PACERS -at- LAKERS - 1-19-22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:56 pm    Post subject: PACERS -at- LAKERS - 1-19-22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

fRUSStration... A tough pill to swallow for the Lakers, losing to the Pacers at home and certain guys closing/not closing this game.

The Lakers trotted out their oldies to start the game, inserting Dwight into the mix to deal with Sabonis. Good start by this veteran group as they quickly built a lead.

The team then shuffled through their smaller lineups as the Pacers Sabonis’s got his first rest. They’d build a 15-point lead in the first half, but then lost it when L.A. had a weak-shooting lineup with LeBron/Ariza/Johnson/Bradley/Westbrook. The Lakers would still lead 56-50 at the half.

They gave up the lead in the third, but the moment Russ sat, the Lakers lineup of Melo/Johnson/THT/Reaves/Monk bench unit ran off a 12-2 run to help regain the lead. Good job by that feisty bench unit.

The Pacers wouldn’t go away and evened things up early in the fourth. Vogel called a timeout, went back to Russ in the lineup and in a minute, they were down by 7 after a missed shot by Wesbrook on one end, then giving up easy scores on the other. Vogel called another timeout.

Down 7 with about 4 minutes left to go, Vogel sat Westbrook (5-17 and a -18). Willing to make that move, shows some change in thinking. But he hurt himself by going with Melo down the stretch.

It wasn’t that Melo missed two threes. It was the atrocious defense giving up wide open threes, lost on D on the other end. He got picked on and that was that.

In the previous game, Vogel didn’t have this option available. He did tonight and it cost the team the 111-104 loss.

There will be a lot made about sitting Russ, who no doubt is frustrated. He left the arena without speaking to the press. In the last game, we saw Vogel not bring Russ back in until the Lakers had a comfortable lead late in the fourth. The Lakers need more from Westbrook (just 1 defensive board in a game we gave up 14 offensive boards). Fix what you can fix.

Big roadtrip coming. Hopefully, AD gets back soon.


LeBron -- -- He had 18 points on 7-9 shooting in the first half. A little bit of everything. Some pushouts of rebounds to go coast to coast like a freight train for scores. He’d sink a pull-up three and a step-back three against a big. He punctuated the half by finishing a backdoor lob dunk over his head. The second half, he had a stretch of 2 of 9 shooting. He had the team-low -20, but I think a lot of that was just being on the floor with Russ quite a bit. If you notice, we’ve been going with some no Russ, no LeBron bench lineups the past couple. Those have actually worked out decently as we rely more THT, Reaves, Monk and Johnson. The Stats: He scored 30 points on 11-22 shooting (3-7 from three, 5-7 from the line) to go with 12 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers and 1 foul in 37 minutes. He was a -20.

Westbrook -- -- I remember being on the other end of Westbrook hitting threes early in a game. Usually, you didn’t mind it because he’d chuck up a bunch more and miss them. He sank his first three threes and didn’t make anything else in the half, going 3-10 for 9 points. Again, Vogel gave him some extended rest in the half, playing him just 15 minutes (he had the team low -4). Russ didn’t bring anything in that second half. This game, he was just not hitting anything outside of those threes. I think his other make was probably his most difficult layup finish attempt. We lost control of the game when Russ returned for the fourth. He instantly had a miss on one end, then gave up an easy layup on the other. Vogel played him just 12 minutes in the second half. He was a -14 in those 12 minutes. Loved seeing him sit Westbrook for the close of this game (did not love him keeping Melo out there). But that represents an interesting shift. He’s really tried to dodge Westbrook in the fourth quarter in these past two. “Playing the guys that I thought were going to win the game,” Vogel said of not playing Russ. Ouch. The Stats: He scored 14 points on 5-17 shooting (4-6 from three) to go with 2 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 4 fouls in 27 minutes. He was a -18.

