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DuncanIdaho
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The problem is, the Second Amendment has nothing to do with individual gun owners. It has to do with "well regulated militias". It doesn't matter how "law abiding" private citizens are, they aren't in militias. |
DC vs. Heller
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | You can address some of the issues that are correctable and could have positive results. Or you can pursue the pie in the sky ideas that will never happen and things will never change. |
OK. So what do you feel are "pie in the sky ideas" and why will they never happen . . . other than the stubborn selfishness of a segment of unreasonable politicians and citizens.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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White male insecurity and racism are the driving forces behind this country's affinity for firearms.
A coward with a gun is still a coward.
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DaMuleRules
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Something published in 1992 does not supersede a Supreme Court decision in 2008, so unless Heller is overturned, it is the law of the land.
When thinking of options here, it’s good to keep that in mind. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: |
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2nd amendment critique. The government control and requirements to own and drive a tank IMO should be the same as controlling what kinds of weapons citizens can own. The requirements to own weapons of war should parallel those to own and operate a tank? Both are unneeded. Try buying and operating a tank.
| Quote: | | Yet there is no strong interest by the citizenry in questioning the power of the State to regulate the purchase or the transfer of such a vehicle and the right to license the vehicle and the driver with reasonable standards. It is even more desirable for the State to have reasonable regulations for the ownership and use of a firearm in an effort to stop mindless homicidal carnage. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abe Lincoln |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | 2nd amendment critique. The government control and requirements to own and drive a tank IMO should be the same as controlling what kinds of weapons citizens can own. The requirements to own weapons of war should parallel those to own and operate a tank? Both are unneeded. Try buying and operating a tank.
| Quote: | | Yet there is no strong interest by the citizenry in questioning the power of the State to regulate the purchase or the transfer of such a vehicle and the right to license the vehicle and the driver with reasonable standards. It is even more desirable for the State to have reasonable regulations for the ownership and use of a firearm in an effort to stop mindless homicidal carnage. |
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I’m glad you brought this up.
It always really pisses me off that every gun control bill has exemptions for active duty law enforcement. Boulder just passed an AWB yesterday and guess what? Exemption for LE. In a time when police brutality and excessive force is still at the forefront of issues we’re dealing with, why are we giving them a pass? They’re citizens like everyone else. AND incidence of domestic violence is elevated with police too. (And to be clear, this means they can keep personal assault rifles too, not just duty rifles). |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: |
Something published in 1992 does not supersede a Supreme Court decision in 2008, so unless Heller is overturned, it is the law of the land.
When thinking of options here, it’s good to keep that in mind. |
The point is, opinion changes and thus the law of the land can (something we just got a very sobering wakeup call in regards to women's reproductive rights). The verbiage of the Second Amendment is very clear, despite how it has been "interpreted" in the interest of gun lobbies etc. over the years .
So I agree, when thinking of options in regards to common sense gun legislation, it's good to keep that in mind.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: |
Something published in 1992 does not supersede a Supreme Court decision in 2008, so unless Heller is overturned, it is the law of the land.
When thinking of options here, it’s good to keep that in mind. |
I clicked on that link. This is what it said:
| Quote: | Second Amendment Does Not Guarantee the Right To Own a Gun (From Gun Control, P 99-102, 1992, Charles P Cozic, ed. -- See NCJ-160164)
NCJ Number 160176
Author(s)
W E Burger
Date Published 1992
Length 4 pages
Annotation
Former Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court Warren Burger argues that the sale, purchase, and use of guns should be regulated just as automobiles and boats are regulated; such regulations would not violate the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Abstract
The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees a "right of the people to keep and bear arms." However, the meaning of this clause cannot be understood apart from the purpose, the setting, and the objectives of the draftsmen. At the time of the Bill of Rights, people were apprehensive about the new national government presented to them, and this helps explain the language and purpose of the Second Amendment.
It guarantees, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The need for a State militia was the predicate of the "right" guarantee, so as to protect the security of the State.
Today, of course, the State militia serves a different purpose. A huge national defense establishment has assumed the role of the militia of 200 years ago.
Americans have a right to defend their homes, and nothing should undermine this right; nor does anyone question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting anymore than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing. Neither does anyone question the right of citizens to keep and own an automobile.
