Head Coach Mr. DARVIN HAM Thread
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:39 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

My fear is that Russ believes he is now entitled to start, and if in training camp/regular season it proves otherwise, that will be quite the feat for Ham as a rookie coach. Make no mistake, the team will be trying to trade Russ from today until the trade deadline in 2023.


As you have yourself noted as long as Westbrook is on the team Ham has to plan for it, in multiple ways, not just to prop up for his trade value but also to gain Westbrook's willing cooperation on his plans.
Here is where we begin to diverge and I start to side with other posters: telling Westbrook the starting spot is not his could close the door on his willing cooperation PLUS create a difficult situation for the FO by immediately putting to lie their "Westbrook was ill-used" narrative. Creating that rift ahead of a Westbrook trade is completely unnecessary, a *pragmatic* head coach is likely think as follows.
If Westbrook is traded, nothing is lost, his Plan B (which he has not divulged) comes into action.
But if Westbrook remains and starts IF after 25-30 games a $45 million tax-paying team with Lebron AND AD is lagging in the playoff standings, it would be a clear FO failure, Ham will find ownership/Klutch screaming in unison to shake things up - and he can be the savior, turn the spotlight on Westbrook/FO. If Westbrook pouts, it just goes in Ham's favor - "hey I tried" If however, by some miracle, the team has a decent record (no matter how Westbrook actually plays), Ham gets all the credit, he becomes the golden boy. He wins every which way.


I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>
I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Yeah. But my friend politics is everywhere, humans just can't help it.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:57 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>
I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Yeah. But my friend politics is everywhere, humans just can't help it.


Yeah. I can understand if there was genuinely a salvageable product. I don't expect that he will be a good 3 point shooter (or that teams will respect his jumper enough to stop roving off of him) or even an above average defender. But we have to cater to him, even though it won't IMO affect the value of his expiring deal. He could play reasonably "well" and the trade demands will likely stay the same. He could play horribly like last year and the trade demands will likely stay the same.

My worry is they will again waste the first 20-25 games just engaging in this nonsense and that may be the season in a tougher West.
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AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:17 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

My fear is that Russ believes he is now entitled to start, and if in training camp/regular season it proves otherwise, that will be quite the feat for Ham as a rookie coach. Make no mistake, the team will be trying to trade Russ from today until the trade deadline in 2023.


As you have yourself noted as long as Westbrook is on the team Ham has to plan for it, in multiple ways, not just to prop up for his trade value but also to gain Westbrook's willing cooperation on his plans.
Here is where we begin to diverge and I start to side with other posters: telling Westbrook the starting spot is not his could close the door on his willing cooperation PLUS create a difficult situation for the FO by immediately putting to lie their "Westbrook was ill-used" narrative. Creating that rift ahead of a Westbrook trade is completely unnecessary, a *pragmatic* head coach is likely think as follows.
If Westbrook is traded, nothing is lost, his Plan B (which he has not divulged) comes into action.
But if Westbrook remains and starts IF after 25-30 games a $45 million tax-paying team with Lebron AND AD is lagging in the playoff standings, it would be a clear FO failure, Ham will find ownership/Klutch screaming in unison to shake things up - and he can be the savior, turn the spotlight on Westbrook/FO. If Westbrook pouts, it just goes in Ham's favor - "hey I tried" If however, by some miracle, the team has a decent record (no matter how Westbrook actually plays), Ham gets all the credit, he becomes the golden boy. He wins every which way.


I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Cater to him? My god did Russell sleep with your woman or piss in your cornflakes? Asking him to play outside of what he’s used to by no means is catering to him. He’s a MVP in this league. Is he what he used to be? No but he’s far from trash. What has any of these guys you want to start over him done?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Hamm will do a great job.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:27 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Hamm will do a great job.


Hamm has a great plan but the Players have to execute it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Hamm will do a great job.


Hamm has a great plan but the Players have to execute it.


Hamm looks tough and friendly at the same time
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:38 am    Post subject:

I'm wondering what Vogel would be able to do with this current line up.. a bunch of athletic defensive guys with youth..

Poor guy got let go because he wasn't able to fit a square peg in a round hole
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
I'm wondering what Vogel would be able to do with this current line up.. a bunch of athletic defensive guys with youth..

Poor guy got let go because he wasn't able to fit a square peg in a round hole


Why wouldn't he given that he created a Top defense twice with the Lakers and several times previously (Indiana) as a head-coach with a host of different players?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:49 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
I'm wondering what Vogel would be able to do with this current line up.. a bunch of athletic defensive guys with youth..

Poor guy got let go because he wasn't able to fit a square peg in a round hole

he would have done great. excellent coach.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:53 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
I'm wondering what Vogel would be able to do with this current line up.. a bunch of athletic defensive guys with youth..

Poor guy got let go because he wasn't able to fit a square peg in a round hole


I agree that the lakers screwed up and put him in a bad place, and that he also lacks flexibility.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:29 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

My fear is that Russ believes he is now entitled to start, and if in training camp/regular season it proves otherwise, that will be quite the feat for Ham as a rookie coach. Make no mistake, the team will be trying to trade Russ from today until the trade deadline in 2023.


