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windycitycane
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Joined: 31 Oct 2012
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 Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Can someone provide hope for the future? |
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This has been, thus far, one of the worst years since 2013 for Laker basketball.
No one is happy, we blew up a championship team who won only 14 months ago.
What do you think next year and beyond looks like? Who is here, who is gone, what do our draft picks look like?
Is there hope we aren’t insignificant for years to come?
Go Lakers!
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: |
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The hope is that Pelinka can lure another major free agent after Lebron and Westbrook are off the books. There are always longshot possibilities involving trades and the like, but realistically, we'll be chasing free agents.
But don't write this season off just yet.
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Everyone knew the window would be short with Lebron. It's still a miracle they got one ring out of it. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: |
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hate to paint this grooming picture but there's no bright future in sight for the following reasons:
1. current CBA is making young superstars stay with their current teams
2. Laker brand and city of LA is losing their halo, it's not like before when free agents want to push their way to Lakers
3. frugal ownership, they will spend $$$ on over the hill big names, but always being cheap on front office, coaching and medical staff hirings
4. the culture of Lakers. since the Kobe days, it's always being one alpha and rest of the team standing pat. this is not because of one particular coach. we've seen it through several head coaches since the 2010 title team. it's always too much star centric. remember i wrote star, not stars, it's always being one star and rest just ball watching. this is a Laker culture thing more than roster issues. |
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iimarshon
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: |
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We're the Lakers.
We won a championship 14 months ago.
We have excellent scouting -- and we found a new Caruso in Austin Reaves.
Westbrook expires after next season.
We have AD locked up.
We have THT who is an appreciating asset IMO.
Nunn, if healthy, on the books for 5m next year is good value.
We will have our MLE this offseason.
We will get some buy out guys.
We're only a few games out of the 4 seed even while sucking.
We have a better record than the Celtics.
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iimarshon
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | hate to paint this grooming picture but there's no bright future in sight for the following reasons:
1. current CBA is making young superstars stay with their current teams
2. Laker brand and city of LA is losing their halo, it's not like before when free agents want to push their way to Lakers
3. frugal ownership, they will spend $$$ on over the hill big names, but always being cheap on front office, coaching and medical staff hirings
4. the culture of Lakers. since the Kobe days, it's always being one alpha and rest of the team standing pat. this is not because of one particular coach. we've seen it through several head coaches since the 2010 title team. it's always too much star centric. remember i wrote star, not stars, it's always being one star and rest just ball watching. this is a Laker culture thing more than roster issues. |
Youre citing bad culture? WE WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP 14 MONTHS AGO haha damn some of y'all need to go take a walk outside, its all good youngins!
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iimarshon
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: |
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This season is all about being healthy come playoffs. We wont win it all but lets see what we can do.
What im curious about is Summer 2023.
When Bron, THT -- everyone but AD is off the books -- who do we target?
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: |
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As stated above... we've been incredibly unhealthy which has led in big part to our lack of chemistry/cohesion yet we're only a game or 2 out of the 4th seed and despite playing .500 ball, we are improving in a lot of key areas.
LeBron has missed over 1/3 of our games
Nunn hasn't played at all - IMO this is a huge loss
Ariza is just starting to pay and while he's 36, he does fill the role of the archetypical big 3&D wing we need
That's about all the good news I can come up with. Oh and that we've still got a long way to go. I guess it'd be best to be playing our worst ball now instead of in April/May. |
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kfkilla
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 4295
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes I think I think what if we just held on to everyone instead of going for AD? One thing is for certain we would not have got the one ring out of it. However would we be in set for the next 5-6 years of competing?
Zo, AC, BI, JR, BRON, KUZ
Sound really really good today. Ya hind sight I know.
Sorry I know this is a hope thread. Just got caught up. One thing that has happened with underperforming massive contracts that I’ve noticed is a buy out. Maybe at the end of the year we can work out a buy out with Westbrook? That an Dang contract coming off the books. That’s all I got! |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | Sometimes I think I think what if we just held on to everyone instead of going for AD? One thing is for certain we would not have got the one ring out of it. However would we be in set for the next 5-6 years of competing?
Zo, AC, BI, JR, BRON, KUZ
Sound really really good today. Ya hind sight I know.
