Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion
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BigBallerBrand
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:35 pm    Post subject: Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

First was Crimea a few years ago, and now Putin has the audacity to take on Ukraine as a whole….why isn’t the rest of the world worried? We saw this before with Hitler
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Is what Russia is doing with Ukraine similar to what Nazi Germany did to Czechoslovakia?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
First was Crimea a few years ago, and now Putin has the audacity to take on Ukraine as a whole….why isn’t the rest of the world worried? We saw this before with Hitler


War fatigue....unfortunately Putin is counting on Europe not standing for itself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Is what Russia is doing with Ukraine similar to what Nazi Germany did to Czechoslovakia?

lakersken80 wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
First was Crimea a few years ago, and now Putin has the audacity to take on Ukraine as a whole….why isn’t the rest of the world worried? We saw this before with Hitler


War fatigue....unfortunately Putin is counting on Europe not standing for itself.


Putin has been waging a psyops campaign for a long time seeking to fracture democratic alliances (note the “I’d rather be Russian than a democrat” shirts) because there is no way he can compete militarily or economically (his country’s economy is the size of Italy’s and most of his cash resources come from extraction commodities), but if he can turn the western alliance into a fractured bunch of tribes, he can get what he wants.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:59 pm    Post subject:

Lets not forget that European countries are also heavily dependent on Russian energy. Economically they are more intertwined with Russia than the USA. A country like Germany is not going to protest Russian actions since they have energy pipelines going directly to their country (Nordstream 2).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:02 am    Post subject:

The energy situation is not the brightest in Europe right now, but this winter has been a big wake-up call, this doesn't mean that the European countries won't oppose to Russia though.

Western and northern Europe do have no sympathy and comprehension of any war activities, in their mind this is no acceptable behavior for modern societies. Eastern Europe is not quite there yet and they have the russian influence background which is quite visible in cultural behavior.

Putin is though in a win only situation. If he invades Ukraine he tells everybody Nato threatened him and he defended "his" country. If he doesn't he will say he saved Europe from an energy crisis because he didn't shut down nordstream. All of this will distract from the big issues he has in his own country. So as long as he doesn't piss of the chinese he's fine and will come out as a winner in his country. Maybe not with the common people who have (bleep) conditions to live in... but with the rich elite.

Sanctions against Russia might not be the best idea, they really got their agriculture going out of necessity last time they got sanctioned. So they are actually stronger because of sanctions.

I wouldn't compare him to Hitler though, that austrian jewish guy had some serious psychopathic issues.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject:

Think with WW1 and WW2 still on their minds, Europeans aren't keen in engage in any major conflicts in their backyard because they will be the ones that lose the most. It will be their cities that will be reduced to rubble and millions will pay with it with their lives. So you can understand why they would be skittish even if an invasion seems imminent. They think they can keep it confined to a corner of Europe most Europeans probably don't visit anyways.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:57 am    Post subject:

In Spanish, Putin is akin to little puto.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject:

What about Putins Hypersonic missile. he could hit 4 European Capitols before they could even respond

Would he be dumb enough to risk an actual WAR

Trump gave these guys tons of intel
We even had to remove Spies in Russia for fear he would give up their identities and locations if he know them
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:47 am    Post subject:

What is the issue between Russia and Ukraine?

Is it as simple as Putin just wanting their natural resources and territory or is there something more to it?

I do agree with the poster above about "war fatigue" being an issue as to why more countries aren't stepping up.

My opinion: The United States cannot be the world's policeman. If other countries in Europe closer to Russia can't/won't step up, the last thing we should do is get involved in a direct military confrontation with Russia.

I don't support countries being attacked, but we can't go this alone and I don't want to see American armed forces wounded/killed over a dispute that doesn't involve us.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:59 am    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
The energy situation is not the brightest in Europe right now, but this winter has been a big wake-up call, this doesn't mean that the European countries won't oppose to Russia though.

Western and northern Europe do have no sympathy and comprehension of any war activities, in their mind this is no acceptable behavior for modern societies. Eastern Europe is not quite there yet and they have the russian influence background which is quite visible in cultural behavior.

Putin is though in a win only situation. If he invades Ukraine he tells everybody Nato threatened him and he defended "his" country. If he doesn't he will say he saved Europe from an energy crisis because he didn't shut down nordstream. All of this will distract from the big issues he has in his own country. So as long as he doesn't piss of the chinese he's fine and will come out as a winner in his country. Maybe not with the common people who have (bleep) conditions to live in... but with the rich elite.

Sanctions against Russia might not be the best idea, they really got their agriculture going out of necessity last time they got sanctioned. So they are actually stronger because of sanctions.

I wouldn't compare him to Hitler though, that austrian jewish guy had some serious psychopathic issues.


They are not stronger because of sanctions. Their economy plummeted big time the last time around and it will only get worse if he attempts to play warmonger again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:01 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
What is the issue between Russia and Ukraine?