Howard -- -- With his 7th rebound tonight he moved into a tie for 10th all time in rebounding, right behind KG. The Lakers went big (and old) to start the game. Good job by Dwight keeping offensive boards alive. He had 4 boards in his first 7 minutes and was the only starter with a positive in the +/- in the first half. When he was out of the game, we did have issues on the defensive glass at times early on. The second half was not as successful. He wasn’t as sharp on his switches. The difference between the last one and this one is that Sabonis is a bigger threat offensive than Gobert and you have to play him differently. Thus, using Dwight a bit more. The problems, however, that we’ve seen with our drop coverage and rotations popped their heads right back up. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 1-1 shooting (3-4 from the line) to go with 7 boards (4 offensive), 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 13 minutes. He was a -3.

Bradley -- -- He’d sank a corner three in the first half. In the second half, he had a cut off a Stanley Johnson drive and he’d score a layup. Again, good cutting by Bradley. But the team had several players with moments like that cutting. Nice to see. Vogel was annoyed with the lack of rebounding by the guards. Between Bradley and Russ, they had just 1 defensive board. “We’re not committed to hitting people,” he said. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-6 shooting (1-3 from three, 0-1 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 24 minutes. He was a -7.

Ariza -- -- I’m not really sure the purpose when we’ve got Johnson now. I figure maybe it’s still kind of a preseason for Ariza, just getting him some reps and his legs. The size at the SF is helpful, but not enough positive from Ariza. He did have a nice block, but very little else. Couldn’t hit a shot. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-4 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover and no fouls in 15 minutes. He was a -6.

Monk -- -- Some of our more exciting plays involved Monk tonight. He teamed up with LeBron for a backdoor lob. Monk put the ball in the perfect spot and LeBron made the reverse jam look easy late in the first half. In the second half, it was Monk with a backdoor cut and THT found him off a drive for the lob finish. We need to make sure we get Monk more than one three attempt in a game. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 4-6 shooting (1-1 from three, 1-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 2 assists and 1 foul in 28 minutes. He was a -3.

Anthony -- -- Back in the mix after missing the last few games with the injury. My worry was exactly this. In the last game, we closed strong. We didn’t have the option of putting Melo on the floor. We sat Westbrook for a long stretch and those guys got after that. You’re often only as good as your weakest link on D and man, was Melo the weak link to close. He got burned for a couple of open threes. And they locked in on him off screens at times. I don’t even know what he was thinking defending one of the threes. The ball left and he turnaround maybe expecting to scram someone out a mismatch? But no one was thinking the same thing and they just fired the ball back to Melo’s man for the open three. Killer. Look, you don’t close with Melo. You don’t do it. If you are an opponent, that’s who you are going to attack. You bring Melo in for those second unit post ups and some floor spacing. You don’t bring him in to close. The Stats: He scored 14 points on 6-12 shooting (0-5 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 7 boards (3 offensive), 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 turnover and 4 fouls in 30 minutes. He was a +3.

Horton-Tucker -- -- Great game offensively. The shot was falling for him early. He sank a tough fade to beat the shotclock on his first attempt. He’d swish a wing three on a catch-and-shoot. He’d swish a fade across the lane after coming off a screen. Then, he’d nail a step-back iso corner three. He had 10 points on 4-5 shooting in the first half. All of that perimeter action looking strong. When he’s got that going, that opens up some of the drives for him. Loved some of the passing by him. He attacked and hit Monk on a lob. He got a kickout from Reaves but fired it right back to him for a score. I think he also hit LeBron on one of those lobs, as well. Great job all around on the offensive end and he led the team with a +12. Defensively, he was in on a play in the fourth where he got stuck on a screen and didn’t really fight to get around it. The ball then went to his man and it led to an open three. Vogel called a timeout right than and sat him. THT kind of looked tired on that play and maybe he wanted to rest him. Bu that was when we brought Russ in off that and the Pacers got on a run over the next minute. Vogel would bring him back in, but one small play kind of turned into a domino right there. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 9-14 shooting (2-5 from three) to go with 2 boards, 7 assists, 2 blocks, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 25 minutes. He was a +12.

