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activeverb
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 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: |
As incredulous as many may act about including the Jazz in trade scenarios, MANY reporters have discussed the possibility of a Jazz sell off coming if their hot start dissipates. There is TONS of reporting on this. It was considered an inevitability before their hot start. I acknowledge that it’s no longer inevitable. |
I am not familiar with the speculation you are referencing. If are you talking about stuff people were saying a couple of months ago before the season started, I wouldn't consider that relevant at this point.
The recent reports I've seen have said that if the Jazz pivot to a tank, they would be open to trading their older players, but they plan to keep Lauri, as well as Clarkson, and they have set a very high price on Vanderbilt. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | As incredulous as many may act about including the Jazz in trade scenarios, MANY reporters have discussed the possibility of a Jazz sell off coming if their hot start dissipates. There is TONS of reporting on this. It was considered an inevitability before their hot start. I acknowledge that it’s no longer inevitable. |
Actually, you should consider whether any of this was "reporting." Don't get drowned in IG's fishbowl. This was mostly bloggers and pundits speculating about what the Jazz might do. It was just spitballing. I do not remember any insider reporter ever saying that Ainge intended to tank. It was reasonable speculation at the time, but that's all it was.
Anyway, here's what Ainge is saying in the real world:
| Quote: | So what does Ainge think of the Jazz’s success?
“Pleasantly surprised,” Ainge said in a telephone interview. |
| Quote: | So is Ainge bothered by the fact they are suddenly winning?
“I mean, come on,” Ainge says. “Who would say that? And who would I ever have told that to? Just think about that for a second.”
Well, there’s some version of an angry Ainge meme on social media after every win, I say.
“I’m not commenting on other people’s comments,” says Ainge. “It’s assumed that’s how I feel? Give me a break. I’ve been accused of [building teams to lose] before. It’s never been true.”
Ainge says he’s happy with Utah’s winning ways. He praised the team's veteran leadership and the maturity of its young players. He acknowledged Will Hardy—his handpicked, first-year head coach—for having the team ready to play. He pointed to the team's assist numbers—the Jazz are averaging 27.7 assists per game, sixth in the NBA—as evidence of unselfishness. He is impressed with how this team has come together in such a short period of time. |
| Quote: | Ainge wouldn’t delve into any specific plans. “We're in the process of trying to build a team for the now and for the future,” Ainge says. “We're just going to be opportunistic.” He knows how to build a title winner. He assembled the Celtics’ roster that won a championship in 2008 and put together most of the pieces from Boston’s Finals team last season. But Ainge did volunteer that he has noticed the connection this team has forged with the fan base. He noted the energy in Vivint Arena every night. It’s likely Ainge, as dispassionate an executive as there is in the NBA, will move anyone on the roster. But he won’t do it unless other teams meet his exact price.
For now, Ainge says, he will enjoy the process. He says everyone in the Jazz’s front office—from Ainge to Zanik to owner Ryan Smith—remains on the same page. He doesn’t know if Utah’s early season success is sustainable. “We’ll see,” Ainge says. But he also wouldn’t rule out looking to bring in talent before the February trade deadline. “I wouldn’t discount anything,” he says. “We have a lot of opportunities to make deals with all the picks that we have.” |
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/11/utah-jazz-nba-hottest-team-danny-ainge
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ArminNBA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | All this talk about how Ainge will trade Lauri for no less than 2 FRPs and likely at least 3 FRPs reminds me of how LG insisted all summer that Ainge would only trade Bojan Bogdanović for 2 FRPs and he traded him straight up for Kelly Olynyk (Saben Lee was immediately waived). |
I don’t know that many people thought Bogan would bring two FRPs in a straight up deal.
There was speculation of a Lakers-Jazz deal where the Jazz would require two picks, but that included the cost of taking on Westbrook and adding another player to balance out salaries.
Reportedly, the Jazz were offered a FRP for him, but they didn’t like the salaries they would have needed to take on.