Sorry I know this is a hope thread. Just got caught up. One thing that has happened with underperforming massive contracts that I’ve noticed is a buy out. Maybe at the end of the year we can work out a buy out with Westbrook? That an Dang contract coming off the books. That’s all I got! |
How is that team any good? And how can we afford them? |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Here is the hope
We only need to fulfill one FRP obligation after next year, so if Westbrook and bron is off the books, rebuild starts with AD soon. If lebron wants another year, then so be it. We will be fine |
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SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | As stated above... we've been incredibly unhealthy which has led in big part to our lack of chemistry/cohesion yet we're only a game or 2 out of the 4th seed and despite playing .500 ball, we are improving in a lot of key areas.
LeBron has missed over 1/3 of our games
Nunn hasn't played at all - IMO this is a huge loss
Ariza is just starting to pay and while he's 36, he does fill the role of the archetypical big 3&D wing we need
That's about all the good news I can come up with. Oh and that we've still got a long way to go. I guess it'd be best to be playing our worst ball now instead of in April/May. |
i know injuries occur randomly, but why only the Lakers are been hit by these many injuries year after year, and seemingly in 2 area of the body specifically: knee and abdominal? it goes back to my post that the ownership is being cheap on medical/training staff. |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10602
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: |
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honestly, I can't. I need some hope myself. when at any time any of you superstars can miss a month or two with injury and half your team can miss 4 games just as they're starting to build momentum, I'm not sure what there is to look forward to as a fan. nowadays I just watch to see how good Lebron is at this age and to not take him for granted.
frankly I'm not sure there's a lot to get excited for in the NBA right now if you're not a Suns or Dubs fan |
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oaktown_dimond
Star Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: |
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thank you, i was just going to reply with the same response (and i'm doing it anyway).
even if you think randle, BI, Zo, Kuz, AC, Zu blah blah blah were this amazing combination, there is ZERO CHANCE IN HELL we could afford to resign them all. and no, not because jeanie is cheap, because of the CBA and salary cap.
hell, we probably couldn't afford to keep them all WITHOUT BRON'S CONTRACT!
| mad55557777 wrote: | | kfkilla wrote: | Sometimes I think I think what if we just held on to everyone instead of going for AD? One thing is for certain we would not have got the one ring out of it. However would we be in set for the next 5-6 years of competing?
Zo, AC, BI, JR, BRON, KUZ
Sound really really good today. Ya hind sight I know.
Sorry I know this is a hope thread. Just got caught up. One thing that has happened with underperforming massive contracts that I’ve noticed is a buy out. Maybe at the end of the year we can work out a buy out with Westbrook? That an Dang contract coming off the books. That’s all I got! |
How is that team any good? And how can we afford them? |
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AD23
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | Sometimes I think I think what if we just held on to everyone instead of going for AD? One thing is for certain we would not have got the one ring out of it. However would we be in set for the next 5-6 years of competing?
Zo, AC, BI, JR, BRON, KUZ
Sound really really good today. Ya hind sight I know.
Sorry I know this is a hope thread. Just got caught up. One thing that has happened with underperforming massive contracts that I’ve noticed is a buy out. Maybe at the end of the year we can work out a buy out with Westbrook? That an Dang contract coming off the books. That’s all I got! |
Yeah and no chip lol ... u forgot DLo and Clarkson and Hart and Nance Jr |
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Batguano
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | hate to paint this grooming picture but there's no bright future in sight for the following reasons:
1. current CBA is making young superstars stay with their current teams
2. Laker brand and city of LA is losing their halo, it's not like before when free agents want to push their way to Lakers
3. frugal ownership, they will spend $$$ on over the hill big names, but always being cheap on front office, coaching and medical staff hirings
4. the culture of Lakers. since the Kobe days, it's always being one alpha and rest of the team standing pat. this is not because of one particular coach. we've seen it through several head coaches since the 2010 title team. it's always too much star centric. remember i wrote star, not stars, it's always being one star and rest just ball watching. this is a Laker culture thing more than roster issues. |
1) Last ten years alone we've seen LeBron (THREE TIMES), Durant (TWICE), Kawhi (TWICE), Harden (TWICE), Paul George (TWICE), Kyrie (TWICE), CP3 (FOUR TIMES), AD, Westbrook (3 times), Dwight Howard (8 TIMES!!!), Pau Gasol (4 times), Lamarcus Aldridge (2 times), Kevin Love, Demar DeRozan (2 times), Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, etc. etc. etc. move from their original teams. Everybody keeps pushing this narrative that the CBA is somehow meant to keep star players from leaving in free agency, but yet there's still been a lot of All-star movement the last decade (probably more than EVER). They either leave in free agency or they get their bag and push their way out of an unfavorable situation.