Reaves -- -- As mentioned, he’s pretty much elite at drawing charges. He got a couple in the first half and another shortly after entering in the third quarter (this was on a perimeter screen exchange situation). So I think three charges drawn in this one. Elite. One was LeVert’s third foul of the first half. Despite not scoring on 4 attempts, he still led the team with the +11 in the first half. Not as successful in the second half, but he was one of those guys that Vogel brought back in when he sat Russ. Not always strong from Reaves tonight. He missed all his threes and he threw a pass into the backcourt that the Pacers turned into an And-1. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 1-5 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 4 boards, 2 assists, 2 turnovers and 1 foul in 25 minutes. He was a +5.

Johnson -- -- So, 16 minutes. Ariza had 15. Melo had 30. Down the stretch, we went with Melo over Stanley. That was a big mistake. I know we wanted size out there and some of the guards weren’t rebounding well, but we have a better option right now versus some of these older guys. We got lit for 35 points in that fourth. Just frustrating. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 1-3 shooting (0-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 2 assists and 2 foul in 16 minutes. He was a +2.

Vogel -- -- Key Moment: He didn’t do himself any favors in this game. In the fourth when he brought Russ back in after a timeout, a minute later the Pacers had their biggest lead. Vogel then made the right decision to sit Russ, who was playing awful. But he kept Melo on the floor. This is exactly what we don’t want to see down the stretch and the Pacers went after it. Melo got abused on D for multiple buckets and that was that.

Key Substitution: See above.

Key Stats: The Pacers road record. The Pacers were 3-17 on the road coming into this one. Last road win for the Pacers was apparently before Thanksgiving. Your Welcome.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:57 pm    Post subject:

First....
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Thank you for the write-up DB.

Hard to really put into words how this went down in the 4th. When the Pacers started rolling I kept looking to see if Vog would do something to stop the bleeding and nothing changed except...to bring in Melo. I was stunned.

I dunno what to make of it. A number of posters are theorizing that Vog is just fed up and was spiting the FO office here (with benching Russ, then going all in on small ball in a situation that made no sense to do so) - DB, what did you make of it all?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:12 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Seemed like tonight was the first time Lebron and Russ ever shared the floor. Those minutes were trash
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:47 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers looked sluggish starting late in the second quarter, and after that they were playing at half-speed and half-intensity, like they thought they only needed to show up in order to win.

We have some guys, like Melo and Ariza, who are either washed up or don't play with hunger, desire or intensity.

On the bright side, Reaves, THT, Stanley Johnson, Dwight and Monk play with good energy, intensity and effort.

As bad as Russ is playing (and he's playing badly), the old guys on this roster, especially in the frontcourt, are sinking this team.

I have a feeling things are about to get even worse with this team.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 am    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
Thank you for the write-up DB.

Hard to really put into words how this went down in the 4th. When the Pacers started rolling I kept looking to see if Vog would do something to stop the bleeding and nothing changed except...to bring in Melo. I was stunned.

I dunno what to make of it. A number of posters are theorizing that Vog is just fed up and was spiting the FO office here (with benching Russ, then going all in on small ball in a situation that made no sense to do so) - DB, what did you make of it all?


I just think Vogel made some bad choices tonight. Sitting Russ was not one of them. It was a half-baked small ball down the stretch. What you want is guys who can switch and defend multiple positions. Melo is not one of those. So you end up with a half-assed small ball. A couple really bad lineups out there tonight.

If he had a full roster, that’s AD out there instead of Melo….as well as other stretches… and we aren’t hearing any of this. It is what it is at this point. Just need to find ways to scratch out a win here and there until he returns.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:48 am    Post subject:

Lebron thought that the Lakers played well in the fourth quarter

Maybe this should be the top concern

Since Lebron is the leader of this team, is he satisfied with the efforts and production of the veterans that he brought in?

Lebron is satisfied with Westbrook’s production?