Even with all that, the Bogan deal was regarded as pretty bad one for the Jazz, so I wouldn’t use that as any kind of benchmark for anything they might due in the future. |
Well, this is an important point. As you said, many thought the Jazz got nowhere near the appropriate return for Bojan. But we could also say that the Jazz should be pleased with Olynyk’s contributions thus far?
Teams have their own calculations and motivations.
Nobody is saying, “let’s trade Westbrook and picks for Giannis!” We’re still talking Lauri Markannen, a long underwhelming player who I believe would be a nice fit behind LeBron and AD, and provide much needed size. Do I think he’s a #1 or even #2 for a contender? No way. I don’t know what Ainge believes, nor do you I presume. It’s not far out to think the reporting on his desired sell off is true and that he’d value a pick that is also reportedly coveted around the league. |
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ArminNBA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | As incredulous as many may act about including the Jazz in trade scenarios, MANY reporters have discussed the possibility of a Jazz sell off coming if their hot start dissipates. There is TONS of reporting on this. It was considered an inevitability before their hot start. I acknowledge that it’s no longer inevitable. |
Actually, you should consider whether any of this was "reporting." Don't get drowned in IG's fishbowl. This was mostly bloggers and pundits speculating about what the Jazz might do. It was just spitballing. I do not remember any insider reporter ever saying that Ainge intended to tank. It was reasonable speculation at the time, but that's all it was.
Anyway, here's what Ainge is saying in the real world:
| Quote: | So what does Ainge think of the Jazz’s success?
“Pleasantly surprised,” Ainge said in a telephone interview. |
| Quote: | So is Ainge bothered by the fact they are suddenly winning?
“I mean, come on,” Ainge says. “Who would say that? And who would I ever have told that to? Just think about that for a second.”
Well, there’s some version of an angry Ainge meme on social media after every win, I say.
“I’m not commenting on other people’s comments,” says Ainge. “It’s assumed that’s how I feel? Give me a break. I’ve been accused of [building teams to lose] before. It’s never been true.”
Ainge says he’s happy with Utah’s winning ways. He praised the team's veteran leadership and the maturity of its young players. He acknowledged Will Hardy—his handpicked, first-year head coach—for having the team ready to play. He pointed to the team's assist numbers—the Jazz are averaging 27.7 assists per game, sixth in the NBA—as evidence of unselfishness. He is impressed with how this team has come together in such a short period of time. |
| Quote: | Ainge wouldn’t delve into any specific plans. “We're in the process of trying to build a team for the now and for the future,” Ainge says. “We're just going to be opportunistic.” He knows how to build a title winner. He assembled the Celtics’ roster that won a championship in 2008 and put together most of the pieces from Boston’s Finals team last season. But Ainge did volunteer that he has noticed the connection this team has forged with the fan base. He noted the energy in Vivint Arena every night. It’s likely Ainge, as dispassionate an executive as there is in the NBA, will move anyone on the roster. But he won’t do it unless other teams meet his exact price.
For now, Ainge says, he will enjoy the process. He says everyone in the Jazz’s front office—from Ainge to Zanik to owner Ryan Smith—remains on the same page. He doesn’t know if Utah’s early season success is sustainable. “We’ll see,” Ainge says. But he also wouldn’t rule out looking to bring in talent before the February trade deadline. “I wouldn’t discount anything,” he says. “We have a lot of opportunities to make deals with all the picks that we have.” |
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/11/utah-jazz-nba-hottest-team-danny-ainge |
It was either Lowe or the Hoops Collective, but they openly joked about how Ainge’s word is meaningless. (As you know, his word has historically been meaningless. In fact, he usually deceives through the media.)
Edit: They were specifically mocking these quotes…. 😅 |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | Westbrook is an expiring deal. Except for a few teams who are able to absorb large amounts of salary (like the Spurs), the vast majority of teams will need to match or nearly match salaries.