As you have yourself noted as long as Westbrook is on the team Ham has to plan for it, in multiple ways, not just to prop up for his trade value but also to gain Westbrook's willing cooperation on his plans.
Here is where we begin to diverge and I start to side with other posters: telling Westbrook the starting spot is not his could close the door on his willing cooperation PLUS create a difficult situation for the FO by immediately putting to lie their "Westbrook was ill-used" narrative. Creating that rift ahead of a Westbrook trade is completely unnecessary, a *pragmatic* head coach is likely think as follows.
If Westbrook is traded, nothing is lost, his Plan B (which he has not divulged) comes into action.
But if Westbrook remains and starts IF after 25-30 games a $45 million tax-paying team with Lebron AND AD is lagging in the playoff standings, it would be a clear FO failure, Ham will find ownership/Klutch screaming in unison to shake things up - and he can be the savior, turn the spotlight on Westbrook/FO. If Westbrook pouts, it just goes in Ham's favor - "hey I tried" If however, by some miracle, the team has a decent record (no matter how Westbrook actually plays), Ham gets all the credit, he becomes the golden boy. He wins every which way.


I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Cater to him? My god did Russell sleep with your woman or piss in your cornflakes? Asking him to play outside of what he’s used to by no means is catering to him. He’s a MVP in this league. Is he what he used to be? No but he’s far from trash. What has any of these guys you want to start over him done?

Yes. It’s catering to him bc he has a fragile ego. Listen to his exit interview. He was once a great player but it always had to be under his terms. Once he joined a team with better players he couldn’t adapt. And he won’t adapt. Fifth team in five years tells all you need to know.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Hamm will do a great job.


Hamm has a great plan but the Players have to execute it.

I think they will but he has a pass year unless we get kyrie and even then the narrative is 50/50 if it will work. It will.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:16 am    Post subject:

Darvin Ham needs an enforcer https://streamable.com/6nvcab
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Darvin Ham needs an enforcer https://streamable.com/6nvcab

Nice.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Fish to Ham’s coaching bench confirmed.

https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1545937047759728640
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:41 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Fish to Ham’s coaching bench confirmed.

https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1545937047759728640


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:54 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

My fear is that Russ believes he is now entitled to start, and if in training camp/regular season it proves otherwise, that will be quite the feat for Ham as a rookie coach. Make no mistake, the team will be trying to trade Russ from today until the trade deadline in 2023.


As you have yourself noted as long as Westbrook is on the team Ham has to plan for it, in multiple ways, not just to prop up for his trade value but also to gain Westbrook's willing cooperation on his plans.
Here is where we begin to diverge and I start to side with other posters: telling Westbrook the starting spot is not his could close the door on his willing cooperation PLUS create a difficult situation for the FO by immediately putting to lie their "Westbrook was ill-used" narrative. Creating that rift ahead of a Westbrook trade is completely unnecessary, a *pragmatic* head coach is likely think as follows.
If Westbrook is traded, nothing is lost, his Plan B (which he has not divulged) comes into action.
But if Westbrook remains and starts IF after 25-30 games a $45 million tax-paying team with Lebron AND AD is lagging in the playoff standings, it would be a clear FO failure, Ham will find ownership/Klutch screaming in unison to shake things up - and he can be the savior, turn the spotlight on Westbrook/FO. If Westbrook pouts, it just goes in Ham's favor - "hey I tried" If however, by some miracle, the team has a decent record (no matter how Westbrook actually plays), Ham gets all the credit, he becomes the golden boy. He wins every which way.


I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Cater to him? My god did Russell sleep with your woman or piss in your cornflakes? Asking him to play outside of what he’s used to by no means is catering to him. He’s a MVP in this league. Is he what he used to be? No but he’s far from trash. What has any of these guys you want to start over him done?

Yes. It’s catering to him bc he has a fragile ego. Listen to his exit interview. He was once a great player but it always had to be under his terms. Once he joined a team with better players he couldn’t adapt. And he won’t adapt. Fifth team in five years tells all you need to know.


Can you show me the plan frank had for russ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:46 am    Post subject:

Quote:
“The way the roster was built out, it wasn’t enough youth, it wasn’t enough athleticism, and when you have a big three like Russ, AD, ‘Bron, you want to put as much youth around them as possible.”

⁃ Darvin Ham on last season’s roster during his appearance on The VC Show


So refreshing to hear this. No one actually believes Russ is part of a big 3, FFS finally someone who calls it like he sees it with the lack of young, legitimate NBA players on the roster.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
“The way the roster was built out, it wasn’t enough youth, it wasn’t enough athleticism, and when you have a big three like Russ, AD, ‘Bron, you want to put as much youth around them as possible.”

⁃ Darvin Ham on last season’s roster during his appearance on The VC Show


So refreshing to hear this. No one actually believes Russ is part of a big 3, FFS finally someone who calls it like he sees it with the lack of young, legitimate NBA players on the roster.


Listened to the entire interview and came away with this...