Is it as simple as Putin just wanting their natural resources and territory or is there something more to it?

I do agree with the poster above about "war fatigue" being an issue as to why more countries aren't stepping up.

My opinion: The United States cannot be the world's policeman. If other countries in Europe closer to Russia can't/won't step up, the last thing we should do is get involved in a direct military confrontation with Russia.

I don't support countries being attacked, but we can't go this alone and I don't want to see American armed forces wounded/killed over a dispute that doesn't involve us.


Ukraine is even poorer than Russia, so god knows what he wants. He's still akin for the good old days of the USSR and they consider their western neighbours as Russians anyway, so perhaps that's what he's after.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:03 am    Post subject:

The US and Russia can’t fight a direct war because of nukes. The best thing to have did would be to have brought Ukraine into NATO, where Russia can’t attack it without attacking all of NATO. But due to internal and external (including Trump) political issues, that never happened. So it’s a proxy war or else it’s a nuclear war.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Is what Russia is doing with Ukraine similar to what Nazi Germany did to Czechoslovakia?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
First was Crimea a few years ago, and now Putin has the audacity to take on Ukraine as a whole….why isn’t the rest of the world worried? We saw this before with Hitler

The long-term danger would be a potential axis of China and Russia, but Putin's ambition seems constrained right now to re-annexing former Soviet colonies rather than global hegemony. Those limited ambitions combined with US war fatigue and several NATO allies' reliance on Russian energy supplies has held them back from a more aggressive response to Putin's agenda...which has further emboldened him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject:

Nobody wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
What is the issue between Russia and Ukraine?

Is it as simple as Putin just wanting their natural resources and territory or is there something more to it?

I do agree with the poster above about "war fatigue" being an issue as to why more countries aren't stepping up.

My opinion: The United States cannot be the world's policeman. If other countries in Europe closer to Russia can't/won't step up, the last thing we should do is get involved in a direct military confrontation with Russia.

I don't support countries being attacked, but we can't go this alone and I don't want to see American armed forces wounded/killed over a dispute that doesn't involve us.


Ukraine is even poorer than Russia, so god knows what he wants. He's still akin for the good old days of the USSR and they consider their western neighbours as Russians anyway, so perhaps that's what he's after.

That's it. He's ruling a decaying imperial power he and his cronies have been bleeding dry while the nation's best and brightest move abroad if they're not jailed or assassinated for being critics of Putin's autocracy or the oligarchs' kleptocracy.

What better way to feed his ego and distract Russian citizens from their worsening quality of life than appeal to the good ol' days of the USSR with some warmongering and territorial expansion?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Interesting comparison - After WWI, Europe was so tired and weary (similar to how Europe is probably feeling now, with what is happening with Covid, the economy, etc.). Ultimately, I think the presence of nuclear bombs (and the possibility of mutual destruction) makes it unlikely that traditional world wars happen again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:15 pm    Post subject:

The Ukraine was known as the breadbasket of the Soviet Union. Along with other resources, Putin would like to control that large agricultural production.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:37 am    Post subject:

This looks similar to Iraq/USA BUT there is no history of offenses against Russia by Ukraine?

This is so grotesque after that SHOCK AND AWE (bleep) after 9/11
Livestreaming bombs killing innocent Iraqis
finding out later we killed 100,000+ people and for what

How do we as Americans deal with all the murders our tax dollars paid for and then think we have any moral high ground?

I can say Russia and Putin are horrible but so was the USA and Bush/Obama/Trump

Why do humans think they can create a word called War and then murder people -- Collateral Damage is murder
War is not peace

Sorry.. just extremely confused about human violence
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
This looks similar to Iraq/USA BUT there is no history of offenses against Russia by Ukraine?

This is so grotesque after that SHOCK AND AWE (bleep) after 9/11
Livestreaming bombs killing innocent Iraqis
finding out later we killed 100,000+ people and for what

How do we as Americans deal with all the murders our tax dollars paid for and then think we have any moral high ground?

I can say Russia and Putin are horrible but so was the USA and Bush/Obama/Trump

Why do humans think they can create a word called War and then murder people -- Collateral Damage is murder
War is not peace

Sorry.. just extremely confused about human violence


US will not put troops into Ukraine. Its a sure loss scenario considering Russia could basically rush troops into the country. All we can do is give them weapons to defend themselves from an invasion and make occupation hell for them like when they invaded Afghanistan during the 80's.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:15 pm    Post subject:

I think Biden is going to try to Bankrupt Russian Oligarchs
He will put sanctions on anyone and everyone involved with Putin.

My stress is it is hard for me as an American that we murder thousands upon thousands using the term War.. and now when I see another country doing the same thing I lose my ability to condemn them since I am a member of a warmonger country

One of the biggest problems is Trump intentionally helped Putin/Russia forge strong relations with China. Trumps tariffs hurt us in so many ways but China chose to build Soybean farms in Russia and South America. Building the largest railways ever to ship their soybeans

^That is an important relationship.. feeds their billions of people.