Hield/Turner combined for $40 million and Hield’s contract has another year of $18.5 million in salary to go after this one. |
Yes, we understand the concept.
| ArminNBA wrote: | | I do not buy the idea that the Lakers are paying 2 FRPs solely to unload a contract. That’s historically been true for bad, multi-year contracts. Not only does Westbrook’s deal expire, but he would likely accept a buyout for slightly less than his contract so that he could sign with another team (SI reported that the Heat would be interested). |
It was going to cost at least one FRP to unload Westbrook and one FRP to get useful players back. This was not a mystery. No one was going to agree to pay Westbrook $47M for free. This is what the market was telling us.
| ArminNBA wrote: | | If the Pacers are to trade Hield/Turner, they’ll likely need to absorb around $40 million to make the deal work. The Lakers should not be paying such an exorbitant tax due to Westbrook’s contract. |
Actually, they could do it for $32M, but that's not the point. If the Pacers decide to trade those players, they are going to be focused on what they are getting in return. They don't want or need Westbrook's contract. They may be content to let Turner and Hield play out their respective contracts and get nothing at all in return for them. Or they might re-sign both of them.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | It was either Lowe or the Hoops Collective, but they openly joked about how Ainge’s word is meaningless. (As you know, his word has historically been meaningless. In fact, he usually deceives through the media.) |
So the pundits and bloggers don't want to believe that they might have been wrong all along. Okay. Anyway, I've said what I have to say. If you want to indulge yourself in rescue fantasies, knock yourself out.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | It’s not far out to think the reporting on his desired sell off is true and that he’d value a pick that is also reportedly coveted around the league. |
I am not aware of any recent reporting that would suggest Ainge is open to trading Lauri. In fact, all the recent reporting I've seen suggests the exact opposite, ie he intends to keep Lauri as a key building block.
Is there a link you can provide of the reporting of his "desired sell off" so I can understand what you are talking about? |
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ArminNBA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | It’s not far out to think the reporting on his desired sell off is true and that he’d value a pick that is also reportedly coveted around the league. |
I am not aware of any recent reporting that would suggest Ainge is open to trading Lauri. In fact, all the recent reporting I've seen suggests the exact opposite, ie he intends to keep Lauri as a key building block.
Is there a link you can provide of the reporting of his "desired sell off" so I can understand what you are talking about? |
MacMahon and Dameris were just talking about the possibility on Howdy Partners a few days ago. Dameris (former FO guy) seemed much more convinced it would happen than MacMahon. To your point, MacMahon said he expects that Lauri will only be moved for a haul. Dameris didn’t seem to value Conley, Clarkson, etc. much at all in terms of assets. He also didn’t seem to buy the Lauri renaissance, calling it “careering.”
In addition, Lowe, Hoops Collective, and even NBA Today have all consistently referenced the Jazz’s desire to sell off and their many trade talks around the league and how their hot start stifled that strategy. However, they’re now 12-9, falling in the standings, and 4-6 in their last 10. There’s no reason the Jazz can’t eventually enter the trade conversation. (FYI, the dealing of Gobert and Mitchell was the technical beginning of the sell off.) |
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| All those Utah role players value is at absolute peak |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | It’s not far out to think the reporting on his desired sell off is true and that he’d value a pick that is also reportedly coveted around the league. |
I am not aware of any recent reporting that would suggest Ainge is open to trading Lauri. In fact, all the recent reporting I've seen suggests the exact opposite, ie he intends to keep Lauri as a key building block.
Is there a link you can provide of the reporting of his "desired sell off" so I can understand what you are talking about? |
MacMahon and Dameris were just talking about the possibility on Howdy Partners a few days ago. Dameris (former FO guy) seemed much more convinced it would happen than MacMahon. To your point, MacMahon said he expects that Lauri will only be moved for a haul. Dameris didn’t seem to value Conley, Clarkson, etc. much at all in terms of assets. He also didn’t seem to buy the Lauri renaissance, calling it “careering.”