2) Free Agents NEVER wanted to push their way to LA as much as the faux narrative that keeps being perpetuated by doom-n-gloomers. With the exception of Shaq and LeBron (two BIG ones), every other Laker Great in their history was acquired through the draft or via trade. It's tough for ANY team (not just Lakers) to get Free Agents.
3) Lakers have ALWAYS been a family-run business that always found ways to cut corners financially, ever since the Dr Buss days. Yet, here we are. Still more championship successful than all these deep-pocket owners like Ballmer, Cuban or Allen who broke the bank for their teams.
4) Don't even know what to respond to this because how way off it is. Lakers have always been about STARS (plural).
Positives:
1) Lakers will have LeBron and Westbrook coming off the books at the same time, two huge contracts which will allow for future flexibility. Maybe LeBron is willing to take a paycut to bring in a third star, or we simply move on from him. Maybe we can trade Westbrook's expiring K to a team looking to shed salary. People keep saying that the Lakers are not a prime destination for stars anymore but again in the last 10+ years we've gotten Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, CP3 (vetoed), LeBron, AD, Westbrook, Steve Nash. And that's not counting guys that wanted to come here but ended up not doing so for other reasons that have nothing to do with "herp derp, Lakers brand sucks" (Kawhi, Paul George, DeRozan, Lowry etc.) I swear, Laker fans are so entitled and spoiled they don't see how much better they have it than the rest of the league, despite certain mistakes.
2) Last half-decade the Lakers have totally transformed their scouting staff to be one of the best in the league at drafting and finding hidden 2nd round gems, which they were never known for (Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, DLo, Caruso, Reeves, Jordan Clarkson, Kuzma, THT, Hart, Zubac, Larry Nance Jr., Mo Wagner, Thomas Bryant). |
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troy
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 4975
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, I can tell you this, assuming that both AD and Lebron were on cruise control, as they often suggest, then we should see them in playoff mode come postseason. Westbrook will have gotten used to his teammates, and learned from his mistakes, Reaves and Nunn will have gelled by then. An of course, we have playoff Rondo.
A focused and healthy trio of AD/Lebron/RW can be devastating in a spoiler role. In addition, I'm not so afraid of the western conference. The Warriors will be a question mark, but assuming Klay is still getting his rhythm, and Curry has a couple of bad shooting games, the Warriors are vulnerable, especially in the interior. The Suns are only as good as the close-out defense is bad. With Ariza, maybe a motivated THT, or a trade for a 3/D, we can meet the challenge of the Suns outside attack. We had them figured out last season, so there's that. No one else in the West is a true threat.
So, assuming health, playoff focus, RW playing IN CONTROL, and a resurgent Ariza and another 3/D player, the Lakers may have a chance at coming out of the west. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Can someone provide hope for the future? |
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| windycitycane wrote: | This has been, thus far, one of the worst years since 2013 for Laker basketball.
No one is happy, we blew up a championship team who won only 14 months ago.
What do you think next year and beyond looks like? Who is here, who is gone, what do our draft picks look like?
Is there hope we aren’t insignificant for years to come?
Go Lakers! |
It will all depend on how well AD recovers and what free agents we can recruit after the Lebron era ends.
After Lebron leaves, I think the odds of having an immediate and painless rebuild where we are genuine contenders are pretty small, but who knows? Things can go a lot of different directions.
At this moment, our future assets (in terms of draft picks and young players) are weak, but that change quickly. |
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krisobe
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3309
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Heres hope. Lakers aim for that coveted 6th seed in West. IMO the best position they can finish REALISTICALLY.
Jazz first round. 3v6 . Then payback against Suns 2nd round if we pull off an upset first round. Then Warriors in west finals.
1) Get some chemistry right after all star break.
2) Finish 6th seed.
3) Everyone healthy going into playoffs.
4) LeBron is motivated, healthy, and MAD.
5) Jazz 1st round, Suns 2nd round, Warriors 3rd round...
Bread & Butter lineup is... WB, MONK, ARIZA, BRON, AD .
