FRP even has a chance to blow up in our face, but it will take 1 most likely.
Vuc, I believe, has been horrible for Da Bulls. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “Phoenix has been asking for a PF in return for Jae Crowder”
- Brian Windhorst
Mentions Rui as a potential trade candidate for the Suns |
This would be a stupid trade for the wizards.
On the level of THT for Bev  |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | PenG_ wrote: | | Quote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Sources: Two notable injury updates:
- Bucks star Khris Middleton is nearing his season debut, potentially as soon as Friday vs. Lakers. |
That's some funny sh** |
why left out the other part of the tweet?
James harden returns next Monday and they play the Lakers next Friday at home, obviously they probably beat us anyway without Harden. |
Ah, didn't even read that part. I was too excited to share |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Russ to Charlotte makes too much sense. I think MJ would keep Russ and let him just be Russ. Put up numbers, and the team is still bad and would be effectively tanking regardless. But maybe Russ can keep some Hornets fans.
I think there are deals you can make where the Lakers only give up 2nd rounders and Russ, but have to eat substantial salaries (Hayward and Rozier).
There are a few possibilities:
1. Russ/2nds for Hayward/Rozier. Not preferable but I think it could be done.
2. Russ/1 FRP for Rozier/PJ/Oubre. This I would be interested in. But that would require the Lakers to be ok with punting their cap space. This would add a ton of wing depth to the team.
3. Russ/1 FRP for Hayward/PJ/Oubre. This would minimize the long-term pain by taking on a shorter term Hayward deal. When Hayward plays, he's actually an ideal fit with LBJ/AD. But of course, he's an injury prone player.
Under no circumstances would I give up 2 FRPs. Not sure the Hornets really get more than a Lakers FRP if they are trying to unload Rozier/Hayward's deals. I remember the report that Charlotte was offering a 1st rounder for a team to take Hayward this summer. |
Hayward is out indefinitely and Rozier has been about as bad as Russ. |
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zambia
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Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1175
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | Foston is killing it with their young superstar Tatum. Almost winning it last year and looking like well on their way to the finals again. We need to rebuild and draft our own young superstars.
Nightmare scenario would be a Clippers/Celts finals. Thank goodness Clippers most likely won't make it out of the West because of injuries and the usual stacked conference. |
besides Milwaukee, i don't think any team can beat Boston in the east. they got even better with the Brogdon trade (robbery). |
It's why I've already assumed they would make the finals again. Between the aging Bucks and this young Foston team, I'd say Milwaukee has more chance of incurring an injury. At least I have a reason to watch the finals again. Rooting against Foston would just be as thrilling as rooting for the Lakers. Unless the Clippers also made the finals.  Buck Foston! |
Giannis is only 27 and by far the best player in the league now, they've been very impressive even without Middleton this year. |
Last year Giannis took AD’s heart. I expect a big game from AD tomorrow. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Russ to Charlotte makes too much sense. I think MJ would keep Russ and let him just be Russ. Put up numbers, and the team is still bad and would be effectively tanking regardless. But maybe Russ can keep some Hornets fans.
I think there are deals you can make where the Lakers only give up 2nd rounders and Russ, but have to eat substantial salaries (Hayward and Rozier).
There are a few possibilities:
1. Russ/2nds for Hayward/Rozier. Not preferable but I think it could be done.
2. Russ/1 FRP for Rozier/PJ/Oubre. This I would be interested in. But that would require the Lakers to be ok with punting their cap space. This would add a ton of wing depth to the team.
3. Russ/1 FRP for Hayward/PJ/Oubre. This would minimize the long-term pain by taking on a shorter term Hayward deal. When Hayward plays, he's actually an ideal fit with LBJ/AD. But of course, he's an injury prone player.
Under no circumstances would I give up 2 FRPs. Not sure the Hornets really get more than a Lakers FRP if they are trying to unload Rozier/Hayward's deals. I remember the report that Charlotte was offering a 1st rounder for a team to take Hayward this summer. |
Hayward is out indefinitely and Rozier has been about as bad as Russ. |
that is an understatement, Rozier has been worse than Russ this season. 30% from the 3, inefficient while turning the ball over at a high rate compare to his assist numbers. i wouldn't want him |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Russ to Charlotte makes too much sense. I think MJ would keep Russ and let him just be Russ. Put up numbers, and the team is still bad and would be effectively tanking regardless. But maybe Russ can keep some Hornets fans.
I think there are deals you can make where the Lakers only give up 2nd rounders and Russ, but have to eat substantial salaries (Hayward and Rozier).
There are a few possibilities:
1. Russ/2nds for Hayward/Rozier. Not preferable but I think it could be done.
2. Russ/1 FRP for Rozier/PJ/Oubre. This I would be interested in. But that would require the Lakers to be ok with punting their cap space. This would add a ton of wing depth to the team.