1. Ham kept saying last season wasn't all Russ' fault. When you read that it sounds like he's sympathizing with Russ. When you hear him say it, it's him saying Russ was part of the problem, but not the only problem. Old legs and injuries were major factors too. This makes me feel so much better about Ham.

2. He also said Russ promised him to be a pitbull on D. Ham said, "You should have never told me that." So Ham being in his corner from the gate makes sense...if Russ messes around Ham sounds like he'll bench him in a split second.

Ham is setting himself up beautifully.

If we're stuck with Russ, then he backed him from the beginning, so if Russ works out by some ancient miracle he'll look like a genius...if Russ acts like Russ, he'll bench him or send him home.

Primary ball handler? Nope, not in this system.

Sagging off his man to hunt for rebounds? Nope.

Falling asleep off ball? Nope.

Russ acting like Russ? Hopefully this is some other team's problem, but if it's ours...that interview with VC made me feel a lot better.

Ham isn't just happy to finally be a HC...he expects to win.

Let's get it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:51 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

<snip>

My fear is that Russ believes he is now entitled to start, and if in training camp/regular season it proves otherwise, that will be quite the feat for Ham as a rookie coach. Make no mistake, the team will be trying to trade Russ from today until the trade deadline in 2023.


As you have yourself noted as long as Westbrook is on the team Ham has to plan for it, in multiple ways, not just to prop up for his trade value but also to gain Westbrook's willing cooperation on his plans.
Here is where we begin to diverge and I start to side with other posters: telling Westbrook the starting spot is not his could close the door on his willing cooperation PLUS create a difficult situation for the FO by immediately putting to lie their "Westbrook was ill-used" narrative. Creating that rift ahead of a Westbrook trade is completely unnecessary, a *pragmatic* head coach is likely think as follows.
If Westbrook is traded, nothing is lost, his Plan B (which he has not divulged) comes into action.
But if Westbrook remains and starts IF after 25-30 games a $45 million tax-paying team with Lebron AND AD is lagging in the playoff standings, it would be a clear FO failure, Ham will find ownership/Klutch screaming in unison to shake things up - and he can be the savior, turn the spotlight on Westbrook/FO. If Westbrook pouts, it just goes in Ham's favor - "hey I tried" If however, by some miracle, the team has a decent record (no matter how Westbrook actually plays), Ham gets all the credit, he becomes the golden boy. He wins every which way.


I get that, but it's incredible that we will have to cater to him (a guy we are trying to trade) and not giving other teammates a fair chance at the starting position and players who are a better fit. We cannot mess around for 20-25 games and expect to be in the playoffs in the West. Every game matters and the fact we may be distracted with making Russ's feelings aren't hurt is a sideshow.


Cater to him? My god did Russell sleep with your woman or piss in your cornflakes? Asking him to play outside of what he’s used to by no means is catering to him. He’s a MVP in this league. Is he what he used to be? No but he’s far from trash. What has any of these guys you want to start over him done?


So the question becomes if Westbrook is what you think he is why are we having to beg teams to trade him why are we having to give up first round picks to move him if he was good we wouldn’t need to do that and I’m not saying that he can’t reclaim some of his old form I believe he can but we are definitely selling low
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:16 am    Post subject:

Coach Ham wants all the smoke & he don’t give a F what you think about the Russ PR campaign he’s been on.

Quote:
Darvin Ham: We’ve all had years where we could have done better, had better performances or circumstances didn’t quite go our way. And I think just everyone knows what type of year the Lakers went through last year. And it wasn’t all Russell Westbrook’s fault. When you go back and look at the games missed by LeBron James at different segments add a different set. Those three (Westbrook, James and Anthony Davis) only got to play a total of 22 games together. You’re talking about an 82-game season. And so just the different various energy injuries with people within the lineup that were dependent upon within the rotation. Russ having to carry a load and you’re trying to go sign, G League guys, you got COVID, people being put in the protocol because of the COVID. So for all of this to be heaped on Russ, it’s kind of unfair, in a sense and unfair reality, to be quite honest. – via The Ringer


https://youtu.be/Y7TZetnNDh0
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:00 am    Post subject:

Lakers have an issue understanding that FIT sometimes trumps TALENT. There is no dispute that from a pure talent standpoint, Russ is a better talent than someone like Nunn, Reaves. He's a future 1st ballot HOFer, a former MVP, etc.

But fit-wise? I don't think he's a better fit next to LBJ/AD than Nunn/Reaves. They don't need the ball in their hands to operate. They move off ball and cut, and for Nunn, can shoot the 3.

We used to understand that fit > just talent as recently as 2020 when we won the ring.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:47 am    Post subject:

I think you mean:

TalentDelta = TalentB - TalentA (assuming B > A)
TalentA + Fit > TalentB + TalentDelta

Depends on how large that TalentDelta is.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:35 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
I think you mean:

TalentDelta = TalentB - TalentA (assuming B > A)
TalentA + Fit > TalentB + TalentDelta

Depends on how large that TalentDelta is.


Ideally a team that acquires the talented player already sees the in-built fit, or the possibility for same. But Russ, I think lots of people knew that the fit with LBJ/AD would be awkward at best, and it was really poor.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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