If Lebron is the last line of defense and calling out the coverages, it appears that he is satisfied with what he sees
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:40 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
DrDent wrote:
Hard to really put into words how this went down in the 4th. When the Pacers started rolling I kept looking to see if Vog would do something to stop the bleeding and nothing changed except...to bring in Melo. I was stunned.

I dunno what to make of it. A number of posters are theorizing that Vog is just fed up and was spiting the FO office here (with benching Russ, then going all in on small ball in a situation that made no sense to do so) - DB, what did you make of it all?
I just think Vogel made some bad choices tonight. Sitting Russ was not one of them. It was a half-baked small ball down the stretch. What you want is guys who can switch and defend multiple positions. Melo is not one of those. So you end up with a half-assed small ball. A couple really bad lineups out there tonight.

If he had a full roster, that’s AD out there instead of Melo….as well as other stretches… and we aren’t hearing any of this. It is what it is at this point. Just need to find ways to scratch out a win here and there until he returns.
Hopefully Vogel will go to this closing lineup
Reeves, Johnson, THT, Monk and LBJ

Vogel was hoping that Melo's offensive production will outweigh his defense liabilities
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:24 am    Post subject:

ORtg: 24th of 30
DRtg: 18th of 30
SOS: 26th of 30
538 RAPTOR odds of making the playoffs: 29%

And now come all of the road games. It is "now or never" time. Thankfully, we get to start with Orlando. Still, who would have thought that a mid-January game against the Magic would qualify for "must win" status?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:04 am    Post subject:

So who's getting the ax, Vogel or Westbrook
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:25 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
So who's getting the ax, Vogel or Westbrook

who can use russ? Clippers? most historically bad franchises arent terrible. Find a team that is vying for relevancy and that's probably a trade partner.

Crazy to fire frank unless better is knocking on the door. Quinn Snyder would be nice. Who else? Gentry? horrible. Any van gundy? Horrible? mark jaxson? Really? We know spolestra isn't going anywhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:42 am    Post subject:

Yeah the Melo minutes and decision really was a one that backfired. Melo is good for 10-15 minutes on a good team. Any team playing him or relying him on more than that, is going to get what we did last night. The 4 point play he gave up? That's just an example of who we are with Melo/WB types. He missed the pass from Reaves (or bad pass from Reaves) and he doesn't even try to go back, realizes his opponent will get the ball first, makes a weak attemp to stop the layup. foul and basket, then gets upset and gets a T.

Like come on you're trying to be a championship role player here. Would Kuz have done this? Nah. This is the issue with our team struggling to put teams away. We simply don't have 2-way guys. And WB's game hasn't been worth the 43M/superstar investment we made in him.

As DB said, AD will solve some issues, but AD won't solve it all. All he'll do is take us from .500 team to maybe a .600 team. With the tougher schedule, if we get a healthy AD upon his return to season's end, we may be able to win 43 games. If not, we're looking at 38-41 and maybe 2 play ins.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:14 am    Post subject:

It's poor coaching....I was watching the game with my son's and time after time, the Pacers were going directly at Melo. He is historically a horrible, lazy defender. All he does is foul. Now that he's older, he was useless out there down the stretch.

I don't understand why you don't go with Johnson and Dwight when you need defense and rebounding at the end there. It's beyond perplexing.

Johnson would have been able to focus on staying with LaVert, while Dwight could handle Sabonis in the middle, especially with rebounding.

WHY COULD'NT VOGEL DO THIS????
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:38 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB.

This is the definition of a bad loss.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:34 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yeah the Melo minutes and decision really was a one that backfired. Melo is good for 10-15 minutes on a good team. Any team playing him or relying him on more than that, is going to get what we did last night. The 4 point play he gave up? That's just an example of who we are with Melo/WB types. He missed the pass from Reaves (or bad pass from Reaves) and he doesn't even try to go back, realizes his opponent will get the ball first, makes a weak attemp to stop the layup. foul and basket, then gets upset and gets a T.

