Just keep the core that is proven. AD + Bron + quality defensive role players = contender = has won a title when AD is healthy.
Keep the role guys who you think can be defensive quality role players, and move the rest.
For example - Reaves and Monk look like guys that could become Caruso/KCP types for a long time. Pretty young. Worth the investment IMO.
THT, on the other hand, not sure. Maybe. Can not see him as a role player, but he has 3rd option "potential".
So if a team values THT, maybe you move him and Westbrook. You have to attach something to WB to make the contract move. I worry teams will value Reaves/Monk, if we want to move WB. Advanced stats love Reaves/Monk, hate THT.
Just keep the core that is proven. AD + Bron + quality defensive role players = contender = has won a title when AD is healthy.
Keep the role guys who you think can be defensive quality role players, and move the rest.
For example - Reaves and Monk look like guys that could become Caruso/KCP types for a long time. Pretty young. Worth the investment IMO.
THT, on the other hand, not sure. Maybe. Can not see him as a role player, but he has 3rd option "potential".
So if a team values THT, maybe you move him and Westbrook. You have to attach something to WB to make the contract move. I worry teams will value Reaves/Monk, if we want to move WB. Advanced stats love Reaves/Monk, hate THT.
THT would be a good fit if we had Hield instead of Russ.
No, we don't blow anything up. Rob has "blown up" this roster every season since our championship run, and it shows.
What the Lakers need to do is to get the players they have now and force them to respect the game of basketball.
Russell Westbrook CAN NOT miss multiple layups during a single game, nor can he commit multiple turnovers. That is fixable. AD must figure out a way to stay healthy, and when he is healthy, he needs to play with absolute determination each and every play. Right before he got hurt during the Twolves game, Karl Anthony Towns outplayed him in every facet of the game. That simply cannot happen.
Our bigmen need to play big. DH and DJ have been in the league long enough to know what their roles are, and what is required of them.
Our guards must no only shoot better, but defend the outside shot better. Even if their shot isn't falling, there is no excuse for the Lakers to be giving up so many 3 point shots.
This current Lakers team CAN be a finals contending team if the individual players yank their heads out of their asses and start performing to the standards expected of them.
Your plan sounds awesome. But how do you get them all to just “work harder, play better” in actual games instead of the lip service they give in interviews?
Those vets know what they need to do, can they really still do it consistently? There have been moments the players have played exactly as you describe.
Usually for a quarter or so, then the physical and mental lapses return. Just not in their natures to sustain it. For many of our future HoFers, they have always had someone else to do the dirty work. Giving them the freedom to be who they are. You are asking them to consistently play roles they are not used to playing.
I too, hope they can get their heads out of their ***** and find some winning ways. Just not certain the complete healthy roster is even able to accomplish it. We are talking bad habits they have spent a career developing. In all honesty they didn’t have the humility or self awareness to even work on the issues in pre-season. Now they are supposed to fix it mid season?
I think if we believe what lebron has been conveying, this team of veterans will kick it up come post season. I believe that if lebron and AD are playing at a higher level, then RW will too. I fully believe that this team is much better than they are playing. If you remember, when both AD and lebron were playing, Westbrook was actually playing pretty good , at least for a string of games. The problem came when Anthony Davis went out and Westbrook felt he must compensate for him, that is when we get the pressing, out of control Westbrook. However, if everything is in place for this laker's team, then Westbrook usually plays better. If we could just put together a full month of having all the regular players playing and gelling with each other, I actually still think that we can be a threat in the playoffs. Are we going to win it all, not likely. But I think we can be a true threat and play a good spoiler role.
Appreciate the optimism and in all honesty do not entirely disagree with you.
A veteran team with all this experience and firepower may be able to string together enough professionalism, intensity and efficiency to be a “ good spoiler” as a you suggest. Is that really enough?
Lakers have taken an all-in on roster and payroll. Spoiler was not the goal.
I will continue to hope they find that elusive chemistry and health so talked about. And they flip the switch or whatever optimistic narrative expressed by many around here. Would love to see them compete unlike they have to this point.
This team just does not compete and don't respect possessions. They are just there to finish the game and that's all. No spirit, effort, desire or any game plan.
FIRST offensive play of yesterday’s game was DHOs to LBJ high post at 6 seconds in shot clock which resulted in an LBJ fade away turn around jumper at 1.9 seconds (made) but that is garbage offense..
I think if we believe what lebron has been conveying, this team of veterans will kick it up come post season. I believe that if lebron and AD are playing at a higher level, then RW will too.
I question whether Lebron, AD and WB can play effectively together. But it's a sure thing that unless Lebron and AD are playing at a very high level, this team doesn't have a chance.