In addition, Lowe, Hoops Collective, and even NBA Today have all consistently referenced the Jazz’s desire to sell off and their many trade talks around the league and how their hot start stifled that strategy. However, they’re now 12-9, falling in the standings, and 4-6 in their last 10. There’s no reason the Jazz can’t eventually enter the trade conversation. (FYI, the dealing of Gobert and Mitchell was the technical beginning of the sell off.) |
Just so I am clear on your position, let me use my own words to summarize what I am taking away from your posts.
Before the season started, people expected the Jazz to move any player they could for a good value. That strategy has been put on hold given how well they have performed. It is possible if they stop winning games, they could become more aggressive in trying to trade players. If they do that, the likelihood of Lauri being traded is small, and if he is traded the Jazz would demand a very large return for him.
If that is what you are saying I have no reason to disagree.
If you meant something different, just let me know. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mavericks with Doncic can’t even beat the Raptors without Barnes and Siakam? |
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
That’s the plan according to McMenamin if there playing 500 ball in mid December the FO is gonna try boosting the team with a trade. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
That’s the plan according to McMenamin if there playing 500 ball in mid December the FO is gonna try boosting the team with a trade. |
To be .500 in mid-Dec., we'd have to go 7-3 in a very hard part of the schedule -- 6 away games, 9 of 10 teams currently in playoff spots.
But maybe that's the Lakers thinking. We just did well against the worse teams in the league, and they are only going to push for a trade if the team shows it can do well against the better teams. Honestly, that seems unlikely, but we can always hope. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | As incredulous as many may act about including the Jazz in trade scenarios, MANY reporters have discussed the possibility of a Jazz sell off coming if their hot start dissipates. There is TONS of reporting on this. It was considered an inevitability before their hot start. I acknowledge that it’s no longer inevitable. |
Actually, you should consider whether any of this was "reporting." Don't get drowned in IG's fishbowl. This was mostly bloggers and pundits speculating about what the Jazz might do. It was just spitballing. I do not remember any insider reporter ever saying that Ainge intended to tank. It was reasonable speculation at the time, but that's all it was.
Anyway, here's what Ainge is saying in the real world:
| Quote: | So what does Ainge think of the Jazz’s success?
“Pleasantly surprised,” Ainge said in a telephone interview. |
| Quote: | So is Ainge bothered by the fact they are suddenly winning?
“I mean, come on,” Ainge says. “Who would say that? And who would I ever have told that to? Just think about that for a second.”
Well, there’s some version of an angry Ainge meme on social media after every win, I say.
“I’m not commenting on other people’s comments,” says Ainge. “It’s assumed that’s how I feel? Give me a break. I’ve been accused of [building teams to lose] before. It’s never been true.”
Ainge says he’s happy with Utah’s winning ways. He praised the team's veteran leadership and the maturity of its young players. He acknowledged Will Hardy—his handpicked, first-year head coach—for having the team ready to play. He pointed to the team's assist numbers—the Jazz are averaging 27.7 assists per game, sixth in the NBA—as evidence of unselfishness. He is impressed with how this team has come together in such a short period of time. |
| Quote: | Ainge wouldn’t delve into any specific plans. “We're in the process of trying to build a team for the now and for the future,” Ainge says. “We're just going to be opportunistic.” He knows how to build a title winner. He assembled the Celtics’ roster that won a championship in 2008 and put together most of the pieces from Boston’s Finals team last season. But Ainge did volunteer that he has noticed the connection this team has forged with the fan base. He noted the energy in Vivint Arena every night. It’s likely Ainge, as dispassionate an executive as there is in the NBA, will move anyone on the roster. But he won’t do it unless other teams meet his exact price.
For now, Ainge says, he will enjoy the process. He says everyone in the Jazz’s front office—from Ainge to Zanik to owner Ryan Smith—remains on the same page. He doesn’t know if Utah’s early season success is sustainable. “We’ll see,” Ainge says. But he also wouldn’t rule out looking to bring in talent before the February trade deadline. “I wouldn’t discount anything,” he says. “We have a lot of opportunities to make deals with all the picks that we have.” |
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/11/11/utah-jazz-nba-hottest-team-danny-ainge |
It was either Lowe or the Hoops Collective, but they openly joked about how Ainge’s word is meaningless. (As you know, his word has historically been meaningless. In fact, he usually deceives through the media.)