Like come on you're trying to be a championship role player here. Would Kuz have done this? Nah. This is the issue with our team struggling to put teams away. We simply don't have 2-way guys. And WB's game hasn't been worth the 43M/superstar investment we made in him.

As DB said, AD will solve some issues, but AD won't solve it all. All he'll do is take us from .500 team to maybe a .600 team. With the tougher schedule, if we get a healthy AD upon his return to season's end, we may be able to win 43 games. If not, we're looking at 38-41 and maybe 2 play ins.
Melo missing key shots, making stupid defensive fouls (breakaway where he should have conceded the basket) and rotating off the hot shooter to double anybody else are unacceptable - yet Lebron seems ok with that because these issues keep repeating

If Lebron is "satisfied" (as he stated in his postgame interview) - then Vogel will have to make the hard decisions over (unfortunately) over LBJ.

Westbrook "expects" to be in everytime it is crunch time. Question: Does he think that he actually DESERVES to be at crunch time

Appears that the FO and Coaching Staff have long been in conversation on how to "coach" Westbrook.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:22 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:

Melo missing key shots, making stupid defensive fouls (breakaway where he should have conceded the basket) and rotating off the hot shooter to double anybody else are unacceptable - yet Lebron seems ok with that because these issues keep repeating

If Lebron is "satisfied" (as he stated in his postgame interview) - then Vogel will have to make the hard decisions over (unfortunately) over LBJ.

Westbrook "expects" to be in everytime it is crunch time. Question: Does he think that he actually DESERVES to be at crunch time

Appears that the FO and Coaching Staff have long been in conversation on how to "coach" Westbrook.


I wouldn't take what LeBron said in the post game presser as gospel. I think he was just not going to throw gas on the situation.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:43 am    Post subject:

Yeah it feels like we're living and dying by the 3 down the stretch instead of (mostly) living by our D.

No more closing tight games while praying that Melo gets hot from 3 when we know he'll likely give it back on the other end. I can somewhat understand the rationale of plugging him late in a game in to chip away at a big lead.

Depending on the matchup, the only closers should be Dwight, Johnson, Ariza, Reaves, THT, Monk, and AB. Yes they're all streaky shooters but you know you'll get effort and solid D from all of them. Russ should only be eligible if he limits his boneheadedness and lackadaisical effort in earlier parts of the game. I'm glad the FO gave their blessing and Vogel has the guts. You figure this came up during their last meeting.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:37 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:

Melo missing key shots, making stupid defensive fouls (breakaway where he should have conceded the basket) and rotating off the hot shooter to double anybody else are unacceptable - yet Lebron seems ok with that because these issues keep repeating

If Lebron is "satisfied" (as he stated in his postgame interview) - then Vogel will have to make the hard decisions over (unfortunately) over LBJ.

Westbrook "expects" to be in everytime it is crunch time. Question: Does he think that he actually DESERVES to be at crunch time

Appears that the FO and Coaching Staff have long been in conversation on how to "coach" Westbrook.
I wouldn't take what LeBron said in the post game presser as gospel. I think he was just not going to throw gas on the situation.
Agree

Acknowledging that Lebron is very careful in the selection of his words, playing short of his expectations might be a better choice of words

Seeing Westbrook and Melo continuously making the same defensive mistakes through much of the season without anybody (translation: LBJ) keeping them accountable, could one see this as Lebron’s acceptance of this level of play

It is one thing to get beaten by a much better offensive player, it is another thing to have mental lapses or blatant basketball 101 defensive mistake seen in the wrong rotations, etc

Since yesterday was the 2nd anniversary of Kobe’s passing, let’s revive the Black Mamba Mentality!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:41 pm    Post subject:

At the end of the game they looked slow and old.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:53 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
At the end of the game they looked slow and old.

and that's with russ on the bench.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:31 am    Post subject:

The “saving grace” or “silver lining” is that an even more depleted Pacer team beat the Dubs!
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