3. Russ/1 FRP for Hayward/PJ/Oubre. This would minimize the long-term pain by taking on a shorter term Hayward deal. When Hayward plays, he's actually an ideal fit with LBJ/AD. But of course, he's an injury prone player.
Under no circumstances would I give up 2 FRPs. Not sure the Hornets really get more than a Lakers FRP if they are trying to unload Rozier/Hayward's deals. I remember the report that Charlotte was offering a 1st rounder for a team to take Hayward this summer. |
Hayward is out indefinitely and Rozier has been about as bad as Russ. |
that is an understatement, Rozier has been worse than Russ this season. 30% from the 3, inefficient while turning the ball over at a high rate compare to his assist numbers. i wouldn't want him |
Ergo, why the Hornets would be trading out two young wings in Oubre/PJ. The Lakers would have to eat either a bad (2 years including this for Hayward, or 4 years for Rozier) to get Oubre/PJ, who would undoubtedly help our big wing-starved rotation.
I don't see the Lakers giving up 2 FRPs. I can see them being open to doing one, and the cost here would be to eat one of Rozier/Hayward.
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. He still has his warts but he’s been a positive since the move to the bench. It’s not just about getting rid of him anymore. He has legitimate value that would need to be replaced on top of improving in other areas in order for a trade to make sense. Charlotte’s scrubs do not qualify and coughing up any picks for them and their bad money is crazy talk. I do not want to be the 5th team in 7 years to talk themselves into Kelly Oubre.
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. |
Do you have statistical evidence to back this up? I've tended to agree but for the life of me can't find anything in the numbers to reflect this. Most of them actually suggest he's worse than last year, in keeping with his pattern of decline since 2017. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Beyond that, future free agents will be attracted by what pieces we have at the time to put around them immediately. They aren't going to say, "I'm wary because 10 years ago the Lakers didn't trade two FRPs to help Lebron and AD." |
A related concept is the idea that giving dubious extensions to superstars (Kobe, Lebron) makes other free agents more likely to sign with us. It doesn't hurt, I suppose, but it's more of an apology than a rationale.
The much greater problem with future free agents will be that our ownership and front office do not appear to be competent and that we appear to be under the sway of one particular agent.
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. |
Do you have statistical evidence to back this up? I've tended to agree but for the life of me can't find anything in the numbers to reflect this. Most of them actually suggest he's worse than last year, in keeping with his pattern of decline since 2017. |
been a better player since coming off the bench and Ham can bench him at any time. the main issue is that the alternatives are even worse. Pat Bev and Nunn are doing horrible things while having no play making ability. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. He still has his warts but he’s been a positive since the move to the bench. It’s not just about getting rid of him anymore. He has legitimate value that would need to be replaced on top of improving in other areas in order for a trade to make sense. Charlotte’s scrubs do not qualify and coughing up any picks for them and their bad money is crazy talk. I do not want to be the 5th team in 7 years to talk themselves into Kelly Oubre. |
I mean, that means the team will do nothing then. That's one line of thinking.
The other is that remember when Troy Brown once in a while has a good game? And by good game, like scores 10-12 points? Imagine getting two of those guys plus Rozier, who is inferior to Russ, but could approximate most of what he does at a fraction of the cost? That's the other line of thinking.
We have imperfect solutions b/c Rob really F'd up this roster. I can respect the argument of not making it worse, but not sure this front office can stomach that to be honest. I think they are looking to do a trade that takes one FRP, not two.
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. |
Do you have statistical evidence to back this up? I've tended to agree but for the life of me can't find anything in the numbers to reflect this. Most of them actually suggest he's worse than last year, in keeping with his pattern of decline since 2017. |
He was so bad before the benching it probably drags down his overall data and I haven’t done any kind of deep dive but it feels fairly obvious he’s been much better with the reserves. Ham still plays him too much and he’s a bad guy to have out there in the clutch but I think he’s been a positive as a 6th man.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. |
Do you have statistical evidence to back this up? I've tended to agree but for the life of me can't find anything in the numbers to reflect this. Most of them actually suggest he's worse than last year, in keeping with his pattern of decline since 2017. |
been a better player since coming off the bench and Ham can bench him at any time. the main issue is that the alternatives are even worse. Pat Bev and Nunn are doing horrible things while having no play making ability. |
I think Russ is great in the mid-1st quarter up to the mid point of the 2nd quarter, then mid-3rd up to the 8 minute mark or so of the 4th.
I just do not trust closing games with him b/c hero mode comes back to him for better or worse in high leverage situations. I'm more than happy to have him eat the middle innings as I do think he's been a tremendous boost in that respect.