Sad to say it, but 2020 was motivated by the loss of Kobe, and this team of vets just doesn’t have the “eye of the tiger”. Really hoped Melo and Russ could finally get a ring, but they don’t have what it takes to sacrifice to earn it. Dwight finally won because he humbled himself and gave in to the team, willing to do anything asked of him. Russ hasn’t had that conversation with Vogel and I doubt he ever will. To him the stats tell the story, not the record. He’s the same player we cruised through in the Playoff bubble.
Here is the problem…. WB has zero trade value, and to move him, even if we included a first round pick, we won’t get any value in return, period.
Personally, I would just ride it out this season and next and hope for the best…. At that point WB and LBJ will be free agents and off the books. AD and THT will be the only players under contract at that point, unless we sign someone to more than a 1 year deal this upcoming offseason…. I would trade THT, but again, I don’t see us getting anything of value in return. I would do the Jermi Grant deal, especially because his contract is up at the same time as WB and LBJ, but again that happening is unlikely….
With AD, I would wait until the end of this next offseason to see exactly who will be free agents the following summer, namely Bradley Beal. If he opts into his option this summer to become a free agent the following summer (unlikely), I would hold onto AD to try and pair them together at that point. If Beal opts out this summer (likely), I would probably try to trade AD before WB and LBJ become free agents to collect as many assets as possible (draft picks and/or young players on rookie contracts.
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:41 am Post subject: Re: MOST EMBARRASSING LAKERS TEAM - BLOW IT UP
Nash Vegas wrote:
Blow this (bleep) up.
A team with 3 current All-Stars, 6 future HOF’ers, but can’t beat depleted teams, can’t even beat lottery teams and if they do, it usually takes them overtime. Losses are by 20+ points.
Blow this (bleep) up. They’re just embarrassing the Lakers name.
_________________ A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season.
Before blowing it up I’d like to see the coaching staff kicked to the curb first….seriously a line up with Russ, IT, and Rondo should literally never happen, but it did. Our staff was a good fit when we had more defensive focused players, we now have more offensive minded players….and while it is true the FO has to own that, the coaching staff has to own the fact that they’ve done an amazingly poor job of adapting their approach to personnel they do have…with their maddening rotations being a prime example of this failure ….
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: Re: MOST EMBARRASSING LAKERS TEAM - BLOW IT UP
Nash Vegas wrote:
Blow this (bleep) up.
A team with 3 current All-Stars, 6 future HOF’ers, but can’t beat depleted teams, can’t even beat lottery teams and if they do, it usually takes them overtime. Losses are by 20+ points.
Blow this (bleep) up. They’re just embarrassing the Lakers name.
We have two all stars and two HOF'ers in their prime.
You can't change 12 players every offseason and expect any kind of continuity or rhythm
To be fair, this only was this off season. 2 years ago was due to the AD trade (a lot of guys went out) but the trade was solid, and a big time star was brought in for Bron to try and win a title with. The guys that continued on were McGee, Kuzma, KCP, Rondo and Caruso. When the season played out, those were 5 of our top 9 players. The "big" changes were AD, Green, Bradley, Dwight. So 4 new guys, and with Bron returning 6 guys from previous season. Last year, it was Danny Green, Rondo, McGee, Dwight out. But you saw KCP, Caruso, Kuzma, Kieff, THT, Dudley, Quinn Cook all come back to start the seson. New guys were Gasol, Trez, Dennis, Wes Matthews.
This past offseasn was a little ridiculous with the change. Only Bron, AD, THT were back, New players: DeAndre, Dwight, Melo, Ariza, Bazemore, Monk, Westbrook, Nunn, then added even more with Bradley, Reaves, Rondo etc. Complete overhaul.
And I hope that Pelinka sees the need for some athletic role players around AD/Bron. So he allows Monk, Reaves, THT, maybe Nunn to all develop into niche roles this season, bringing them back next year.
We also need to look for a project big guy, and a project defensive wing. Maybe Stanley can work out, not sure about his shot. He has defensive clay. The big guy needs to be able to rim run, finish above the rim and block shots. Dwight does fine on defense, but his offense is pretty bad. He's not able to finish a large majority of plays. We should use the rest of this season to develop some quality role players who can move into roles for this season and next. If AD/Bron peak and are healthy late in the season, you may get on a run, make the playoffs and be a big threat in the playoffs. If they don't (AD mainly) get healthy/peak, it is what it is, but at least you developed Nunn, Monk, THT, Reaves (And maybe a project big/wing) for next season. You didn't waste the season. That's the #1 thing I would do in this mess. Build the right supporting cast around AD/Bron longterm. Athletic wings, athletic active guards, and try to find a young big man that can do similar to what we got from Damian Jones last year.