I also still wonder how far Putin is willing to take this. Do other countries have Hypsersonic nuclear tipped missiles like he does?


Why Russia's Hypersonic Missiles Can't Be Seen on Radar
https://www.military.com/equipment/weapons/why-russias-hypersonic-missiles-cant-be-seen-radar.html

Russia Deploys Hypersonic Missile To Baltic In Range Of NATO Capitals
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2022/02/08/russia-deploys-hypersonic-missile-to-baltic-in-range-of-nato-capitols/?sh=310898c4217e
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:21 pm    Post subject:

This country has weapons as deadly and deadlier than Russia's, but we're not in the habit of showing them off . . .

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:23 pm    Post subject:

FernieBee wrote:
This country has weapons as deadly and deadlier than Russia's, but we're not in the habit of showing them off . . .



thank you very much for the optimism

I read that Biden detailing the espionage we have on their attack plans was showing off some of our tech in a good way
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
What is the issue between Russia and Ukraine?

Is it as simple as Putin just wanting their natural resources and territory or is there something more to it?

I do agree with the poster above about "war fatigue" being an issue as to why more countries aren't stepping up.

My opinion: The United States cannot be the world's policeman. If other countries in Europe closer to Russia can't/won't step up, the last thing we should do is get involved in a direct military confrontation with Russia.

I don't support countries being attacked, but we can't go this alone and I don't want to see American armed forces wounded/killed over a dispute that doesn't involve us.


Ukraine is even poorer than Russia, so god knows what he wants. He's still akin for the good old days of the USSR and they consider their western neighbours as Russians anyway, so perhaps that's what he's after.

That's it. He's ruling a decaying imperial power he and his cronies have been bleeding dry while the nation's best and brightest move abroad if they're not jailed or assassinated for being critics of Putin's autocracy or the oligarchs' kleptocracy.

What better way to feed his ego and distract Russian citizens from their worsening quality of life than appeal to the good ol' days of the USSR with some warmongering and territorial expansion?


The Russian public want no part of what he is planning. This is why Russian state TV is in overdrive trying to make the case for retaking Ukraine. Putin wants the boost for expanding the Russian borders closer to the good ol' days of the USSR. But a failed occupation would mean the end of his regime. I could see a long drawn out conflict with what happened in Afghanistan during the 80's or Chechen Wars. You will see Ukrainians participating in asymmetric warfare since conventional warfare will play to the Russian armed forces strength.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:16 pm    Post subject:

The Russians and Ukrainians who work as contractors don't believe the BS Russia is pushing off. They all think it's Russia pushing their bogus agenda.

But like the Iraq war was for me, when I knew they blatantly lied about the WMD (and the intel was made up), it doesn't seem to matter what the people think. It will just simply happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:31 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
What is the issue between Russia and Ukraine?

Is it as simple as Putin just wanting their natural resources and territory or is there something more to it?

I do agree with the poster above about "war fatigue" being an issue as to why more countries aren't stepping up.

My opinion: The United States cannot be the world's policeman. If other countries in Europe closer to Russia can't/won't step up, the last thing we should do is get involved in a direct military confrontation with Russia.

I don't support countries being attacked, but we can't go this alone and I don't want to see American armed forces wounded/killed over a dispute that doesn't involve us.


Ukraine is even poorer than Russia, so god knows what he wants. He's still akin for the good old days of the USSR and they consider their western neighbours as Russians anyway, so perhaps that's what he's after.

That's it. He's ruling a decaying imperial power he and his cronies have been bleeding dry while the nation's best and brightest move abroad if they're not jailed or assassinated for being critics of Putin's autocracy or the oligarchs' kleptocracy.

What better way to feed his ego and distract Russian citizens from their worsening quality of life than appeal to the good ol' days of the USSR with some warmongering and territorial expansion?


The Russian public want no part of what he is planning. This is why Russian state TV is in overdrive trying to make the case for retaking Ukraine. Putin wants the boost for expanding the Russian borders closer to the good ol' days of the USSR. But a failed occupation would mean the end of his regime. I could see a long drawn out conflict with what happened in Afghanistan during the 80's or Chechen Wars. You will see Ukrainians participating in asymmetric warfare since conventional warfare will play to the Russian armed forces strength.

Thank you for the info. The Russian propoganda machine very much seems like the GWBush agitprop build-up into the second Iraq war but unlike with the U.S. and Iraq, Ukraine will cost Putin his empire eventually.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:34 pm    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
The Russians and Ukrainians who work as contractors don't believe the BS Russia is pushing off. They all think it's Russia pushing their bogus agenda.

But like the Iraq war was for me, when I knew they blatantly lied about the WMD (and the intel was made up), it doesn't seem to matter what the people think. It will just simply happen.

The intel wasn't "made up" before the Iraq War.
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