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. He still has his warts but he’s been a positive since the move to the bench. It’s not just about getting rid of him anymore. He has legitimate value that would need to be replaced on top of improving in other areas in order for a trade to make sense. Charlotte’s scrubs do not qualify and coughing up any picks for them and their bad money is crazy talk. I do not want to be the 5th team in 7 years to talk themselves into Kelly Oubre. |
I mean, that means the team will do nothing then. That's one line of thinking.
The other is that remember when Troy Brown once in a while has a good game? And by good game, like scores 10-12 points? Imagine getting two of those guys plus Rozier, who is inferior to Russ, but could approximate most of what he does at a fraction of the cost? That's the other line of thinking.
We have imperfect solutions b/c Rob really F'd up this roster. I can respect the argument of not making it worse, but not sure this front office can stomach that to be honest. I think they are looking to do a trade that takes one FRP, not two. |
Two guys who are slightly more consistent than Troy Brown isn’t very enticing to me, doesn’t change our fortunes in any meaningful way, and definitely is not worth even a single 1st round draft pick. If they want to throw picks at a star, even an imperfect one, I can live with it. But this idea of trading unprotected future picks for bad teams’ scraps? What’s the point? Kelly Oubre and Terry Rozier barely make us better if they make us better at all.
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logical24
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Man i would so give up the 2 first round picks with Russ if there was a way we can get Lauri/Beasley/Conley |
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logical24
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by logical24 on Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | defense wrote: | I understand that there will be times where we are under 500 as a team. I have no issues with that. What really bugs me is having 3 guys on the team making over 45 million and still being under 500. Makes me hate all three of them.
I thought the extension to Kobe was dumb, but this extension to Legramps has got to be up there with the Westbrook trade as being one of the stupidest moves in Laker history. I really have no interest in watching Legramps or Westbrook this season. The other guys I don't mind. |
First and foremost the Lakers are a business. The goal is to make money and Lebron sells tickets and air time. The national media embraces the Lakers because of Lebron. He will be a Laker until he decides he will no longer be here. |
I understand this. Obviously, I'm speaking from a fan perspective. That's why I keep repeating that we will have to suffer for at least 2 more seasons enduring the Legramps farewell tour.
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I hope that we only suffer for 2 more seasons
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Beyond that, future free agents will be attracted by what pieces we have at the time to put around them immediately. They aren't going to say, "I'm wary because 10 years ago the Lakers didn't trade two FRPs to help Lebron and AD." |
A related concept is the idea that giving dubious extensions to superstars (Kobe, Lebron) makes other free agents more likely to sign with us. It doesn't hurt, I suppose, but it's more of an apology than a rationale.
The much greater problem with future free agents will be that our ownership and front office do not appear to be competent and that we appear to be under the sway of one particular agent. |
It might just be me, but I look at the max extensions of Kobe and James as different issues. Kobe spent 20 yrs being the face of the Laker franchise and earning the respect for doing so.
James is the career mercenary that changes teams to fit his whims and has questionable loyalty to teammates or organizations. Not arguing he is in the argument for GOAT. Just that giving him a max extension for his Retirement Tour is not the same.
As for the other free agents looking at the “ loyalty” of giving max contracts as a positive or negative. Guessing it means little to them. Looking at the line of free agents that have unceremoniously shuffled through the Laker rosters over the past four years, I’m guessing not many feel overly respected as the FO cater to helping James with every decision.
About now, I’m guessing even Davis is wondering about his future and any respect from the organization. |
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logical24
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i would do:
Utah Russ/Christie/2 1st
Lakers Lauri/Conley/Beasley
Lakers Bogdan
Piston Nunn/Pat/2nd
Conley/Dennis/Reaves
Beasley/Lonnie/TBJ
LeBron/Bogdan/JTA
Lauri/Weyen/Ryan
AD/TB/DJ |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, we are still doing trades that will never happen. Let me give it a go.
2 firsts
Westbrook
for
Trey Young
Jalen Johnson |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Beyond that, future free agents will be attracted by what pieces we have at the time to put around them immediately. They aren't going to say, "I'm wary because 10 years ago the Lakers didn't trade two FRPs to help Lebron and AD." |
A related concept is the idea that giving dubious extensions to superstars (Kobe, Lebron) makes other free agents more likely to sign with us. It doesn't hurt, I suppose, but it's more of an apology than a rationale.
The much greater problem with future free agents will be that our ownership and front office do not appear to be competent and that we appear to be under the sway of one particular agent. |
It might just be me, but I look at the max extensions of Kobe and James as different issues. Kobe spent 20 yrs being the face of the Laker franchise and earning the respect for doing so.
James is the career mercenary that changes teams to fit his whims and has questionable loyalty to teammates or organizations. Not arguing he is in the argument for GOAT. Just that giving him a max extension for his Retirement Tour is not the same.