You can't change 12 players every offseason and expect any kind of continuity or rhythm
To be fair, this only was this off season. 2 years ago was due to the AD trade (a lot of guys went out) but the trade was solid, and a big time star was brought in for Bron to try and win a title with. The guys that continued on were McGee, Kuzma, KCP, Rondo and Caruso. When the season played out, those were 5 of our top 9 players. The "big" changes were AD, Green, Bradley, Dwight. So 4 new guys, and with Bron returning 6 guys from previous season. Last year, it was Danny Green, Rondo, McGee, Dwight out. But you saw KCP, Caruso, Kuzma, Kieff, THT, Dudley, Quinn Cook all come back to start the seson. New guys were Gasol, Trez, Dennis, Wes Matthews.
This past offseasn was a little ridiculous with the change. Only Bron, AD, THT were back, New players: DeAndre, Dwight, Melo, Ariza, Bazemore, Monk, Westbrook, Nunn, then added even more with Bradley, Reaves, Rondo etc. Complete overhaul.
And I hope that Pelinka sees the need for some athletic role players around AD/Bron. So he allows Monk, Reaves, THT, maybe Nunn to all develop into niche roles this season, bringing them back next year.
We also need to look for a project big guy, and a project defensive wing. Maybe Stanley can work out, not sure about his shot. He has defensive clay. The big guy needs to be able to rim run, finish above the rim and block shots. Dwight does fine on defense, but his offense is pretty bad. He's not able to finish a large majority of plays. We should use the rest of this season to develop some quality role players who can move into roles for this season and next. If AD/Bron peak and are healthy late in the season, you may get on a run, make the playoffs and be a big threat in the playoffs. If they don't (AD mainly) get healthy/peak, it is what it is, but at least you developed Nunn, Monk, THT, Reaves (And maybe a project big/wing) for next season. You didn't waste the season. That's the #1 thing I would do in this mess. Build the right supporting cast around AD/Bron longterm. Athletic wings, athletic active guards, and try to find a young big man that can do similar to what we got from Damian Jones last year.
Yeah, I was referring to this offseason but the phrase came out weird.
Just keep the core that is proven. AD + Bron + quality defensive role players = contender = has won a title when AD is healthy.
Keep the role guys who you think can be defensive quality role players, and move the rest.
For example - Reaves and Monk look like guys that could become Caruso/KCP types for a long time. Pretty young. Worth the investment IMO.
THT, on the other hand, not sure. Maybe. Can not see him as a role player, but he has 3rd option "potential".
So if a team values THT, maybe you move him and Westbrook. You have to attach something to WB to make the contract move. I worry teams will value Reaves/Monk, if we want to move WB. Advanced stats love Reaves/Monk, hate THT.
THT would be a good fit if we had Hield instead of Russ.
Russ and THT is just horrible
It's the combination of way too many ballhandlers. TO/error prone team. THT, Westbrook, Bron, AD too. All 4 guys want to create. Not the balance you had with AD/Bron + Green/KCP. Green/KCP were not creators, they were not really ballhandlers, they were spot up shooters who could do a little slashing. High motor defenders.
So I think the team could live with THT as a 3rd guy, and live with his errors. But the other 2 guys need to be players who will catch and shoot, defend very well, and play at a high energy level, with little errors. So for example, AD/Bron/Reaves/Monk/THT could maybe work. Or a more veteran THT/Bradley/Ariza/Bron/AD lineup.
The absolute best thing this team could do is cut down on all the errors on offense, make it simple and get players in that want to be role players. I don't know how long Rob wants this mess to continue, but it will until he makes those changes.
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: Re: MOST EMBARRASSING LAKERS TEAM - BLOW IT UP
PenG_ wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Blow this (bleep) up.
A team with 3 current All-Stars, 6 future HOF’ers, but can’t beat depleted teams, can’t even beat lottery teams and if they do, it usually takes them overtime. Losses are by 20+ points.
Blow this (bleep) up. They’re just embarrassing the Lakers name.
We have two all stars and two HOF'ers in their prime.
None of our Hall of famers are really in their prime, though LeBron passed his prime is still better than almost anyone in the league.
Your main point is right. Having a lot of guys who are wrapping up Hall of Fame careers isn't necessarily a positive. It would be much better to have younger guys who are building Hall of Fame careers or just building good careers.
This was a team constructed based on guys resumes of past accomplishments, rather than what they can do today as a unit
This is on Rob. We had a good core to build from and he turned the whole team over, we didn’t need an overhaul - with health we prob make the finals last year and prob win.
Even worse he lets young core guys like Caruso walk and dumped all our picks, so we don’t have the players or the assets to make deals.
Gotta hit rock bottom first for anything to change.
Good news is,
Watching Westbrook play on a nightly basis is just about rock bottom. _________________ "I bought the Lakers so I could beat the Celtics" - Dr. Jerry Buss
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