Yet there is no strong interest by the citizenry in questioning the power of the State to regulate the purchase or the transfer of such a vehicle and the right to license the vehicle and the driver with reasonable standards. It is even more desirable for the State to have reasonable regulations for the ownership and use of a firearm in an effort to stop mindless homicidal carnage. |
Somehow, the title doesn't match what's in the body. |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | The point is, opinion changes and thus the law of the land can (something we just got a very sobering wakeup call in regards to women's reproductive rights). The verbiage of the Second Amendment is very clear, despite how it has been "interpreted" in the interest of gun lobbies etc. over the years .
So I agree, when thinking of options in regards to common sense gun legislation, it's good to keep that in mind. |
Yep, agreed. That was my point — with a 6-3 court (5-4 at worst) Heller isn’t getting overturned any time soon, so whatever solutions come up have to take it into consideration. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is consider a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
Something published in 1992 does not supersede a Supreme Court decision in 2008, so unless Heller is overturned, it is the law of the land.
When thinking of options here, it’s good to keep that in mind. |
The point is, opinion changes and thus the law of the land can (something we just got a very sobering wakeup call in regards to women's reproductive rights). The verbiage of the Second Amendment is very clear, despite how it has been "interpreted" in the interest of gun lobbies etc. over the years .
So I agree, when thinking of options in regards to common sense gun legislation, it's good to keep that in mind. |
A key term Our disagreements were bedded in interpretation. Your interpretations were formed by your conclusions. Mine on my intentions. That's not intended to initiate a debate, it's an example. The intentions of the 2nd amendment are clear unless they're interpreted to fit a chosen narrative. I hope that's not misinterpreted.
The intent of the 2nd amendment is crystal clear. Its intent is to arm and form militias to fight a corrupt government. Gun enthusiasts have twisted the intent to mean to give citizens the ability to own guns to defend themselves against unlawful violence.
I side with that intention with caveats. What weapons are necessary to achieve that defense? Assault weapons should not be included as legal weapons to own for personal defense. They are weapons of war.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abe Lincoln |
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Robblake
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2020
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | We live in a country where a guy perched up in his high rise hotel room shot 500 people. While it was shocking that someone could shoot 500 people in one sitting, the real shocker was that it was completely out of the news cycle inside of a month.
FIVE
HUNDRED
PEOPLE
Unfortunately, this tragedy is the latest of many and there will be more to come.
Those poor babies...  |
Why have top level people allowed for this to disappear from our psyche? I totally forgot this even happened. |
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Republicans and their media allies want the rest of the country to forget about mass shootings and how Republicans block legislation to make more shootings harder to happen.
Republicans are responsible for most of these acts of domestic terrorism. |
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Black20Ice
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Fourth-grade survivor of Uvalde massacre suffers 'cardiac arrest' after visiting her best friend's memorial to drop off a teddy bear, and has to be rushed to hospital
| Quote: | Illiana Treviño, 11, was sent to hospital last week when her heart rate dramatically increased after dropping off a teddy bear and flowers at 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza's memorial, who would prevent her from being bullied.
'Amerie would protect Illiana from bullies and always came to her aid,' the little girl's mother, Jessica Treviño, shared in a GoFundMe page to raise funds for medical bills. 'Her heart can't take the stress and trauma of this past week,' she wrote.
'We are barely seeing the ripples side effects of what this tragic incident has brought to our community,' her mother added in the fundraising, also mentioning that Illiana was sent to Children's Methodist Hospital in San Antonio - an hour-and-a-half drive from Uvalde. |
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10902805/Uvalde-survivor-11-suffers-cardiac-arrest-visiting-best-friends-memorial.html |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Black20Ice wrote: | Fourth-grade survivor of Uvalde massacre suffers 'cardiac arrest' after visiting her best friend's memorial to drop off a teddy bear, and has to be rushed to hospital
| Quote: | Illiana Treviño, 11, was sent to hospital last week when her heart rate dramatically increased after dropping off a teddy bear and flowers at 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza's memorial, who would prevent her from being bullied.