Edit: They were specifically mocking these quotes…. 😅 |
Yet what Ainge and the Jazz are doing is openly mocking the media, who completely misread the situation and are trying to save ass.
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levon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
That’s the plan according to McMenamin if there playing 500 ball in mid December the FO is gonna try boosting the team with a trade. |
To be .500 in mid-Dec., we'd have to go 7-3 in a very hard part of the schedule -- 6 away games, 9 of 10 teams currently in playoff spots.
But maybe that's the Lakers thinking. We just did well against the worse teams in the league, and they are only going to push for a trade if the team shows it can do well against the better teams. Honestly, that seems unlikely, but we can always hope. |
I found the messaging on this really funny actually. Almost an Onion headline. "Lakers plan on going .500", as if they are the sole drivers of that outcome. |
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Rubin
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
That’s the plan according to McMenamin if there playing 500 ball in mid December the FO is gonna try boosting the team with a trade. |
To be .500 in mid-Dec., we'd have to go 7-3 in a very hard part of the schedule -- 6 away games, 9 of 10 teams currently in playoff spots.
But maybe that's the Lakers thinking. We just did well against the worse teams in the league, and they are only going to push for a trade if the team shows it can do well against the better teams. Honestly, that seems unlikely, but we can always hope. |
This would be the most asinine line of thinking possible. Rob did a horrible job building this team…but it’s the job of his horrible roster to prove to him they’re worth investing in?
This is the equivalent of a branch manager who hires awful staff, but won’t make necessary changes to the staff because they haven’t proven to be good enough  |
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levon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a realistic list of SF-PF players >6'6" that offer some semblance of shooting and/or defense, and that are in our salary filler range using Beverley and optionally Nunn. Note I'm not saying any of these players will be or are necessarily available, just that they work in the trade machine. I've also excluded guys like OG Anunoby, Mikal Bridges, anyone on the Clippers, etc.
Harrison Barnes
Bojan (ew)
McDermott (ew)
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Oubre
Olynyk
Dorian Finney-Smith
Joe Harris (ew)
Chris Boucher
Will Barton
L. Dort
Marvin Bagley
Markannen
Am I missing anyone? |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4541
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dennis100mtrash wrote: | | The Lakers need a trade with Bron/ad balling |
That’s the plan according to McMenamin if there playing 500 ball in mid December the FO is gonna try boosting the team with a trade. |
To be .500 in mid-Dec., we'd have to go 7-3 in a very hard part of the schedule -- 6 away games, 9 of 10 teams currently in playoff spots.
But maybe that's the Lakers thinking. We just did well against the worse teams in the league, and they are only going to push for a trade if the team shows it can do well against the better teams. Honestly, that seems unlikely, but we can always hope. |
I’m in the Pelinka is a dirty snake camp…he flat out said he would do anything, including trading pics to put the best team around LeBron…refusing to do that if they are below .500 12/5 is not keeping his word.
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governator
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Posts: 25151
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| So… this team with Bron and Brodie (sans Brow) is spurs level, we need shooters, tall shooters |
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logical24
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| So i think its safe to say after last nights win and Dennis rising Nunn/Pat might be on their way out. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| logical24 wrote: | | So i think its safe to say after last nights win and Dennis rising Nunn/Pat might be on their way out. |
Wouldn’t mind swapping them for a $18-$20m tall 3&D |
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Bron2AD
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | So i think its safe to say after last nights win and Dennis rising Nunn/Pat might be on their way out. |
Wouldn’t mind swapping them for a $18-$20m tall 3&D |
Both have 0 value unless u get long-term salary and with Jeanie being cheap I doubt they taking long term salary |
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Megaton
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Megaton
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | So i think its safe to say after last nights win and Dennis rising Nunn/Pat might be on their way out. |
Wouldn’t mind swapping them for a $18-$20m tall 3&D |
*Shouting Kelly Oubre from the rooftops”.
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