Nunn, Ellington, Melo, Dwight bench. 4 man bench rotation. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: |
1) Last ten years alone we've seen LeBron (THREE TIMES), Durant (TWICE), Kawhi (TWICE), Harden (TWICE), Paul George (TWICE), Kyrie (TWICE), CP3 (FOUR TIMES), AD, Westbrook (3 times), Dwight Howard (8 TIMES!!!), Pau Gasol (4 times), Lamarcus Aldridge (2 times), Kevin Love, Demar DeRozan (2 times), Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, etc. etc. etc. move from their original teams. Everybody keeps pushing this narrative that the CBA is somehow meant to keep star players from leaving in free agency, but yet there's still been a lot of All-star movement the last decade (probably more than EVER). They either leave in free agency or they get their bag and push their way out of an unfavorable situation. |
The way I'd put it: the current CBA encourages stars to extend with their current team after they rookie contract ends. After that, they often push to be traded when they extension is coming to an end (sometimes successfully, sometimes not) and they often leap from team to team in the last half of their career.
It's not likely you'll land a true 23-year-old superstar free agent like we did with Shaq. They now tend to be pushing 30.
I also get the impression that teams are less likely to be pressured by a star demanding a trade. They are more likely to cross their arms and wait for a good deal. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | 2) Last half-decade the Lakers have totally transformed their scouting staff to be one of the best in the league at drafting and finding hidden 2nd round gems, which they were never known for (Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, DLo, Caruso, Reeves, Jordan Clarkson, Kuzma, THT, Hart, Zubac, Larry Nance Jr., Mo Wagner, Thomas Bryant). |
Well . . . the only actual second rounders on that like are Clarkson, THT, Zubac, and Bryant. This is relevant because we don't have a lot of first round picks in coming years. Caruso and Reaves are undrafted success stories, but that's pretty hard to replicate.
It's painful to see how little we got back for those good second round picks. Clarkson, Zubac, and Bryant were all just salary dumps, while THT got a bloated contract as we wait to see if he'll develop into anything. Caruso was basically dumped, too. It makes you wonder whether the ability to pick out players in the second round actually has any meaningful value for a team like the Lakers.
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | This season is all about being healthy come playoffs. We wont win it all but lets see what we can do.
What im curious about is Summer 2023.
When Bron, THT -- everyone but AD is off the books -- who do we target? |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: |
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It’s all up how Klutch/Lakers handle this marriage.
Klutch/LeGM has already been divorced 3 times…including twice to the same partner.
We will find out if they work to save the marriage or if history repeats itself. Although this time LeGM doesn’t seem to be the young, attractive bachelor that he once was. Not as many suitors imo…knowing that it would be at most a 1-2 year marriage and leave that partner in shambles like the rest. It might not be worth it but this time around lol. |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4568
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | We're the Lakers.
We won a championship 14 months ago.
We have excellent scouting -- and we found a new Caruso in Austin Reaves.
Westbrook expires after next season.
We have AD locked up.
We have THT who is an appreciating asset IMO.
Nunn, if healthy, on the books for 5m next year is good value.
We will have our MLE this offseason.
We will get some buy out guys.
We're only a few games out of the 4 seed even while sucking.
We have a better record than the Celtics. |
Noicceeee  |
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Batguano
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | 2) Last half-decade the Lakers have totally transformed their scouting staff to be one of the best in the league at drafting and finding hidden 2nd round gems, which they were never known for (Randle, Ingram, Lonzo, DLo, Caruso, Reeves, Jordan Clarkson, Kuzma, THT, Hart, Zubac, Larry Nance Jr., Mo Wagner, Thomas Bryant). |
Well . . . the only actual second rounders on that like are Clarkson, THT, Zubac, and Bryant. This is relevant because we don't have a lot of first round picks in coming years. Caruso and Reaves are undrafted success stories, but that's pretty hard to replicate.
It's painful to see how little we got back for those good second round picks. Clarkson, Zubac, and Bryant were all just salary dumps, while THT got a bloated contract as we wait to see if he'll develop into anything. Caruso was basically dumped, too. It makes you wonder whether the ability to pick out players in the second round actually has any meaningful value for a team like the Lakers. |
I was making a comment about their overall scouting/drafting INCLUDING 2nd round gems. But hey, nitcpick all you want. |
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