'Amerie would protect Illiana from bullies and always came to her aid,' the little girl's mother, Jessica Treviño, shared in a GoFundMe page to raise funds for medical bills. 'Her heart can't take the stress and trauma of this past week,' she wrote.
'We are barely seeing the ripples side effects of what this tragic incident has brought to our community,' her mother added in the fundraising, also mentioning that Illiana was sent to Children's Methodist Hospital in San Antonio - an hour-and-a-half drive from Uvalde. |
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10902805/Uvalde-survivor-11-suffers-cardiac-arrest-visiting-best-friends-memorial.html |
de·praved
/dəˈprāvd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: depraved
morally corrupt; wicked.
"a depraved indifference to human life"
^^Republicans and Capitalism itself |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is consider a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Black20Ice wrote: | Fourth-grade survivor of Uvalde massacre suffers 'cardiac arrest' after visiting her best friend's memorial to drop off a teddy bear, and has to be rushed to hospital
| Quote: | Illiana Treviño, 11, was sent to hospital last week when her heart rate dramatically increased after dropping off a teddy bear and flowers at 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza's memorial, who would prevent her from being bullied.
'Amerie would protect Illiana from bullies and always came to her aid,' the little girl's mother, Jessica Treviño, shared in a GoFundMe page to raise funds for medical bills. 'Her heart can't take the stress and trauma of this past week,' she wrote.
'We are barely seeing the ripples side effects of what this tragic incident has brought to our community,' her mother added in the fundraising, also mentioning that Illiana was sent to Children's Methodist Hospital in San Antonio - an hour-and-a-half drive from Uvalde. |
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10902805/Uvalde-survivor-11-suffers-cardiac-arrest-visiting-best-friends-memorial.html |
Illiana Treviño and other children who were there are going to be traumatized for life. I pray she and they will be able to overcome and achieve. I hope this is a one time event with no lasting effects. 🙏🏾 
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abe Lincoln |
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hoopschick29
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Joined: 23 Jul 2004
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Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Black20Ice wrote: | Fourth-grade survivor of Uvalde massacre suffers 'cardiac arrest' after visiting her best friend's memorial to drop off a teddy bear, and has to be rushed to hospital
| Quote: | Illiana Treviño, 11, was sent to hospital last week when her heart rate dramatically increased after dropping off a teddy bear and flowers at 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza's memorial, who would prevent her from being bullied.
'Amerie would protect Illiana from bullies and always came to her aid,' the little girl's mother, Jessica Treviño, shared in a GoFundMe page to raise funds for medical bills. 'Her heart can't take the stress and trauma of this past week,' she wrote.
'We are barely seeing the ripples side effects of what this tragic incident has brought to our community,' her mother added in the fundraising, also mentioning that Illiana was sent to Children's Methodist Hospital in San Antonio - an hour-and-a-half drive from Uvalde. |
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10902805/Uvalde-survivor-11-suffers-cardiac-arrest-visiting-best-friends-memorial.html |
Illiana Treviño and other children who were there are going to be traumatized for life. I pray she and they will be able to overcome and achieve. I hope this is a one time event with no lasting effects. 🙏🏾 |
The suffering from this horrible tragedy will have no bottom. This will follow them all the days of their lives.
Remember the Chowchilla School Bus Kidnapping?? Decades later, most of them are still suffering major trauma and side effects from having guns in their faces and essentially being buried alive. Many of them have had a rough go of life.
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So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Some people never get over losing their best friend
Reminder, these kids lay next to their dying friends and forced themselves to have NO sound no tears no crying out as any animal would.. they had to lay there in each other blood for an hour wishing just one cop was good and wholesome enough to try to save their lives or their friends
NOPE...
Imagine the hatred and confusion she will have for law enforcement the rest her existence. At least she learned early she can't trust anyone in her country to do the right thing |
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder
https://youtu.be/xwTSsQBS0nw
(Uvalde Police Are Scared Guys With Guns) |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 89719
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | The point is, opinion changes and thus the law of the land can (something we just got a very sobering wakeup call in regards to women's reproductive rights). The verbiage of the Second Amendment is very clear, despite how it has been "interpreted" in the interest of gun lobbies etc. over the years .