As for the other free agents looking at the “ loyalty” of giving max contracts as a positive or negative. Guessing it means little to them. Looking at the line of free agents that have unceremoniously shuffled through the Laker rosters over the past four years, I’m guessing not many feel overly respected as the FO cater to helping James with every decision.
About now, I’m guessing even Davis is wondering about his future and any respect from the organization. |
I think fans and players think about this stuff much differently.
By the time a superstar free agent signs here, he’s likely already made $100 million or more, and he’s signing a contract that pays him $30-50 million or more for many years. I doubt he’s thinking, “Hmm, many years from now, when I am at the of career and no longer that good, will this team give me a big contract.”
In any case, I don’t think the Lakers gave Lebron the extension as a reward. At the time, the Lakers thought it was in their best interest to lock him down for a couple more years. |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Beyond that, future free agents will be attracted by what pieces we have at the time to put around them immediately. They aren't going to say, "I'm wary because 10 years ago the Lakers didn't trade two FRPs to help Lebron and AD." |
A related concept is the idea that giving dubious extensions to superstars (Kobe, Lebron) makes other free agents more likely to sign with us. It doesn't hurt, I suppose, but it's more of an apology than a rationale.
The much greater problem with future free agents will be that our ownership and front office do not appear to be competent and that we appear to be under the sway of one particular agent. |
It might just be me, but I look at the max extensions of Kobe and James as different issues. Kobe spent 20 yrs being the face of the Laker franchise and earning the respect for doing so.
James is the career mercenary that changes teams to fit his whims and has questionable loyalty to teammates or organizations. Not arguing he is in the argument for GOAT. Just that giving him a max extension for his Retirement Tour is not the same.
As for the other free agents looking at the “ loyalty” of giving max contracts as a positive or negative. Guessing it means little to them. Looking at the line of free agents that have unceremoniously shuffled through the Laker rosters over the past four years, I’m guessing not many feel overly respected as the FO cater to helping James with every decision.
About now, I’m guessing even Davis is wondering about his future and any respect from the organization. |
I think fans and players think about this stuff much differently.
By the time a superstar free agent signs here, he’s likely already made $100 million or more, and he’s signing a contract that pays him $30-50 million or more for many years. I doubt he’s thinking, “Hmm, many years from now, when I am at the of career and no longer that good, will this team give me a big contract.”
In any case, I don’t think the Lakers gave Lebron the extension as a reward. At the time, the Lakers thought it was in their best interest to lock him down for a couple more years. |
So, you are saying our GM is stupid? |
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Westbrook has become a useful, contributing player for us. |
Do you have statistical evidence to back this up? I've tended to agree but for the life of me can't find anything in the numbers to reflect this. Most of them actually suggest he's worse than last year, in keeping with his pattern of decline since 2017. |
He was so bad before the benching it probably drags down his overall data and I haven’t done any kind of deep dive but it feels fairly obvious he’s been much better with the reserves. Ham still plays him too much and he’s a bad guy to have out there in the clutch but I think he’s been a positive as a 6th man. |
I just ran some numbers. Since coming off the bench (fifth game of the season, so at this point roughly 75% of games played has him off the bench), he's posting a 52 TS%. Last year, he was at 51%. Not exactly a huge difference. And if I include his stinkers to start the year, his TS% is sub 50. Abysmal.
His turnover rate is at a whopping 19%--last year it was 17%. And he's even higher usage than last year. His rebounding per 100 poss is lowest it's been since he was teammates with Durant.
The bright spot is his assists per 100 poss are up from 9.8 last year to 12.2 this year. To me, that's a product of having more lineups geared towards his strengths, such as having rim-running bigs and shooters in corners. But again, it comes at the cost of insanely high turnovers, and the overall aggregate impact numbers don't paint this as some kind of massive leap forward.
Any way I look at this, I think it's just the reality slow to catch up to perception right now. This bench thing is Darvin Ham slapping lipstick on a pig, especially if he's going to continue to play down the stretch of games. Any minute now we'll run into some stiff competition that will take away more of Russ' strengths, and the numbers will overwhelmingly tell the story that he's even worse than last year. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| logical24 wrote: | Personally i would do:
Utah Russ/Christie/2 1st
Lakers Lauri/Conley/Beasley
Lakers Bogdan
Piston Nunn/Pat/2nd
Conley/Dennis/Reaves
Beasley/Lonnie/TBJ
LeBron/Bogdan/JTA
Lauri/Weyen/Ryan
AD/TB/DJ |
That's the difference between you and me.
When I want to waste time thinking about wild fantasies that will never happen, I like to list all the hot actresses that would sleep with me if only we happened to meet. |
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