So I agree, when thinking of options in regards to common sense gun legislation, it's good to keep that in mind. |
Yep, agreed. That was my point — with a 6-3 court (5-4 at worst) Heller isn’t getting overturned any time soon, so whatever solutions come up have to take it into consideration. |
Sadly, agree with DI. There are a lot of people demanding a lot of action from the system that just can’t legally be done. The only way to get it done is to outvote them, legislate, and retake the courts. It is also a huge example of how elections have consequences. Hillary wins and there is no conservative Supreme Court, and no massive filling of lower courts with conservative partisans. Anyone who didn’t vote for Hillary or who is considering sitting out this year or 2024 needs to wake up, and go organize a few of their like minded friends.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | The point is, opinion changes and thus the law of the land can (something we just got a very sobering wakeup call in regards to women's reproductive rights). The verbiage of the Second Amendment is very clear, despite how it has been "interpreted" in the interest of gun lobbies etc. over the years .
So I agree, when thinking of options in regards to common sense gun legislation, it's good to keep that in mind. |
Yep, agreed. That was my point — with a 6-3 court (5-4 at worst) Heller isn’t getting overturned any time soon, so whatever solutions come up have to take it into consideration. |
We are straying from the original point here, which was bastardizing the Second Amendment to justify unreasonable gun ownership. It doesn't matter how much the Second Amendment has been "interpreted" to justify unfettered gun ownership, the reality is the Second Amendment is very clear on what its terms were.
If we are going to see safe and reasonable gun regulation, we need to move past making specious references to the Amendment. No sane society should continue down a path where it places more value on someone's "right" to own needless weaponry over the lives of its citizens, particularly its children's.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Texas Police Want Uvalde Bodycam Footage Suppressed Because It Could Expose Law Enforcement ‘Weakness’
The Texas Department of Public Safety asked the state's Attorney General to prevent the public release of body camera footage in response to a public records request from Motherboard.
The Texas Department of Public Safety has asked the state's Office of the Attorney General to prevent the public release of police body camera footage from the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde in part because, it argues, the footage could be used by other shooters to determine "weaknesses" in police response to crimes.
The office of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton will now review audio and body camera footage recorded by the department to determine if any of it can be released, according to a letter the department sent Motherboard in response to a public records request we filed asking for "photographs and audio as well as video records" recorded by Department of Public Safety officers.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgpe3g/texas-police-say-body-camera-footage-from-uvalde-could-be-used-to-find-weakness-by-other-shooters-ask-ag-to-suppress-it |
And the coverup begins. I hope they're ordered to release the footage so the world can see their cowardice.
I'd argue that the "weakness" it will show is that the police don't respond to crimes at all, and let shooters rampage for an hour while parents beg and scream.
Disgusted. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Those families need a class action suit against the police. And also sue the state of Texas if the AG agrees to block release of body cam footage.
And that super-brave mom should be awarded a medal not harassed and threatened by cowardly police. Hope she sues their asses off if they retaliate against her.
Flipping disgraceful cowards and bullies. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Quote: | Texas Police Want Uvalde Bodycam Footage Suppressed Because It Could Expose Law Enforcement ‘Weakness’
The Texas Department of Public Safety asked the state's Attorney General to prevent the public release of body camera footage in response to a public records request from Motherboard.
The Texas Department of Public Safety has asked the state's Office of the Attorney General to prevent the public release of police body camera footage from the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde in part because, it argues, the footage could be used by other shooters to determine "weaknesses" in police response to crimes.
The office of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton will now review audio and body camera footage recorded by the department to determine if any of it can be released, according to a letter the department sent Motherboard in response to a public records request we filed asking for "photographs and audio as well as video records" recorded by Department of Public Safety officers.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgpe3g/texas-police-say-body-camera-footage-from-uvalde-could-be-used-to-find-weakness-by-other-shooters-ask-ag-to-suppress-it |
And the coverup begins. I hope they're ordered to release the footage so the world can see their cowardice.
I'd argue that the "weakness" it will show is that the police don't respond to crimes at all, and let shooters rampage for an hour while parents beg and scream.
Disgusted. |
Yep. It’d be great to see the video and audio released, but everyone knows that Ulvalde’s only tactic is cowardice.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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